Can millennials save the motorcycle industry?

[Z3n]

Hmmmm,if you went to college and have a student loan, that's all on you and not someone else as you were trying to imply with some cool actor person.

And there is a movement among millennials to have their federal student loans forgiven......really.....why,how responsible of them.

The one valid point you make is that motorcycling in this country is not considered a viable form of alternative transportation. The reason, I believe, for this is because this country never was bombed out during WWII.

Ducati was a electronics manufacter before WWII, but the plant got bombed out and they started making small cc bikes to help get people moving.

And as for your comment about older generation can't see the forest for the trees, well you can stick that one up yor ass.

Yes, how responsible of them to ask for the same hand up their parents and grandparents got. College degrees are needed for participation in the modern economy based on the expectations of their parents.

And aww, are you mad about the sweeping generalizations about your generation? Don't you worry yourself, I'm sure you're one of the good ones.

 

[clutchslip]

Yes, how responsible of them to ask for the same hand up their parents and grandparents got. College degrees are needed for participation in the modern economy based on the expectations of their parents.

And aww, are you mad about the sweeping generalizations about your generation? Don't you worry yourself, I'm sure you're one of the good ones.

What same hand-up? Previous generations didn't get student loan forgiveness, except for a handful of minority students. REPOST: It took my wife and myself over twelve years to pay off student loans. And I ain't no young punk, like budman.

........
Ever since I saw Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper rocking down the HWY I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be cool. ....

NOOOOOO. After all the work that all those people I knew did to change the image of motorcycling, and you got started because of the bad image? Oh, god, I hate you.

 

[jwb]

What same hand-up? Previous generations didn't get student loan forgiveness

I see you're making a run at taking Whammy's crown in the stupidest BARF comment contest. When boomers were going to UC the tuition was zero. Not just low but literally zero, nada, nothing. The first year that UC had tuition for California residents was 1975-1976. Boomers got pre-emptive student loan forgiveness, because taxpayers paid their entire bill.

Boomer took the world's strongest economy, with the world's best roads, trains, schools, universities, and airports and privatized all of it for their own benefit. UC tuition is a great example. Another example is public K-12 schools. Berkeley used to have about twice the number of school-age children that they have today, and they had plenty of public schools for all of them. Over the years most of those schools were converted to other uses like community centers, adult schools, etc. The boomers literally took the schools with them as they aged. Today there are not enough desks in Berkeley public schools for all the school children, despite the fact that there are less than half the number of such children that there were in 1960.

Inter-generational war is real, and Boomers fired the first shot. It is totally absurd to say that an older generation handled their own educational costs, because they didn't have any. They didn't bother passing any of that on to their kids and grandkids, though.

 

[Reli]

It's really odd, the bay area is the perfect place to ride and no one is taking advantage of it. It's nice because like you said the community isnt being muddied down and we stay under the radar. Selfishly I like the fact not many people ride and it's a niche, but it doesn't make much sense that more people aren't talking it up. The motorcycle and gear companies seem to be doing ok though, maybe not gangbusters but enough to get by.

Owning a bike comfortably means having a garage to put it in. And that's a problem in the Bay Area. Not only is home ownership low in the Bay Area, but the homes that DO exist are less likely to have a decent-size garage, compared to homes in the Midwest etc.

So even if a Millennial was interested in buying a bike, the realization that it would need to be parked on the street is probably a major discouragement.

When I moved up here from SoCal, I was disappointed, because I noticed a lower ratio of bikes to cars. SoCal is much more into powersports of any kind.

 

[Reli]

Inter-generational war is real, and Boomers fired the first shot. It is totally absurd to say that an older generation handled their own educational costs, because they didn't have any. They didn't bother passing any of that on to their kids and grandkids, though.

Not to mention you could get a factory job right out of high school with no skills (other than knowing the right person).

 

[budman]

....... BUT, he wants to ride so are you going to wait until he leaves and then have one of his friends who owns an MC just toss him the keys and tell him to go for it, or do you want me, on the ninjette, in a parking lot, with full gear on going over and over the basics of operating an MC? Getting him to read the books I have on riding, enrolling him the MSF course, etc etc ..... because he is going to ride a motorcycle.

I totally agree... did she??

Inter-generational war is real, and Boomers fired the first shot. It is totally absurd to say that an older generation handled their own educational costs, because they didn't have any. They didn't bother passing any of that on to their kids and grandkids, though.

I am not sure it was the boomers per say that did what your are saying. I for one did not start college until '77 - some other generation along with some of the oldest boomers were in charge.

I passed on the ability to go to college for my kids. None have any college debt. Two are perhaps going to get some as they chase their masters (that is where I drew the line).

It was a changing world too.. the ever growing Government needed more money to cover things. It continues to suck the living shit out of all of us today.

The Generation war is BS in my opinion. There has always been the "kids these days" stuff and what I am seeing is a leaning towards socialism because of those nasty boomers f'ing their kids and keeping it all for themselves. (not true in my house). The Bernie thing really pointed out how much of society wants their cut and thinks that more stuff should be free.


At this point given how much we are taxed and fee'd and gouged to death for everything that seems like it will eventually become more of a reality than I could ever really agree with. Good thing I will be dead and have left what is left from my boomer grab to my Gen X and Mill kiddo's and of course to the Government because they deserve more of my hard work too.

Super cool thread. I do appreciate seeing all the points, specially from the younger folks here. Thanks!

 

[DataDan]

Motorcycles have never been a substantial part of US transportation. Cars replaced horses and have remained the appliance of choice for 100 years. Today, motorcycles account for 0.7% of vehicle-miles traveled, and that's near the high point of the past 40 years.

In America, motorcycles are recreational vehicles, and nothing is going to change that. For transportation to go to work, to the store, to the movies, to the beach, or to catch a plane, most take the car because it's quiet, comfortable, safe, undemanding, you dress for the destination not the journey, and you can carry as much stuff you need. Not all of us make that choice, of course, but 99% do.

Dedicated motorcyclists may not appreciate the sacrifices they make for their preferred mode of transport. Or maybe they do, but don't understand that the vast majority don't share their enthusiasm for it.

 

[jwb]

It was a changing world too.. the ever growing Government needed more money to cover things. It continues to suck the living shit out of all of us today.

"Ever growing government" spent 19.6% of GDP in 1977 (just to pick the year you mentioned) vs. 20.7% of GDP last year, growing at the whopping fast pace of 0.13% per year over 40 years. Not exactly sucking the air out of our economy.

 

[jwb]

"Ever growing government" spent 19.6% of GDP in 1977 (just to pick the year you mentioned) vs. 20.7% of GDP last year, growing at the whopping fast pace of 0.13% per year over 40 years. Not exactly sucking the air out of our economy.

In the same 40 years the federal debt as fraction of GDP went from 30% to 110%. This is what people mean about freeloading by older generations. They enjoyed the benefit of public spending, but they put it all on a credit card instead of paying for it. Now that it's time for their descendants to benefit from the same public spending, those same people are all like "whoa nelly look at these tax bills". Boomers expect younger generations to pay for all current and past government spending.

 

[budman]

Point taken.

I see what it took to building a house in '77. Now the bureaucracy to get it down is so overwhelming only a few can do it. Spending is not necessarily what I mean. Restrictions, fees and all the fun ways we give more to the Government.

 

[Surj]

College degrees are perceived as needed for easy participation in some parts of the modern economy...

I adjusted your statement to be more truthful. College mostly churns out students that are able to follow playbooks, the knowledge worker equivalent of stereotypical ditch diggers.

For most, it doesn't do much to further instill real smarts, a stomach for truly hard work, critical thinking and an inquisitive mindset... the list goes on, and those are the things that create success. If you want to be a lawyers, sure, you need to do the whole deal, but if you want to be a software developer, designer, marketer—you can make your own breaks by working hard and being good at what you do, not just counting on a degree from a good school to open doors for you.

 

[ariacode]

I adjusted your statement to be more truthful. College mostly churns out students that are able to follow playbooks, the knowledge worker equivalent of stereotypical ditch diggers.

For most, it doesn't do much to further instill real smarts, a stomach for truly hard work, critical thinking and an inquisitive mindset... the list goes on, and those are the things that create success. If you want to be a lawyers, sure, you need to do the whole deal, but if you want to be a software developer, designer, marketer—you can make your own breaks by working hard and being good at what you do, not just counting on a degree from a good school to open doors for you.

+1; well said.

 

[ariacode]

Two wheel riding is not for everyone, I will take this a step further and say that there is a big group of people that should not be even allowed to drive a car.
When I took my MSF class there was a girl there that just wanted to learn to ride a scooter. So, everyone got on a motorcycle, and the instructor found a tiny little scooter for her. At some point we get to an exercise where everyone is suppose to ride around in a circle at constant speed, learn to look where you are going, etc. After a first circle or so, the girl beelines off into the distance, screaming. As she reached the edge of the parking lot she dumped her scooter, but never letting go of the throttle. The whole class watched in complete bewilderment. I guess I should not talk shit, I have done dumber things myself.

I don't think there's a fundamental difference in potential riding skills between an American and, say, an Italian.

But, sure, let's say that not everyone can ride or will want to ride. The scoot-to-bus route can be an "express line" for those that want to use it.

 

[Will Farnaby]

Great thread. Much more interesting than the "them no good milllennials" deals that these kind of conversations typically devolve into.

It would be foolish to claim to have some kind of grasp on the culture of the upcoming generation; I only experience my own microscopic slice of the pie. I will say that as a 42 yo gen Xer, much of the behavior I see from young people is a mystery to me. I deal with a lot of young people, in my work and my school; it's a challenge. I know it's typical for the outgoing generation to be suspicious and confused by the upcoming generations behavior, but this shift/divide seems very real to me. I am very grateful to of grown up when I did. Being adventurous was celebrated and pursued. We rode BMX, skate boarded, had fist fights. We cracked our heads, chipped our teeth, and broke our bones. I know a bunch of thirty year olds who were so fucking coddled in their youth that they don't even know how to ride a bike, because god forbid your little prince should eat shit and skin his knees in the learning process. It's no wonder that so many millennials are suspicious of motorcycles.

I see a lot of millennials shitting on the idea of working a forty+ hour week and raising a family, because they want to do something else, something "better". I applaud that, as I myself have taken the path less traveled in life. But what i see is a bunch of adults living at home, sponging off their parents, working part time at the Apple store, or Starbucks, or whatever, playing video games, and spending their paychecks on music festivals, craft beer, and artisanal coffee. There is no shame in the culture any longer. To live at home was a source of great shame when I was a young adult. Now it's standard. People complain "Oh my god, houses cost so much, blah blah blah." Well here's an idea: Get out of the most expensive region in the country, and start a life somewhere else. Previous generations have uprooted and moved not just across the country, but across the world in order to build a life. Somehow Bay Area millennials seem to think that living here is their birth right.
Motorcycle will die out in this country in the next two generations, along with all other user controlled vehicles. The toothpaste has left the tube with Uber, this is the direction of future American transportation. End rant.

NOW GET OFFA MA LAWN YA NO GOOD MILLANIMALS!!!

 

[951dude]

I see a lot of millennials shitting on the idea of working a forty+ hour week and raising a family, because they want to do something else, something "better". I applaud that, as I myself have taken the path less traveled in life. But what i see is a bunch of adults living at home, sponging off their parents, working part time at the Apple store, or Starbucks, or whatever, playing video games, and spending their paychecks on music festivals, craft beer, and artisanal coffee. There is no shame in the culture any longer. To live at home was a source of great shame when I was a young adult. Now it's standard. People complain "Oh my god, houses cost so much, blah blah blah." Well here's an idea: Get out of the most expensive region in the country, and start a life somewhere else. Previous generations have uprooted and moved not just across the country, but across the world in order to build a life. Somehow Bay Area millennials seem to think that living here is their birth right.

So much this!

I've tried and failed to get several millennials in the family steady careers (not just jobs). They refuse to wake up at 5 am for a job that offers a company car and six figure income within 5 years guaranteed. The'y would rather wake up around noon, work a part time job, and play video games all night or go out and see every cool show there is.

I can't even go to the movies with them because if I don't go opening night they will have already seen it.

I talked to a sixteen year old the other day...for the few minutes I could get him to ignore his phone...he doesn't have any desire to own a car. He couldn't even understand the concept of freedom from home.

-fellow Gen X-er

 

[GAJ]

Interesting turn to the thread but I must say that my 32 year old daughter, her b/f and their friends are all intelligent and hard working.

I do think my generation are a bunch of cowards for passing off so much debt to future generations but at the same time my daughter's friends think taxes are too high as well so sooner or later some grownups have to run this State/Country and make some hard decisions such as making people like myself pay more .

I work around that by leaving an average of $8000/year in the pockets of the tenants in our three rentals by not being a fucking asshole landlord squeezing out every last dime..

My tenants are all working folk; daughter and b/f work for the County, but other two tenants work in the restaurant business so you know that they bust their ass for not enough pay.

As to motorcycles I think it is great that the manufacturers finally wised up to the fact that you are not going to attract new riders by having a great 200hp Superbike or a $30,000 cruiser.

Liking the new little bikes.

Still don't regret getting rid of my literbike when I got my little DRZ400SM.

 

[rsrider]

I totally agree... did she??

My logic was sound and she did agree with it, but she's still not letting him ride, yet.......I don't press her on anything because she becomes belligerent, and she wonders where her daughter gets it from.

 

[Will Farnaby]

So much this!

I've tried and failed to get several millennials in the family steady careers (not just jobs). They refuse to wake up at 5 am for a job that offers a company car and six figure income within 5 years guaranteed. The'y would rather wake up around noon, work a part time job, and play video games all night or go out and see every cool show there is.

I can't even go to the movies with them because if I don't go opening night they will have already seen it.

I talked to a sixteen year old the other day...for the few minutes I could get him to ignore his phone...he doesn't have any desire to own a car. He couldn't even understand the concept of freedom from home.

-fellow Gen X-er

You touched on an interesting point in regards to freedom from home.

Growing up, my peer group COULD NOT WAIT to get out of our parents house. Why? Because our parents had rules that hampered our lifestyle. If you wanted to behave like a young pirate in training, you sure as fuck weren't going to do it in the old man's house, no way.

Our gen (gen x) made the terrible mistake of trying to be their kids best buddy, rather than authoritarian role models.
Our gen carefully blew cig smoke out the bathroom window while everyone was asleep. This gen smokes weed with their parents and openly bangs their boyfriend/girlfriend in the house while the folks are home.

Our gen removed any kind of resistance/discomfort that their children might experience. In theory, it should have created a gentler, more compassionate, more caring society. But much of what I see is a group of young people who have a complete fucking melt down at the first sign of push back or adversity. "OMG, my boss called me lazy and made me feel bad for being late three times this week, she's picking on me, WAAAAA, I quit!!"
"My professor said my work was sloppy and irrelevant to the assignment, WAAAA, FIX IT MOM!"
Don't even get me started on the bullying bullshit...

I know I come off as bitter, but I'm truly not. I'm confused, fascinated, and a bit concerned, but not bitter. I am very curious as to what the future holds.

 

[movadosan]

Every generation has their fair share of people who we perceive as "slackers". Every generation also has very hard-working, goodhearted people. I think the problem is that we notice the bad more than the good and all it takes is a few bad eggs to validate your observations.

Let's stop using the word Millennial altogether. It's a terrible term and it unfairly lumps all "younger" people together and labels them as lazy and entitled brats. It just feels like a form of ageism, which can be just as bad as racism and sexism.

 

[clutchslip]

I see you're making a run at taking Whammy's crown in the stupidest BARF comment contest.

Who the hell are you to talk to me or Whammy like that?
Everyone didn't go to a damn "free" college. And it is never "free". Someone pays.

You are so full of your own bitter juice you can't see straight. There were fees before 1977. And the California State Government only paid 32% of tuition in '74. Who do you think paid the rest? And I am trying to figure out how boomers stole your money when they were in grade school. Here, learn something: http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/

And just check out this site because it's easy to see real tax rates, instead of the stuff you post. Stop manipulating information to suit your agenda, please.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/total_2017USpt_18ps5n Or you can look here, if you are smart enough: https://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&step=1&isuri=1


Thanks Budman for allowing people to talk like this to the rest of us. You are a champ!