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CHP showing up to trackdays and checking bikes for theft

You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. For a cop, it's as simple as walking next to a bike and reading off a combination of 17 letters and numbers. No more invasive than a cop record checking your license plate at a stop light.

If you are confused, ask the officer/deputy "Am I free to leave?" If he/she says "Yes" then go rip up the track. If they say "No," then stay until they have completed their task. You can ask the reason for not being free to leave if you are curious. No one should be being detained during this process.

There is no "proving innocence" or violation of rights.
 
Archimedes said:
But owning and operating a motorcycle in public is a privilege and not a right. In order to have that privilege, one needs to comply with certain laws related to ownership and registration. You don't have a right to privacy related to that information when you are in public. In fact it is already public information in the DMV database and all the CHP is doing is ensuring compliance with the DMV regulations. This slippery slope argument about invasion of privacy is specious at best, as this isn't about searching a vehicle, it's simply about checking a VIN number. And the CHP has the right to go into the parking lot of any track that is generally open to the public, which all the local tracks are.

Sorry, but the argument against this is classic American hypocrisy. We all love to say how we hate the criminals (be they drunk drivers, bike thieves, child molesters or murderers) but when the rubber meets the road we're unwilling to do anything to stop it that inconveniences us or puts our selfish interests at risk.
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I think you are confusing "in public" with "on a public road"

A track is not a public road, you aren't required to have DMV registration or insurance in order to ride on the track. I've never had to show my pink slip and current registration to a trackday provider because it's not needed in order to operate a motorcycle on a closed course.
 
Nick said:
You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. For a cop, it's as simple as walking next to a bike and reading off a combination of 17 letters and numbers. No more invasive than a cop record checking your license plate at a stop light.

If you are confused, ask the officer/deputy "Am I free to leave?" If he/she says "Yes" then go rip up the track. If they say "No," then stay until they have completed their task. You can ask the reason for not being free to leave if you are curious. No one should be being detained during this process.

There is no "proving innocence" or violation of rights.
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You are correct I am a bit over the top about this. I honestly think this was either a random deal or someone already knew the bike was stolen. On the other hand I do quite a few trackdays a year and I cannot see myself being a part of this. I'm tired of making concessions because of the few piles out there.
 
I don't see why people are getting their panties in a bunch over this. A track day is a public event basically. If it were considered a private event I could see where CHP should get the owners permission to enter. They can walk up to your bike while it is in the pits and just do a visual check. Thanks CHP for catching thieves.

If they were asking you to remove fairings, or were detaining you from some activity on the track then I could see privacy concerns. Other than that, I thank them for doing their job. This is time well spent.
 
It's common practice for the cops to run plates at motels, some shady spots make you sign on checkin that you consent to your information to be given to law enforcement.
 
I've said it three it other times.

The legality is sound. There is no expectation of privacy and a plain-view observation of the VIN to run it against a stolen vehicle system would require no detention and no violation of any rights.

I simply don't think it's good for the relationship between cops and community, regardless if it nets a stolen bike here or there.

We can be far more creative than going to trackdays and scoping VIN's, all without destroying community support.

Just my 0.02.

To be completely honest on the issue: I might feel differently if my bike had been stolen. Just putting it out there. :)
 
If it is legal, then I'm fine with it. I just wasn't sure whether or not it was considered a public place.

I think it is hard to judge a situation like that without having any other info.

And yes, 5 cops for 3 hours to net a stolen bike is worth it. It sends a message and closes the case on a stem vehicle.
 
Seems to me that this is pretty damn effective... Way to go! :thumbup

Quoted from www.nwp4life.com ( a car forum that I frequent ) we have a moto thread there.

black cx said:
crazy..at Laguna Seca trackday, chp and sheriff checking bikes during tech for stolen bikes. Some dude got arrested.


i see it as several ways..
1.) good for finding stolen bikes and parts
2.) invasion of privacy?
3.) Buyers buying used bikes not knowing they are stolen or with stolen parts
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mweitz said:
If it is legal, then I'm fine with it. I just wasn't sure whether or not it was considered a public place.

I think it is hard to judge a situation like that without having any other info.

And yes, 5 cops for 3 hours to net a stolen bike is worth it. It sends a message and closes the case on a stem vehicle.
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I disagree 15 cop hours for one $4k bike is hardly my idea of good utilization.
 
afm199 said:
I disagree 15 cop hours for one $4k bike is hardly my idea of good utilization.
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However... If they're able to make a big bust by finding a trailer worth of goods then it would be worthwhile. Sometimes it takes catching the smaller fish to find your way to the big one.

Insurance companys lose millions every year passing the cost onto us, If this helps decrease theft, and in turn lower our insurance rates I'm all for it. However if it's not making a difference and they're just not catching guys then I would have to agree. But from what I've read on the other forum it seems to be working at least a little bit.
 
Thateguhate said:
However... If they're able to make a big bust by finding a trailer worth of goods then it would be worthwhile. Sometimes it takes catching the smaller fish to find your way to the big one.

Insurance companys lose millions every year passing the cost onto us, If this helps decrease theft, and in turn lower our insurance rates I'm all for it. However if it's not making a difference and they're just not catching guys then I would have to agree. But from what I've read on the other forum it seems to be working at least a little bit.
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It wont help decrease rates. It wont make the community better. It will make a trackday less enjoyable.

this discussion just brings out a lot of not thinking things out to the logical end. Having officers poking around looking at VINs is not the end of this. Every LEO here knows that if they were in looking at VINs they would be looking for other violations also. They cannot just turn a blind eye. then it will eventually turn into a checkpoint. Great stop commerce and lawful fun to nab maybe 1 badguy. Not worth it.

Bigger issue is the fact that there is a feeling of what ever it takes to get the bad guy. May I remind everyone thee is a reason we have the 3rd to 5th amendments - the founding fathers rightly so did not trust government or the agents.

It always seems just when you think worth making others have to go through something like what we are talking about. But what if you dont agree. We really are not talking about the greater good- as some supreme court justices said was there reasoning to infringe on our rights with checkpoints.

The government has the uncanny ability to turn something good and righteous into something dark and tyrannical. Always starts with good intentions....
 
MellowYellow said:
It wont help decrease rates. It wont make the community better. It will make a trackday less enjoyable.

this discussion just brings out a lot of not thinking things out to the logical end. Having officers poking around looking at VINs is not the end of this. Every LEO here knows that if they were in looking at VINs they would be looking for other violations also. They cannot just turn a blind eye. then it will eventually turn into a checkpoint. Great stop commerce and lawful fun to nab maybe 1 badguy. Not worth it.

Bigger issue is the fact that there is a feeling of what ever it takes to get the bad guy. May I remind everyone thee is a reason we have the 3rd to 5th amendments - the founding fathers rightly so did not trust government or the agents.

It always seems just when you think worth making others have to go through something like what we are talking about. But what if you dont agree. We really are not talking about the greater good- as some supreme court justices said was there reasoning to infringe on our rights with checkpoints.

The government has the uncanny ability to turn something good and righteous into something dark and tyrannical. Always starts with good intentions....
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What other stuff can they enforce? The track is still private property and the vehicle code does not apply to private property (with few exceptions such as DUI).

No one is getting stopped. A stop is a detention, and no one would be detained during these checks. Again, it's as simple as running a records check on a license plate at a stop light. The cop could do it and you wouldn't even know.

Scenario A:
Officer drives by your bike while you are inside the movie theater and runs a record check on the license plate.

Scenario B:
Officer walks by your bike while you are inside for briefing/breakfast/taking a dump/etc... and runs a records check on the VIN.

Scenario C:
Officer inspects the VIN while the bike is being tech inspected. Since you are required to submit to tech inspection prior to the event, the officer has 30 seconds to read the VIN off the bike.

Where is the intrusiveness?

Quartering troops and right against self incrimination do not apply to this debate. Perhaps you meant 4th amendment right to search and seizure, which does not apply because A) it is not a search and B) it is public domain.

Again, you're making this into something it isn't.

T-1 Thunder said:
I think the track owners could kick them out if they didn't approve.
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Yes, they can ask the officers to leave. If asked they should leave, absent any emergency or evidence of criminal activity at the location.
 
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xlcr said:
What if your bike is "non-op"ed and you get to deal with nasty demands from the DMV?

I re-posted to ba.motorcycles an obituary that some chippie in Monterey found so offensive that he started running VINs on a low-volume bike that I had filed as non-operational. I got a nastygram from the DMV that there was "evidence" that I had operated the bike on the highway and I would have to pay the penalties and provide POI. I called Sacramento and asked what this "evidence" was. I was told I would have to take it up with the Monterey CHP office. When I stopped by the local DMV office, they said there was no record of any problem with my registration.
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ding. ding. ding. We have a winner!

You see, just like DUI checkpoints they start out with the best of intentions. We just wanna set up a check point to get the drunks off the road. Oh, and let me see your paperwork, oh and wait a second I think I smell weed, and hey is your license plate frame light out? Oh my it is! Just look at any DUI checkpoint and you'll see that the number of offenses cited other than DUI almost always outnumbers the DUI cites.


Mikey said:
A track is not a public road, you aren't required to have DMV registration or insurance in order to ride on the track. I've never had to show my pink slip and current registration to a trackday provider because it's not needed in order to operate a motorcycle on a closed course.
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Ahhh... but you're wrong. You do, in fact need to have your bike registered in order to legally transport it to the track or legally race it on the track.* (The trackday provider could care less, mr. Chp on the other hand, well, we're gonna need to generate some revenue here pretty quick, are you following the news at all?) How many "track" bikes are PNO** or have just let their registrations lapse??? I personally owe over $500 in back registration on my current track bike, so um, yeah, I'm not so happy about this.

*California law requires vehicles to be currently registered if they are driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways at any time during the registration period.

OHVs are vehicles such as racing motorcycles, trail bikes, mini bikes, dune buggies, all-terrain vehicles, jeeps, and snowmobiles. These vehicles are operated exclusively off public roads and highways on lands that are open and accessible to the public. They do not require regular registration, but must display an identification plate or device issued by DMV.

It is not necessary to register a vehicle for both on-highway and off-highway use. Valid on-highway registration allows the vehicle to be operated on and off the highway. Vehicles registered for on-highway use only may be subject to a "use fee" if operated in OHV parks.

**Non-operational means that the vehicle will not be driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways for the entire registration year.
 
afm199 said:
I disagree 15 cop hours for one $4k bike is hardly my idea of good utilization.
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I would rather have CHP look for stolen bikes than hand out speeding tickets. It is good utilization if you ask me.

15 man hours recovering $4k is recovering $266 of stolen goods per man hour. That's a lot more than I make per hour.
 
teg916 said:
I would rather have CHP look for stolen bikes than hand out speeding tickets. It is good utilization if you ask me.

15 man hours recovering $4k is recovering $266 of stolen goods per man hour. That's a lot more than I make per hour.
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Going by the idea of bringing in more money.. I'd be hard pressed to think otherwise that doing traffic enforcement would net less than $300/hr for whoever collects the money months later. :dunno
 
The problems I have with it.....

1) My 2-stroke. I have the sale paperwork from Rising Sun Motorcycles, never did the 'proper' racebike registration to transport.

2) The SV 650. Have the sale paperwork for the frame/swingarm, and the original salvage yard papers. Have the paperwork for the canadian purchased salvage engine, as well. Again, have not done the 'proper' "this is a racebike, let me transport it" paperwork.

In both instances, it comes down to me being lazy.

In case it was missed, this is how to do it.....

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38206
 
the point you are missing is that there is no reason to have police do these checks. It is intrusive to ME. That is what you are missing. Just because YOU feel its okay does not make it okay. I point to DUI checkpooints as an example it was to stop drunk drivers but now it is used to check for other violations.

In principle you should never just open the door for the government my friend. This is the reason you need to have to register a vehicle not used on any public highway in california. The government here in california has for years way over reached. $50 license for transporting vegetable oil if you plan to use it for fuel is another great example. The government is in our lives enough no need to get it more involved on a day that is supposed to be fun.

Nick said:
What other stuff can they enforce? The track is still private property and the vehicle code does not apply to private property (with few exceptions such as DUI).

No one is getting stopped. A stop is a detention, and no one would be detained during these checks. Again, it's as simple as running a records check on a license plate at a stop light. The cop could do it and you wouldn't even know.

Scenario A:
Officer drives by your bike while you are inside the movie theater and runs a record check on the license plate.

Scenario B:
Officer walks by your bike while you are inside for briefing/breakfast/taking a dump/etc... and runs a records check on the VIN.

Scenario C:
Officer inspects the VIN while the bike is being tech inspected. Since you are required to submit to tech inspection prior to the event, the officer has 30 seconds to read the VIN off the bike.

Where is the intrusiveness?

Quartering troops and right against self incrimination do not apply to this debate. Perhaps you meant 4th amendment right to search and seizure, which does not apply because A) it is not a search and B) it is public domain.

Again, you're making this into something it isn't.



Yes, they can ask the officers to leave. If asked they should leave, absent any emergency or evidence of criminal activity at the location.
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