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Child booster seat laws?

M

msethhunter

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Location
SoCal
Moto(s)
'98 VTR1000F, she's a fatty! '89 YSR 50 with a 150, she said "it's so cute!"
Name
Mikey
A few qiestions that I couldn't find the answer to.

I drive a truck. I have two kids. My son meets the requirements as far as I can tell to not need a booster seat anymore. My daughter doesn't. She is only 4. With both of them in the truck, is it allowable to have my daughter sitting in the middle seat, to which there is only a lap belt with no booster seat? Seems like the intent of the law is to provide the booster seat so the shoulder strap is properly positioned. With no shoulder strap, it would also seem that that exempts the requirement for a booster.

Thanks.
 
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msethhunter said:
That was one of the places I visited. But it doesn't answer my question. And I can't find the code to reference. The law was created for shoulder straps fitting properly with smaller children from what I remember.

edit: I also looked here.
Click to expand...

Yes, it actually does answer your question.

As of January 1, 2012, all children must ride in car seat or booster seat until they are at least 8 years old or at least 4 feet 9 inches tall.
Click to expand...
 
ctwo said:
The second part of his question was whether a booster is required with just a lap belt. Or, can he put his 4 year old in a booster with just a lap belt in the center?

I say no.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I realize that. But the part where it says "all children must ride in car seat or booster seat until they are at least 8 years old or at least 4 feet 9 inches tall" does answer the question and doesn't allow for any exceptions. So a 4-year-old would still need to be in a car seat or booster seat. If something else was allowed the law would list exceptions, like it does for allowing kids to ride in the front seat.
 
So it seems the question is: Is it legal to have a child in a booster seat with only a lap belt even if the booster seat is designed for use with a lap belt? Sounds like he has a bench seat truck with shoulder belts for driver/passenger, lap only for third passenger, and wants to put the younger kid between him and the older one. I'd want to do this too because I'd want easier access to the younger kid and (though it may be an illusion) it would feel safer with the younger one in the middle. Is it legal? Lots of trucks out there like this good question.

My youngest got out of her booster last May. Glad THAT'S over.....
 
bojangle said:
Yeah, I realize that. But the part where it says "all children must ride in car seat or booster seat until they are at least 8 years old or at least 4 feet 9 inches tall" does answer the question and doesn't allow for any exceptions. So a 4-year-old would still need to be in a car seat or booster seat. If something else was allowed the law would list exceptions, like it does for allowing kids to ride in the front seat.
Click to expand...

But that's not the code as it is written, which I am having g a hard time finding. Do you know what the code you would you to write a ticket is?


Towit, my daughter meets all of the requirements in the middle seat only, without a booster seat.

She sits all the way back, her knees are bent and feet touching the transmission tunnel, and the seat belt is low around her hips.

She meets the intent of the law, which is why I asked the question, and wanted clarification. It was written to address the improper location of the shoulder strap on small children(around the neck). With no shoulder strap, she seems to meet the criteria.
 
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So you can see the conundrum. The LEO's of this forum, from the sounds of it, would likely write me a ticket for having my daughter in the middle seat (only option), with no booster seat. Yet the NHTSA says "DON'T DO IT!"
 
ctwo said:
Why can't you get a 5-point car seat that works with a lap belt only?

I think technically, you can get away with your boy in the middle, but that until 16 years old might have some obscure requirement.

I had the codes up last night and was looking for the def of approved restraint system...

Here is the main code:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=27001-28000&file=27360-27368


The part I was looking for:
Click to expand...


I'd love to have my son in the middle. But he's to big to fit there already and it impedes driving.
 
ctwo said:
Why can't you get a 5-point car seat that works with a lap belt only?

I think technically, you can get away with your boy in the middle, but that until 16 years old might have some obscure requirement.

I had the codes up last night and was looking for the def of approved restraint system...

Here is the main code:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=27001-28000&file=27360-27368


The part I was looking for:
Click to expand...


I'd love to have my son in the middle. But he's to big to fit there already and it impedes driving. She's also to big for a child seat. I think that's what you are referring to with the 5 point.
 
msethhunter said:
But that's not the code as it is written, which I am having g a hard time finding. Do you know what the code you would you to write a ticket is?


Towit, my daughter meets all of the requirements in the middle seat only, without a booster seat.

She sits all the way back, her knees are bent and feet touching the transmission tunnel, and the seat belt is low around her hips.

She meets the intent of the law, which is why I asked the question, and wanted clarification. It was written to address the improper location of the shoulder strap on small children(around the neck). With no shoulder strap, she seems to meet the criteria.
Click to expand...

She does? Your 4-year-old is 4'9" or taller?

Here is the child car seat law (age 0 to 8) and the child seat belt law (age 8 to 16). Those are the sections an officer could cite for.

27360(a) VC Except as provided in Section 27363, a parent, legal
guardian, or driver shall not transport on a highway in a motor
vehicle, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section
27315, a child or ward who is under eight years of age, without
properly securing that child in a rear seat in an appropriate child
passenger restraint system meeting applicable federal motor vehicle
safety standards.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a driver if the parent or
legal guardian of the child is also present in the motor vehicle and
is not the driver.


27360.5(a) VC A parent, legal guardian, or driver shall not
transport on a highway in a motor vehicle, as defined in paragraph
(1) of subdivision (c) of Section 27315, a child or ward who is eight
years of age or older, but less than 16 years of age, without
properly securing that child or ward in an appropriate child
passenger restraint system or safety belt meeting applicable federal
motor vehicle safety standards.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a driver if the parent or
legal guardian of the child is also present in the motor vehicle and
is not the driver.
Click to expand...

Here are the exceptions to the law.

27363(a) VC The court may exempt from the requirements of this
article any class of child by age, weight, or size if it is
determined that the use of a child passenger restraint system would
be impractical by reason of physical unfitness, medical condition, or
size. The court may require satisfactory proof of the child's
physical unfitness, medical condition, or size and that an
appropriate special needs child passenger restraint system is not
available.
(b) In case of a life-threatening emergency, or when a child is
being transported in an authorized emergency vehicle, if there is no
child passenger restraint system available, a child may be
transported without the use of that system, but the child shall be
secured by a seatbelt.
(c) A child weighing more than 40 pounds may be transported in the
backseat of a vehicle while wearing only a lap safety belt when the
backseat of the vehicle is not equipped with a combination lap and
shoulder safety belt.
(d) Notwithstanding Section 27360, a child or ward under eight
years of age who is four feet nine inches in height or taller may be
properly restrained by a safety belt, as defined in paragraph (2) of
subdivision (d) of Section 27315, rather than by a child passenger
restraint system.
(e) Notwithstanding Section 27360, a child or ward under eight
years of age may ride properly secured in an appropriate child
passenger restraint system meeting applicable federal motor vehicle
safety standards in the front seat of a motor vehicle under any of
the following circumstances:
(1) There is no rear seat.
(2) The rear seats are side-facing jump seats.
(3) The rear seats are rear-facing seats.
(4) The child passenger restraint system cannot be installed
properly in the rear seat.
(5) All rear seats are already occupied by children seven years of
age or under.
(6) Medical reasons necessitate that the child or ward not ride in
the rear seat. The court may require satisfactory proof of the child'
s medical condition.
(f) Notwithstanding subdivision (e), a child shall not be
transported in a rear-facing child passenger restraint system in the
front seat of a motor vehicle that is equipped with an active frontal
passenger airbag.
Click to expand...
 
bojangle said:
She does? Your 4-year-old is 4'9" or taller?

Here is the child car seat law (age 0 to 8) and the child seat belt law (age 8 to 16). Those are the sections an officer could cite for.



Here are the exceptions to the law.
Click to expand...

That's what I was looking for. That vehicle code. According to everything that had been posted, she met the requirements, until that. The problem is, it conflicts with the NHTSA, because it doesn't address lap belts only, and the NHTSA says don't use booster seats with only lap belts. So I'm still left with the question.
 
msethhunter said:
That's what I was looking for. That vehicle code. According to everything that had been posted, she met the requirements, until that. The problem is, it conflicts with the NHTSA, because it doesn't address lap belts only, and the NHTSA says don't use booster seats with only lap belts. So I'm still left with the question.
Click to expand...

Sounds like what you would need to do then is to keep her in a booster seat in the right passenger seat and have your son sit in the middle.

If you kept her in the middle seat with a booster, you shouldn't likely get a ticket, but according to NHTSA that wouldn't be safe. If you put her in the middle without a car seat or booster seat you'd be risking the possibility of a ticket if stopped. Plus, it still might not be all that safe either.
 
bojangle said:
Sounds like what you would need to do then is to keep her in a booster seat in the right passenger seat and have your son sit in the middle.

If you kept her in the middle seat with a booster, you shouldn't likely get a ticket, but according to NHTSA that wouldn't be safe. If you put her in the middle without a car seat or booster seat you'd be risking the possibility of a ticket if stopped. Plus, it still might not be all that safe either.
Click to expand...

But I like my son better than my daughter!

(totally kidding)
 
bojangle said:
27363...

(c) A child weighing more than 40 pounds may be transported in the
backseat of a vehicle while wearing only a lap safety belt when the
backseat of the vehicle is not equipped with a combination lap and
shoulder safety belt..
Click to expand...

My son asked me about this just yesterday his son is outgrowing his car seat and he's starting to look at boosters. He drives a '68 Mustang that only has lap belts (front and rear) but all the booster seats he's looked at all state to use lap and shoulder belts. Section (c) above does not specify a booster seat, but seems to imply that the child weighing more than 40 lbs can sit in the back seat using only the lap belt - is this true?
 
Alan_Hepburn said:
My son asked me about this just yesterday his son is outgrowing his car seat and he's starting to look at boosters. He drives a '68 Mustang that only has lap belts (front and rear) but all the booster seats he's looked at all state to use lap and shoulder belts. Section (c) above does not specify a booster seat, but seems to imply that the child weighing more than 40 lbs can sit in the back seat using only the lap belt - is this true?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, honestly, I don't want to answer that one because I'm really not sure. I find it curious that subsection C doesn't include the phrase "Notwithstanding Section 27360" like subsection D and E do. Notwithstanding meaning "despite of"...With that language absent from subsection C, does that mean a lap belt is allowed provided the rest of Section 27360 is adhered to? (Meaning there would still be a car seat / booster seat requirement?)

The way it is written, it appears that children weighing more than 40 pounds could use only a lap belt in the back seat if that was all the car was equipped with. I'm not really familiar with that provision. If I saw that during a car stop, I would have assumed they were in violation.

So, in other words...:dunno :laughing
 
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msethhunter said:
She's also to big for a child seat. I think that's what you are referring to with the 5 point.
Click to expand...

How big is your daughter? My daughter is almost 7 and is around 75th percentile for height and still fits in a seat with a 5-point harness. :dunno

this one for example.

Forward facing:
Height: 19" – 54"
Weight: 22 – 65 lbs.
Click to expand...
 
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