Circumcision. Is it necessary?

[Gabe]

Wow, that's a super jacked up looking device!

Better than in the back of a Royal Deluxe II:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/2323

 

[asthmodeus]

Finally - you set out on a crusade to make the case for circumcision in this thread. Did you really expect everybody to simply agree with you If you are going to dish it out - you should learn to take it.

oh i can take it, but you reduced it to a moronic level with 'circumcision results in small dicks', so i responded in kind. seems more to me like you can't take it.

and yes, i done been crusading here, admittedly, once i realized how misguided some of you are to COMPLETELY IGNORE OR INVALIDATE the collective work of most of the worlds public health agencies...and again, i don't really care what you people do with your kids dicks- i won't be having any daughters to catch pelvic inflammatory conditions from them- i'm more concerned about myself and what's out there now...i more find it amusing that fools like the MGM are out there trying to turn what is a beneficial practice into mutilation, when it is clearly not.

 

[OldMadBrit]

Having had experience with both cut and uncut versions I completely agree with this. Biologically speaking, the male foreskin is developmentally equivalent to the female clitoral hood.

Good to get a female opinion on the subject

 

[asthmodeus]

How about a vented arm-pocket? I mean fuck, sometimes you can cause a life-threatening injury just by running. How that made it through evolution is beyond me, it really is!

seriously, some armadillo skin instead of a wrankled up coin purse would have been a nice gesture by nasty ol' momma nature..

 

[LongGoneJohn]

seriously, some armadillo skin instead of a wrankled up coin purse would have been a nice gesture by nasty ol' momma nature..

HAhahahahhaah now that was funny.

So true!

 

[asthmodeus]

Having had experience with both cut and uncut versions I completely agree with this. Biologically speaking, the male foreskin is developmentally equivalent to the female clitoral hood.

mmm, i have a lot of experience with vaginas, and i would say that if the glans of an uncircumcised pecker is even CLOSE to as sensitive as a clitoris, i don't think i could stand wearing anything but pure silk underwear.

a lot of biologists seem to think the prepuce is a redundant vestige. go figure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225416/

 

[Gabe]

1) Go and watch an infant being circumcised when the foreskin is still attached to the glans - it is, without doubt, horrific butchery - outside of the US, Israel and Islamic countries, it is almost impossible to get a medical practitioner to perform it at this early stage.

2) The only place in the world that still argues hygiene is in a few hold-outs in the US

3) We have to assume that your dick works fine - but you cant possibly know what you are missing.

Finally - you set out on a crusade to make the case for circumcision in this thread. Did you really expect everybody to simply agree with you If you are going to dish it out - you should learn to take it.

There are many of us on the opposing side that are just as passionate (or more) about stamping out this barbaric abomination

1. I did, with my son. It was not a big deal, and most certainly not "horrific butchery." I've seen more blood removing a hangnail. He cried much more when he was hungry or getting an injection. That little table with straps looks like a torture device, but it's not. It just keeps him still--for obvious reasons.

Nobody will do it, eh? Huh, there must be a lot of rogue circumcisers out there:

England: 30,000 a year: http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Circumcision.htm
Africa: 62% http://www.avert.org/circumcision-hiv.htm
France: 22%, projected to rise to 25% by 2030: http://www.circlist.com/rites/france.html

2. Oh, and the WHO. http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

3.

 

[OldMadBrit]

oh i can take it, but you reduced it to a moronic level with 'circumcision results in small dicks', so i responded in kind. seems more to me like you can't take it.

and yes, i done been crusading here, admittedly, once i realized how misguided some of you are to COMPLETELY IGNORE OR INVALIDATE the collective work of most of the worlds public health agencies...and again, i don't really care what you people do with your kids dicks- i won't be having any daughters to catch pelvic inflammatory conditions from them- i'm more concerned about myself and what's out there now...i more find it amusing that fools like the MGM are out there trying to turn what is a beneficial practice into mutilation, when it is clearly not.

I never mentioned any connection between mutilation and dick size - that was Horse.

And for the record - you are the one who is completely ignoring the evidence. In post after post, you repeat the same unproven and discredited BS and refuse to respond to legitimate points of view and easily verifiable data.

According to Kaiser Permanente, Circumcision rates in CA are now thankfully down from 90% in the 50's, to 30% and declining. Their website makes it pretty clear that there is little to zero benefit and significant risk and discomfort.

If you do absolutely nothing else - please search for and watch a video of a neonatal circumcision and see if you can get the sound of a shrieking, traumatized newborn out of your head.

 

[NoGall]

Flame war over dick skin

 

[OldMadBrit]

1. I did, with my son. It was not a big deal, and most certainly not "horrific butchery." I've seen more blood removing a hangnail. He cried much more when he was hungry or getting an injection. That little table with straps looks like a torture device, but it's not. It just keeps him still--for obvious reasons.

Nobody will do it, eh? Huh, there must be a lot of rogue circumcisers out there:

England: 30,000 a year: http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Circumcision.htm
Africa: 62% http://www.avert.org/circumcision-hiv.htm
France: 22%, projected to rise to 25% by 2030: http://www.circlist.com/rites/france.html

2. Oh, and the WHO. http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

3.

Its good that your son was not traumatized - many are, particularly if the plastobel device is not available.

Regarding the data for the UK and France, if you look at the increasing Islamic populations of the UK and France and you will see an almost perfect correlation.

The WHO study has been roundly discredited - besides which a condom is far better protection against AIDS than a mutilation.

 

[OldMadBrit]

Flame war over dick skin

At least its not guns or Dem/GOP for once

 

[Gabe]

What you say:

According to Kaiser Permanente...there is little to zero benefit and significant risk and discomfort.

What Kaiser actually says:

In most cases, there isn't a medical reason for circumcision. Your son was born with a natural penis, and it is safe and healthy to keep it that way if you decide to do so. Some parents choose circumcision based on religious or cultural reasons.

If your son is healthy, circumcision most likely won't affect his health either way. There may be some slight health benefits for circumcised males, but these are not reason enough to choose circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) does not recommend circumcision as a routine procedure for newborn males.

Problems from circumcision aren't common. If they occur, they are usually short-term, such as minor bleeding or infection. Other possible problems include pain and irritation of the tip of the penis.

Long-term problems are even more uncommon, but they can include damage to the opening of the urethra, heavy bleeding, severe infection, or scarring.

Some people have concerns that circumcision can decrease sensitivity in the penis. Some people also wonder if circumcision disrupts the bonding that occurs between mother and son during breast-feeding. But there is not a lot of research about these concerns.

But don't let the facts stand in the way of a good argument...

 

[OldMadBrit]

mmm, i have a lot of experience with vaginas, and i would say that if the glans of an uncircumcised pecker is even CLOSE to as sensitive as a clitoris, i don't think i could stand wearing anything but pure silk underwear.

So you are starting to figure it out at last

For the uncut, just thought of having ones glans uncovered and rubbed raw on ones clothing is horrific

 

[OldMadBrit]

What you say:



What Kaiser actually says:

In most cases, there isn't a medical reason for circumcision. Your son was born with a natural penis, and it is safe and healthy to keep it that way if you decide to do so. Some parents choose circumcision based on religious or cultural reasons.

If your son is healthy, circumcision most likely won't affect his health either way. There may be some slight health benefits for circumcised males, but these are not reason enough to choose circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) does not recommend circumcision as a routine procedure for newborn males.

Problems from circumcision aren't common. If they occur, they are usually short-term, such as minor bleeding or infection. Other possible problems include pain and irritation of the tip of the penis.

Long-term problems are even more uncommon, but they can include damage to the opening of the urethra, heavy bleeding, severe infection, or scarring.

Some people have concerns that circumcision can decrease sensitivity in the penis. Some people also wonder if circumcision disrupts the bonding that occurs between mother and son during breast-feeding. But there is not a lot of research about these concerns.

But don't let the facts stand in the way of a good argument...

you just made my point

Kaiser use the Plastobell, which does thankfully reduce the pain and trauma of the proceedure - many don't.

 

[asthmodeus]

Regarding the data for the UK and France, if you look at the increasing Islamic populations of the UK and France and you will see an almost perfect correlation.

.

being an optimist, if not a diplomat, i'd say that perhaps we could use this as a country to improve on our strained relationship with the muslim world...could it even bring Israel and Islam together???

"Hey my muslim brothers and sisters, at least we all have cleaner dicks and less snatch cancer"

 

[OldMadBrit]

being an optimist, if not a diplomat, i'd say that perhaps we could use this as a country to improve on our strained relationship with the muslim world...could it even bring Israel and Islam together???

"Hey my muslim brothers and sisters, at least we all have cleaner dicks and less snatch cancer"

Its always amazed me that Israel and the Islamic world have so much in common (not to mention a shared ancestry) and yet there is so much mutual hatred.

But then I spent some of my saddest years in Northern Ireland during the troubles and couldn't figure that festering mess out either.

 

[Gabe]

Its good that your son was not traumatized - many are, particularly if the plastobel device is not available.

Regarding the data for the UK and France, if you look at the increasing Islamic populations of the UK and France and you will see an almost perfect correlation.

The WHO study has been roundly discredited - besides which a condom is far better protection against AIDS than a mutilation.

You post a lot of contentions with no citations to show you're not making it up. I guess you expect the more weak-minded on BARF to just take your word for it?

-Kaiser does circumcisions via plastibel and other devices. There is no "trauma" (a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from mental or emotional stress or physical injury, according to Merriam-Webster) from properly done circumcisions.

-Muslims are not, and will not be, 25 percent of France's population, not if the French have anything to say about it. Right now there are 2.1 million Muslims in France, about 3% of the population. England is 2.8 percent. That's a lot of German-helmet penises on non-Muslims.

The WHO study has been roundly discredited by anti-circumcision activists - besides which a condom is far better protection against AIDS than a mutilation.

Fixed!

But I wish you wouldn't say "mutilation". That's hyperbolic by almost any definition. Just like calling abortion "baby killing" or gun control activists "anti-gun".

Seriously, though--don't anti-circumcision people have anything else to worry about? You've made a non-issue an issue. If you don't want your kid to be circumcised, don't get him circumcised. Leave us alone.

 

[Horse]

oh i can take it, but you reduced it to a moronic level with 'circumcision results in small dicks', so i responded in kind. seems more to me like you can't take it.

and yes, i done been crusading here, admittedly, once i realized how misguided some of you are to COMPLETELY IGNORE OR INVALIDATE the collective work of most of the worlds public health agencies...and again, i don't really care what you people do with your kids dicks- i won't be having any daughters to catch pelvic inflammatory conditions from them- i'm more concerned about myself and what's out there now...i more find it amusing that fools like the MGM are out there trying to turn what is a beneficial practice into mutilation, when it is clearly not.

Most of the world doesn't mutilate their children. Only Israeli and Islam countries for religious reasons. USA for tradition? But mutilation rates are dropping fast even in USA as people are being better informed. Other countries are way ahead of us, and stopped preforming them many years ago.

Disease is a joke reason. If you think circumcision is going to fight disease, you have a harsh reality lesson ahead of you. You would do much better to cut the whole child penis off. Much less chance of a STD that way. I'm sure they will thank you later.

Please explain the crooked scared penises in porn? Ever see deformed toes/feet from kids growing up with shoes too small/tight? What do you think happens when penis skin is too tight? It is only common sense something is going to warp, especially if cut a little uneven.

 

[asthmodeus]

Most of the world doesn't mutilate their children. Only Israeli and Islam countries for religious reasons. USA for tradition? But mutilation rates are dropping fast even in USA as people are being better informed. Other countries are way ahead of us, and stopped preforming them many years ago.

Disease is a joke reason. If you think circumcision is going to fight disease, you have a harsh reality lesson ahead of you. You would do much better to cut the whole child penis off. Much less chance of a STD that way. I'm sure they will thank you later.

Please explain the crooked scared penises in porn? Ever see deformed toes/feet from kids growing up with shoes too small/tight? What do you think happens when penis skin is too tight? It is only common sense something is going to warp, especially if cut a little uneven.

you're just jealous that my dick is less sensitive and tougher than yours.

 

[byke]

 

[Horse]

you're just jealous that my dick is less sensitive and tougher than yours.

If my penis were less sensitive, I would feel sorry for the girls I make love to. Thrusting blindly, angrily, not knowing what is going on down there. Just knowing I have to jackhammer the hell out of that pussy so I can feel something and cum.

Its my sensitivity that allows me to sometimes slowly stroke my large rock hard penis inside them holding off until we both climax. One of the biggest complements I get from women is how rock hard solid my penis always is. No doubt in part to me 'feeling every bit of it'. Feeling the waves of orgasm, when that pussy is convulsing on my cock and cumming. It's awesome. I get a woody just thinking about it.

I can only surmise there are a lot of limp dicks out there. Probably partly due to being mutilated as a child, and not feeling it.

Its like you circumcised guys are riding motorcycles with huge boxing gloves on. How could you possibly feel what the bike is doing without that extra sense of touch. Feel of the ride is a huge advantage and very important if you want to know what is going on. Losing half that feeling of touch can make a very big difference during a ride.

Why take that away from your child? Religious tradition?

 

[OldMadBrit]

You post a lot of contentions with no citations to show you're not making it up. I guess you expect the more weak-minded on BARF to just take your word for it?

-Kaiser does circumcisions via plastibel and other devices. There is no "trauma" (a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from mental or emotional stress or physical injury, according to Merriam-Webster) from properly done circumcisions.

-Muslims are not, and will not be, 25 percent of France's population, not if the French have anything to say about it. Right now there are 2.1 million Muslims in France, about 3% of the population. England is 2.8 percent. That's a lot of German-helmet penises on non-Muslims.



Fixed!

But I wish you wouldn't say "mutilation". That's hyperbolic by almost any definition. Just like calling abortion "baby killing" or gun control activists "anti-gun".

Seriously, though--don't anti-circumcision people have anything else to worry about? You've made a non-issue an issue. If you don't want your kid to be circumcised, don't get him circumcised. Leave us alone.

Yes Kaiser uses the Plastobell, thankfully. - I said that

If the glans is not attached to the foreskin (which is not always the case) then a circumcision performed with a topical anesthetic and a Plastobell could be considered a relatively minor procedure. It is still unnecessary and performed without informed consent.

I have zero problem with circumcision being performed as a result of an child's informed request (one without peer pressure) at puberty.

It seems that I stand corrected on the rate of non-religious circumcision in the UK and France

Trauma can be both physical and/or psychological - I am referring to the former.

I call it mutilation because when we are dealing with neonatal circumcision, without a Plastobell and anesthetic - that's what it is. Particularly if the foreskin has to be torn from the glans.

Most of the non-circumcised world could care less about this subject. Its the evangelizing of the "cut before they have a choice" brigade that gets us riled up

Apart from voting, I made little comment in this thread at first. The rhetoric was ramped-up by the pro-side and a few of us responded appropriately in kind.

 

[OldMadBrit]

If my penis were less sensitive, I would feel sorry for the girls I make love to. Thrusting blindly, angrily, not knowing what is going on down there. Just knowing I have to jackhammer the hell out of that pussy so I can feel something and cum.

Its my sensitivity that allows me to sometimes slowly stroke my large rock hard penis inside them holding off until we both climax. One of the biggest complements I get from women is how rock hard solid my penis always is. No doubt in part to me 'feeling every bit of it'. Feeling the waves of orgasm, when that pussy is convulsing on my cock and cumming. It's awesome. I get a woody just thinking about it.

I can only surmise there are a lot of limp dicks out there. Probably partly due to being mutilated as a child, and not feeling it.

Its like you circumcised guys are riding motorcycles with huge boxing gloves on. How could you possibly feel what the bike is doing without that extra sense of touch. Feel of the ride is a huge advantage and very important if you want to know what is going on. Losing half that feeling of touch can make a very big difference during a ride.

Why take that away from your child? Religious tradition?

You cut guys might not like the way Horse puts this, and particularly the implications - but he make valid points

 

[MysterYvil]

MysterYvil voted yes... and hes a pornstar/Sex educator.

More importantly, my partners and friends have encountered both circumcised and uncircumcised partners...

Sure, uncircumcised guys can be clean, but far more of them fail the "sniff test" than their circumcised counterparts.

Also, according to my intimates and my female friends, there is no difference in "sensitivity" when comparing mushrooms and anteaters. Guys are pretty much ALL pretty sensitive, in their experience.

 

[MysterYvil]

Don't do it. I have the most gorgeous uncircumcised cock you have ever seen. Ladies LOVE my cock. In the hundreds I've banged I have never heard a single negative. Just about every single woman has commented on what a great cock I have. A beautiful cock. A handsome cock. They love to play with it, kiss it, and put it in their mouth.

For me the foreskin separated naturally from the head at 12. Freaked me out a little when it happened, but only for a couple days. When my cock is hard it looks like a circumcised penis. Just has slightly more shaft skin to slide back and forth on. Which is very pleasurable for me and the ladies.

Foreskin separates naturally when going through puberty on most men. Don't butcher your child. Its stupid.

You tell the best fairytales, Horse! Go, you badass intraweb warrior!