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can I attack a thief?

ateamer said:
California Penal Code section 198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
----------
Given that this is very longstanding law in California (despite what know-it-alls who don't actually know the law might keep as closely held beliefs), there had to be more to the Stockton story. 198.5 is very clear.
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Yeah, good luck arguing that on either side of it. There's plenty of "case law" that has gone both ways on this. So as for it being "perfectly clear" in any sense of the matter, is just a clearly mistaken way to think. You can copy and paste that written law as much as you want. That doesn't change the fact that there is 2 sides to it. Those being the spirit, and the letter of said law. Remember it's not OUR position to interpret said law. And even worse, it's usually up to a jury (biased, stupid, etc...) to decide the application of said law to your situation.

It's sad really. That defending your life and property, from your own property, could land you in jail.
 
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...they make silencers for many reasons and the OP question falls under those reasons! Iv even got a sign up in my backyard that states "WE DONT DIAL 911"!! ...thats southern hospitality for you!
 
Dopesick said:
Yeah, good luck arguing that on either side of it. There's plenty of "case law" that has gone both ways on this. So as for it being "perfectly clear" in any sense of the matter, is just a clearly mistaken way to think. You can copy and paste that written law as much as you want. That doesn't change the fact that there is 2 sides to it. Those being the spirit, and the letter of said law. Remember it's not OUR position to interpret said law. And even worse, it's usually up to a jury (biased, stupid, etc...) to decide the application of said law to your situation.

It's sad really. That defending your life and property, from your own property, could land you in jail.
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+1, Published case law always trumps statutory law and it is a complex issue. In general, people can defend themselves with equal levels of force that is used against them. Police can go one higher.

Example, if someone is attacking me with hands/feet, I can generally use a baton while a private person might not necessarily be ok taking a baseball bat to the attacker. However, in your own house it is generally more acceptable to use more force to protect yourself than out in public. That doesn't mean you can shoot an unarmed intruder. If that intruder tried to attack you while unarmed in your house, a baseball bat might be reasonable. If the same intruder backed you into a bedroom and came after you with a bat or kitchen chair and you had no reasonable means of escape, shooting him would probably be justified.
 
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man officer i heard a loud bang and when i opened my door this guy fell into my house,looks as though he had been shot in the back.
no i didnt touch him, that blood trail from my smashed window must of been him trying to get away from the bad guys.:teeth.
 
vought said:
Good way to get your dogs destroyed. Think before you act.
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If MY dog's are in MY yard, and there are signs stating beware of dog's. Someone then decides to come into my yard and act aggressively towards them, then dogs are going to do what dogs do...

I believe I would be at minimal liability. And since there would be no record up to that point in time of the dogs being aggressive. It would most likely be a non-issue.
 
just put a knife in his hand, & explain:

"gee officer, I saw that knife & he started to come at me with it. So I just had to put 10 .45 holes in his head. He was still twitching on the last few so I gave him a few extra to make sure he couldn't get up & attack me."
 
Burning1 said:
I've learned that even if you are 100% in the right, and 100% protected by law, being taken to court can still fuck up your life.
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This :thumbup

The wheels of justice don't just grind slow, they grind anybody not professionally engaged by it :thumbdown The time and cost of defending yourself can be ruinous :(

That said, 2 years ago I was run off the road (on my bike) by a wack job in a Honda Civic, who then ran the car in front of me off the road and harrassed several others. The car in front and I followed him for several miles, made a citizens arrest and handed him over to the CHP. :thumbup

Then I went home and got a total bollocking from my wife after she asked the obvious question "how did you know he didn't have a gun?". That one question took the shit eating grin right off my face in a hurry. In hindsight it could easily have ended very badly for me.
 
Shoot him.... Pull the bullet out..... Slice off his penis and sever it in his mouth.... Now you know my actions on any human... A sim PULL M-O.
Gotta enter my world and now you are in big trouble I don't care! Wasn't IT "Your move" fella!
 
I took an allegiance to the flag of the US of A. That means to protect and serve LOL
 
radio start me amr code 2 for 5150
 
peniserved said:
Shoot him.... Pull the bullet out..... Slice off his penis and sever it in his mouth.... Now you know my actions on any human... A sim PULL M-O.
Gotta enter my world and now you are in big trouble I don't care! Wasn't IT "Your move" fella!
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peniserved said:
I took an allegiance to the flag of the US of A. That means to protect and serve LOL
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:wtf

Okay, who's alternate account is this? No, seriously...
 
peniserved said:
Shoot him.... Pull the bullet out..... Slice off his penis and sever it in his mouth.... Now you know my actions on any human... A sim PULL M-O.
Gotta enter my world and now you are in big trouble I don't care! Wasn't IT "Your move" fella!
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:frankie :blah We've just been penis served.

:facepalm
 
ateamer said:
California Penal Code section 198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
----------
Given that this is very longstanding law in California (despite what know-it-alls who don't actually know the law might keep as closely held beliefs), there had to be more to the Stockton story. 198.5 is very clear.
Click to expand...

Not to pile on, but I highlighted perhaps the most important word in this statute for the purposes of this discussion. All this statute does is shift the burden of proof.

You can use deadly force inside or outside of your house if you hold a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self of someone else. If you are outside your house, it is up to you to prove you had the reasonable fear; if you are inside the house, you get the statutory presumption, and the state has to prove you did not have a reasonable fear.

Point being, it's just a presumption that can be overcome with evidence. So if there is evidence that a reasonable person in your situation -- even in your own house -- would not have been in fear for your life, P.C. 198.5 does nothing for you.
 
orbframe said:
not in california. you cannot use force to defend your property... just your person.

if you see someone tampering with your bike and you just walk up and clock them with a baseball bat you're going to prison.
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thats where texas has it right....
 
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