CCT Holder Tool on a CBR600RR

[johnkol]

Has anyone used a tool like the K&L CCT Holder in order to retract the CCT on a 2007+ CBR600RR? There is very little clearance between the CCT and the frame of the CBR, so it looks as if the tool will not fit. If anyone has had a positive experience with this (or similar) tool, I would appreciate hearing about it.

 

[Scandalous]

On the 05 I used to have, there was a thread somewhere that had a pic with dimensions showing how to cut your own out of a piece of tin or aluminum. Worked fine for me, although maybe there is less clearance on the 07+ RR.

 

[stangmx13]

I havent found a need for it during a valve adjustment. I had a little hack that I used a few times, essentially the head of a small screwdriver held w/ some vice-grips. more than once, the hack would slip and id find the CCT not retracted. it didn't affect my valve adjustment in any way, the CCT never broke, and the engine still runs great. I honestly I have no idea why the tool exists (nor why the CCT is designed this way).

 

[johnkol]

I have seen the homemade tool to hold the CCT, but you have to remove the CCT first, retract the tensioner with a screwdriver, and hold the plunger with your hand while you insert the tool in order to lock the tensioner. I want to avoid removing the CCT.

I had a little hack that I used a few times, essentially the head of a small screwdriver held w/ some vice-grips. more than once, the hack would slip and id find the CCT not retracted. it didn't affect my valve adjustment in any way, the CCT never broke, and the engine still runs great.

But you have to retract the tensioner before you put everything back together, otherwise the tensioner would be in its most extended position, right? Unfortunately there is not enough space between CCT and frame to insert even the tinniest screwdriver.

In the service manual Honda is showing a tool similar to the K&L, where they instruct you to remove the knurled knob in order to fit in the tight confines, but they don't show how you can then turn the screw without the knob on.

 

[stangmx13]

I have seen the homemade tool to hold the CCT, but you have to remove the CCT first, retract the tensioner with a screwdriver, and hold the plunger with your hand while you insert the tool in order to lock the tensioner. I want to avoid removing the CCT.

But you have to retract the tensioner before you put everything back together, otherwise the tensioner would be in its most extended position, right? Unfortunately there is not enough space between CCT and frame to insert even the tinniest screwdriver.

In the service manual Honda is showing a tool similar to the K&L, where they instruct you to remove the knurled knob in order to fit in the tight confines, but they don't show how you can then turn the screw without the knob on.

ive never removed the CCT on a CBR for a valve adjustment

I said "hack". I literally chopped the tip of a screwdriver off and fashioned something that allowed me to turn it and hold it in place.

I don't know what happens to the CCT. assembly is the normal pain in the ass, with or without something holding the CCT. I also turn the engine by hand a few times before attempting to start. ive never felt any binding or anything.

PM Elskipador. he'll know whether or not all the CCT madness is necessary.

 

[kuksul08]

I know on the CBR 954 I had to drop the engine about an inch or so to access it. It's actually not too bad, just remove 2 bolts and loosen 2 more.

 

[johnkol]

I also did the same hack: inserted a small screwdriver bit and was able to engage the tensioner, but I could not turn that bit in order to retract the plunger.

ElSkipador actually put together an excellent tutorial on how to adjust valves on the CBR, but instead of retracting the tensioner, he completely removed the CCT and replaced it with a manual unit.

I have attempted to enlist ElSkipador's services, but haven't heard back from him.

I know on the CBR 954 I had to drop the engine about an inch or so to access it. It's actually not too bad, just remove 2 bolts and loosen 2 more.

I had not thought of that! Do you need to remove the exhaust in order to rotate the engine?

 

[RVFRick]

Just some thinking out loud having not seen your predicament in person. If I read correctly you can at least insert a bit but cannot easily turn it. Would it help to fashion your own flex shaft using braided cable or soft copper wire, etc. to make a flexible drive that you can turn? Solder the flex shaft to the bit to save space. Or if the torque required is relatively low use a short length of some "flexible but rigid" rubber or plastic tubing slipped over the back end of the bit?

 

[kuksul08]

I also did the same hack: inserted a small screwdriver bit and was able to engage the tensioner, but I could not turn that bit in order to retract the plunger.

ElSkipador actually put together an excellent tutorial on how to adjust valves on the CBR, but instead of retracting the tensioner, he completely removed the CCT and replaced it with a manual unit.

I have attempted to enlist ElSkipador's services, but haven't heard back from him.



I had not thought of that! Do you need to remove the exhaust in order to rotate the engine?

Just the muffler and rotate it down a little bit.

 

[johnkol]

Just some thinking out loud having not seen your predicament in person. If I read correctly you can at least insert a bit but cannot easily turn it. Would it help to fashion your own flex shaft using braided cable or soft copper wire, etc. to make a flexible drive that you can turn?

I'm afraid this won't work: it takes some effort to turn that bit, so anything flexible will not be able to turn it.

I can turn the bit by gripping it from the side with locking pliers, but only by a small amount, and then cannot lock it into place.

I think I'll try removing the CCT completely, and if that fails, rotate the engine a bit downwards.

 

[RVFRick]

I'm afraid this won't work: it takes some effort to turn that bit, so anything flexible will not be able to turn it.

I can turn the bit by gripping it from the side with locking pliers, but only by a small amount, and then cannot lock it into place.

I think I'll try removing the CCT completely, and if that fails, rotate the engine a bit downwards.

Is the goal to fully retract the CCT? Can you tell us why?

Can you get a small ratchet around the bit? Chapman Mfg. makes useful tight quarters tools.

One flex shaft I have around for fixing electronics if from iFixit. Its flex shaft is pretty darn robust (the black stick in the case photo) and the bits in the set are not 1/4" hex. I think they are 4mm hex so more compact.

 

[johnkol]

Is the goal to fully retract the CCT? Can you tell us why?

Can you get a small ratchet around the bit? Chapman Mfg. makes useful tight quarters tools.

One flex shaft I have around for fixing electronics if from iFixit. Its flex shaft is pretty darn robust (the black stick in the case photo) and the bits in the set are not 1/4" hex. I think they are 1/8" hex so more compact.

I need to remove the camshafts in order to change the shims, and if I do that without retracting the CCT, the tensioner will extend all the way once the resistance from the camshafts disappears. That's not a problem per se, but I will have to retract the tensioner before I reinstall the camshafts otherwise the camshafts will not go in with that much tension on the cam chain.

I have a small ratchet like the Chapman, but it is too big for the CCT opening. I had not seen the iFixit tool, but I'll take a picture tomorrow to show how tight the space is and you can let me know if any known tool would work there.

 

[RVFRick]

Can you easily remove the CCT for the valve job? Seems obvious and no special tools needed.

MuiFixit flex shaft has a 1" bend radius.

 

[johnkol]

The opening of the CCT is just 5mm, and the bit I have inserted in there is 3.5mm; it is inserted about half an inch in the CCT, and extends about one inch from the CCT, so it seems that the iFixIt tool would work?

Removing the CCT altogether is tricky: as you can see the bottom bolt is easy to get to, but the upper one can only be accessed from the inside, and it is very tight in there. I'll try this though and see how difficult it is.

 

[kxmike]

might sound like a silly question but...are you turning the adjuster the right direction? I think clockwise is the direction you need to turn it to retract. If that's not the problem I would remove the whole unit then take it apart and clean/lube the internals (it should move easier). Then you'll also have time to come up with a tool that will work better before installing it.

 

[johnkol]

might sound like a silly question but...are you turning the adjuster the right direction? I think clockwise is the direction you need to turn it to retract.

Not a silly question, but yes, I am turning it clockwise. It is turning, but I can only turn it by a very small amount with locking pliers and, most importantly, I cannot lock it into that position.

The K&L tool I showed in my first post has a uni-directional bearing, so when you turn it a little it stays locked in that position, and you can slowly wind up the tensioner all the way. The problem is that I don't know if that tool is short enough to fit in the tight confines of the CBR.

 

[kxmike]

I use a flat blade bit from my tool set that has a larger diameter hex on the outside end (most hardware stores carry them) and I can usually turn it with my fingers and hold it while I get a bolt snugged up on the tensioner body. You should be able to turn that screw by hand... but it would be hard with the small diameter shaft that you are using.

 

[johnkol]

I use a flat blade bit from my tool set that has a larger diameter hex on the outside end (most hardware stores carry them) and I can usually turn it with my fingers and hold it while I get a bolt snugged up on the tensioner body. You should be able to turn that screw by hand... but it would be hard with the small diameter shaft that you are using.

What is the shaft diameter of bit A in that picture?

What do you mean by "snugging a bolt on the tensioner body"? You mean you wedge a bolt in between the tensioner opening and the screwdriver bit so that the bit cannot unwind?

You are correct, the bit I have there is so small, and there is so little room to get a good grip, that I cannot turn it by hand.

 

[stever]

The homemade tool will probably fit within the limits of the frame and CCT and it locks when the tensioner is retracted. It is easily made from a piece of steel shim stock 1mm or .040" thick. It will be at its widest point 15mm and 34mm in length. so starting with your 15mm X 34mm rectangle measure 15mm along the long side and cut equally from both side to leave a 4.5mm wide blade, like a long flat blade screw driver. on the 15mm wide portion remaining make another cut 12mm from the wide end to make a wide step 3mm long and 8.5 mm wide. This part will fit into the the slots you see on the tensioner body. These measurements were originally for the CBR900, TRX300EX and rear cyl band of the VF750C Hondas. You may have to trim slightly with a file but seems to fit lots of Hondas I've used it for. You insert the tool to the first step and turn until the tensioner is retracted. You may have to back it up a little to push the wider stepped part into the slots locking the tensioner. Pull your cams. change out your shims, reinstall cams and release tensioner. Sounds easy huh. Like to iupload the drawing to you but don't have any hosting service at this point. Hope the directions aren't too confusing.

 

[kxmike]

What is the shaft diameter of bit A in that picture?

What do you mean by "snugging a bolt on the tensioner body"? You mean you wedge a bolt in between the tensioner opening and the screwdriver bit so that the bit cannot unwind?

You are correct, the bit I have there is so small, and there is so little room to get a good grip, that I cannot turn it by hand.

unsure of the diameter (I'm at work)..but the hex end is around 1/4 inch.
"snugging the bolt in the tensioner" refers to removing the tensioner then putting the driver in and retracting the pusher then holding it as you put the tensioner in and secure it with a bolt...at that point you can let go of the adjuster...sometimes I put a 1/4 socket on the end of the driver which makes it even easier to hold.