Can We ALL Stop Using Money?

[JakesKTM]

I will return to this topic tomorrow. Today I am taking the kids to six flags. Unfortunately six flags doesn't need any dishwashers so I cant trade admission fee.

 

[flying_hun]

communism works perfectly in a simulation. communism doesnt work at all in the real world.

What does that have to do with whether or not one uses currency?

 

[packnrat]

if there is no money????

how am i going to buy fuel for the bike????


here are five chickens for each gallon of gas????

 

[Killroy1999]

Money is a form of technology allowing specialization and new business. Its nessasary for an other technology which makes our lives better and brings us lots of toys.

Post-peakers do encourage local currency and trade because abworld wide currency is subject to deflation.

 

[injun]

There is a place in Indonesia where NO ONE is allowed to go so the tribe is not subject to the out side world .

 

[justanotherg20]

Ok, short form. Money is abstracted labor, value, commodity, property. It's how we deal with exchange in a large complicated society. Without units of exchange we will get along fine, just forget anything more complicated than a village too large to be run by one man.

Pretty much. Not sure if this topic is about specifically money, or how economies work in general, but IMO the key advantage of money is that it doesn't really matter what sort of condition it's in.

If you agree to, say, paint my house for six chickens what happens if one of my chickens is sickly? Can I really pay my electric bill with perishables like milk, and how then does PG&E pay its workers? With day-old dairy products?

Conversely, money is standardized. A crinkled and slightly-torn $20 bill spends every bit as well as a brand new one and it's easier to carry around.

 

[kevin 714]

Pretty much. Not sure if this topic is about specifically money, or how economies work in general, but IMO the key advantage of money is that it doesn't really matter what sort of condition it's in.

If you agree to, say, paint my house for six chickens what happens if one of my chickens is sickly? Can I really pay my electric bill with perishables like milk, and how then does PG&E pay its workers? With day-old dairy products?

Conversely, money is standardized. A crinkled and slightly-torn $20 bill spends every bit as well as a brand new one and it's easier to carry around.

this is emphatically not the case in much of the world. the condition of the money very much matters and smal tears will make it unusable

 

[renxianqiclone]

On what land could you grow your own food? On what land could you keep animals and livestock? How would you build this cabin, And it would be illegal to do so without permits.

If this was your land, that you somehow didn't pay for, who pays the property taxes? If you lived in a van, it needs to be legally insured and registered.


Every single capitalistic society, every single democracy, is built on a slave class foundation. The USA just outsourced that in the modern era, and hides it from you.

Your (our) prospering is utterly predicated on the suffering of others. You think the Sheridan way of life is based in freedom? It's based on massive control and enslavement of people's elsewhere.

Touché

But I would also have to add that every civilization in history has had social stratification, from ancient clan chieftains to corporate CEOs. They all have a "slave" caste, be it ancient or modern.

 

[Eldritch]

What does that have to do with whether or not one uses currency?

The Communist utopia has consistently been the most popular model of a currency free society. Everyone works to the best of their ability and everyone gets what they need to live classless in relative comfort.

It is the lie the Reds sell you before the killing starts.

 

[kevin 714]

I don't think there's anyway to have a society as we know it, currency free. Mostly because modem western society and money rose together. They're required.


There's been Tons of monetary free societies in human evolution and lots of far less stratified ones, but to go to those requires an entirely different model of life

 

[flying_hun]

The Communist utopia has consistently been the most popular model of a currency free society. Everyone works to the best of their ability and everyone gets what they need to live classless in relative comfort.

It is the lie the Reds sell you before the killing starts.

There was no medium of exchange in communist nations? Really?

 

[kevin 714]

Truthfully there's never really been a fully communist country. And every country that's tried it has distorted Marx' writings badly, ignoring essential steps and ideas

 

[flying_hun]

Truthfully there's never really been a fully communist country. And every country that's tried it has distorted Marx' writings badly, ignoring essential steps and ideas

So in theory there's no money in communist countries, but in every communist country actually observed there has been money? By all means, let's throw out any data that disagrees with the predictions of the theory.

 

[JakesKTM]

Originally I started this thread from the curiosity of whether we could ALL stop using money and what that would look like... again it is a redundant topic.
Based on the responses it appears my question was too ambiguous around the idea of monetary exchange, perhaps making it harder for some folks to wrap their head around the idea of money being a barrier to evolution.

If we ALL stopped using money at the same time, the obvious consequence would be economic collapse and evolution of society and species. It cannot willingly be done for reasons others have stated here, no more modern conveniences/toys and life would revert to something between agrarian life and horticultural life using barter and trade for exchange of services/goods.

Personally I believe this is where we are headed eventually when oil scarcity really kicks in and hyperinflation puts all manufacturing out of business. I suppose they will try and rip the polar ice caps off looking for oil, but by then maybe the costs will simply force us to…..stop…consuming. No need for money.

I think any carbon based manufacturing, which is pretty much everything, will be cost prohibitive and we will see a return to local economy and trade. I can’t imagine this fossil fuel thingy can go on for much longer.

 

[JakesKTM]

The Communist utopia has consistently been the most popular model of a currency free society. Everyone works to the best of their ability and everyone gets what they need to live classless in relative comfort.

It is the lie the Reds sell you before the killing starts.

You are stuck in the McCarthy era. Karl Marx was dead wrong about communism and dead right about capitalism.

 

[Terminal G]

Two words: Karl Marx.

 

[JakesKTM]

Two words: Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

fixed

 

[Eldritch]

You are stuck in the McCarthy era. Karl Marx was dead wrong about communism and dead right about capitalism.

Absoloutly NOTHING I said was historically incorrect. Don't know what Capitalism has to do with it, Capitalism uses currenecy so is not relevant to the conversation and no, you can not have Communism without mass murder.

So in theory there's no money in communist countries, but in every communist country actually observed there has been money? By all means, let's throw out any data that disagrees with the predictions of the theory.

Not necessarily, but as stated it is a model where Government controls commerce rather than supply and demand. Typically nations like the Soviets did use currency, but the Government control of markets makes currency less relevant and more of a coupon system rather than something that you can run a commodiites market with. Since most nations kept a currency of some sort and most also ran profit economies, Communist nations had a to maintain a currency in order to engage in iternational trade. The only way for a Communist model to even begin to realize it's intent is if you kill EVERYONE else working on profit based models. Then you could eneter the more utopian Communist model of, "I have created 32 chickens and 1 goat this month, so I am rewarded by my neighbors with 1 home to live in and 1 communal dining hall seat."

 

[Mike95060]

All the answers we are to afraid to embrace.

[youtube]QbVsvtKstyw[/youtube]

 

[JakesKTM]

All the answers we are to afraid to embrace.

[youtube]QbVsvtKstyw[/youtube]

The only thing technology should be doing is solving the Malthusian catastrophe by getting us to the next planet for life support. That's IT. Money impedes that progress.