Circumcision. Is it necessary?

[asthmodeus]

Well, it appears that polling society at large is generating similar numbers to the barfocosm http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-male-circumcision-beneficial-and-or-ethically-sound which is to be expected i suppose...i mean, why would a cross section of motorcyclists be any different than a cross section of any other 'mercian demographic, right? :|

in any event, i'll leave you with this to suck on-

They were able to get details on HPV infections for nearly 1,000 women, all identified by men as long-term sex partners such as wives. After two years, 27.8 percent of the steady partners of circumcised men had HPV infections, compared to 38.7 percent of the partners of uncircumcised men.

HPV infection is best known as the primary cause of cervical cancer, but it causes genital warts and can also lead to cancers of the anus, penis, head and neck.

Male circumcision has now been shown to decrease HIV, herpes simplex virus-2, and HPV infections and genital ulcer disease in men, and also HPV infection, trichomoniasis, and bacterial vaginosis and genital ulcer disease in their female partners

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/06/us-circumcision-virus-idUSTRE7056HB20110106

it's funny that pretty much only horse is the only one to really have anything to say about this, however delusional, and granted, no we don't live in Uganda but i personally haven't been there and cannot comment on what day to day hygiene is like there...but i will say that there are PLENTY of 'unwashed masses' here in this lovely and shining beacon of first worlditude, the SF Bay Area!

so, at the end of the day, it's still pretty much up in the air as to how much actual benefit to circumcision when you factor in all the other stuff like using condoms, making good, educated choices on who to fuck or whatever, but i'm QUITE SURE that not one person here has made good choices 100% of the time, so if there is some resistance offered by circumcising, then at very least it's not something that one should be committing themselves to eradicating, you MGM dingbats. you truly, truly make me sick trying to push your views on this upon people who want the option to be there. it's not mutilation, and you know it, you just have something wrong up in your head and are quite likely pro-lifers to boot.

it's also cool to hear Paulos and JMack's side of things- we used to rip on the couple of uncircumcised doods pretty mercilessly in gym class, and that's wrong, but kids rip on each other and probably always will for something or another.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Sad to see that we only lasted 14 pages before Antarius turned it into a political thread.

It got political the instant someone mentioned HIV.

A non mutilated liberal wants it to be an informed choice at puberty

Ah, pish posh. The whole POINT of being a parent is that you're making choices for your child in which they have precisely ZERO say, and of which they have even less understanding. In the grand view of choices that my parents made for me before I got to the age of understanding, the decision to cut a bit of skin off the end of my dick rates pretty low on the scale of importance.

It's just more proof that society takes penises WAY too seriously. There are dozens of choices that parents make for their children that are FAR more important. Religion, exercise, nutrition, education, travel, etc.: all kinds of shit that has WAY more of an effect down the line than the appearance of their cock. When a parent overfeeds their child or lets them do nothing but sit around and play video games all day, it has a mutilating effect on both their physiology AND their psyche that makes the removal of a bit of flesh from their pecker look like a non-issue, but NOONE is up in arms about making it illegal for a parent to let their kid turn into a fat slob.

 

[Horse]

So it's surgery then, mutilation if done earlier.

Okay bud.

Look it's simple, if you don't want to circumcise your kid, don't. If I want to, I will.

What he described is his foreskin not retracting from the head naturally at puberty. This only happens to a very small percentage of men, and needs to be corrected otherwise erections would be painful.

I think when people think of uncut vs cut. They either think of small child's penis, (after all, that's usually all they see) which is before the foreskin naturally retracts. And that skin is covering the head.

On a grown man, its no longer like that. The foreskin retracts at puberty. The penis grows into the skin. Think of it as a kid growing into a coat that was a couple sizes too big. Now the only way you can get the skin over the head is if you pull on it, and only while soft. When hard, you cant pull the skin over the head, it just doesn't go that far.

I've seen some weird cases in porn where the guys foreskin doesn't fully retract, but that isn't the norm. Every penis and vagina is different. Some have more skin/hood than others. Don't use extreme cases to make your point.

Imagine if some christian/jewish/islam religious nut see's a woman with huge labia. He then decides to cut off all baby girls labia, so they all look the same at adulthood. Now all religious girls have no labia. Circumcision amounts to this. Baby mutilation plan and simple. Except its foreskin, not labia.

Its surgery, because he had a medical problem. His foreskin never retracted during puberty. Chances are they just retracted him and didn't cut off too much of his foreskin/nerve endings.

Its mutilation as a child, because they don't just retract, they snip all the foreskin away. Taking away half the cocks sensitive nerve endings. Cut cocks are scarred. The skin under the head often looks stretched unnaturally. Many times there is discoloration of the skin, where its stretched and scared. Maybe you don't notice because you don't know what a healthy natural cock looks like. But its mutilation. I notice because I have a healthy natural cock and have watched a lot of porn.

I'm a freedom lover. If you want to cut up your cock, or put a pad lock through your head of it, go for it. If you want to cut up your kids cock, I really don't care, that's up to you too.

But don't come on here spreading lies trying to convince other people. That I won't stand for. Circumcision is a barbaric religious ritual. A tradition. One that is slowly dieing off. There is no medical benefit to it, and it can do some harm. As you are cutting away sensitive bits.

You are here to lie to yourself and others. I'm here to educate so parents can make the best decision for their child.

 

[F4iChic]

Next to the circumstraint:

This is where all the fun happens!

Welcome to my world.

Srsly, I took that pic last night.

Ken, where are you working that you took that pic last night? Who the hell has IT stuff going on overnight at a Drs office or hospital?

 

[Horse]

Actually I wanted it done real bad I just like the look without the hoody. You dont have to do the surgery they can give you steroids for the foreskin pain. The Dr. wanted to make sure I wasnt doing it for my mom or a gf and that it was my sole decision which it was.

And everyone just loves it, loves it ,loves it. When I press it up againts a bus window or whip it out in church.
I take my penis skiing, hes like watchout for that tree. And I'm like thanks penis-Lucky I had you out...

In your case, you had to have the surgery. Your cock shouldn't be giving you pain when erect. Glad they fixed it and it worked out for you.

Everyone loves my cock too. I'm known for taking him out often. He is like that loveable best friend that is always getting me into trouble.

 

[Bay Arean]

seems true. Women have some body issues as well.
This is what makes us so freakin interesting, neurotic and loveable!

Just to embellish the point, I will say that even tho' some of the guys here talk glowingly about their member, there have been times in my life when I considered Bay Arean Jr. to be more of a tormentor than friend. And periodically, guys get drunk or distraught and cut their Johnson off exactly because of it.

I mean, really, the hijinx and situations guys get into to please their needs are diverse, astronomical and pretty much tilt the earth of human history. But I guess that's like being amazed that the sun is bright. Inevitable.

 

[Horse]

Ah, pish posh. The whole POINT of being a parent is that you're making choices for your child in which they have precisely ZERO say, and of which they have even less understanding. In the grand view of choices that my parents made for me before I got to the age of understanding, the decision to cut a bit of skin off the end of my dick rates pretty low on the scale of importance.

It's just more proof that society takes penises WAY too seriously. There are dozens of choices that parents make for their children that are FAR more important. Religion, exercise, nutrition, education, travel, etc.: all kinds of shit that has WAY more of an effect down the line than the appearance of their cock. When a parent overfeeds their child or lets them do nothing but sit around and play video games all day, it has a mutilating effect on both their physiology AND their psyche that makes the removal of a bit of flesh from their pecker look like a non-issue, but NOONE is up in arms about making it illegal for a parent to let their kid turn into a fat slob.

There is a big difference between those other choices and mutilating your child's cock. Those other choices can be reversed when your kid becomes an adult. Good luck growing back a foreskin.

Just the fact that you want to get involved in your kids sex life, before he even has one, is pretty twisted by my standards. But to each his own.

 

[byke]

Just the fact that you want to get involved in your kids sex life, before he even has one, is pretty twisted by my standards. But to each his own.

 

[Horse]

Well, it appears that polling society at large is generating similar numbers to the barfocosm http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-male-circumcision-beneficial-and-or-ethically-sound which is to be expected i suppose...i mean, why would a cross section of motorcyclists be any different than a cross section of any other 'mercian demographic, right? :|

in any event, i'll leave you with this to suck on-


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/06/us-circumcision-virus-idUSTRE7056HB20110106

it's funny that pretty much only horse is the only one to really have anything to say about this, however delusional, and granted, no we don't live in Uganda but i personally haven't been there and cannot comment on what day to day hygiene is like there...but i will say that there are PLENTY of 'unwashed masses' here in this lovely and shining beacon of first worlditude, the SF Bay Area!

so, at the end of the day, it's still pretty much up in the air as to how much actual benefit to circumcision when you factor in all the other stuff like using condoms, making good, educated choices on who to fuck or whatever, but i'm QUITE SURE that not one person here has made good choices 100% of the time, so if there is some resistance offered by circumcising, then at very least it's not something that one should be committing themselves to eradicating, you MGM dingbats. you truly, truly make me sick trying to push your views on this upon people who want the option to be there. it's not mutilation, and you know it, you just have something wrong up in your head and are quite likely pro-lifers to boot.

it's also cool to hear Paulos and JMack's side of things- we used to rip on the couple of uncircumcised doods pretty mercilessly in gym class, and that's wrong, but kids rip on each other and probably always will for something or another.

The studies are seriously flawed. Done by people with agenda. Its simple really. You take away half a grown mans sensual nerve endings, he probably doesn't enjoy sex as much. That would explain the slightly increased numbers of disease in guys unmutilated. More sex equals more disease. Also you are talking about countries that don't have access to stuff like lube and condoms. Without that extra foreskin, no lube sex would not be as enjoyable. So less sex.

Kids haven't been through puberty yet. So there is a big difference between appearance of cut vs un-cut. So some make fun not knowing any better. But tide has turned on that these days as numbers are even. Soon it will be the cut ones that are made fun of.

Now as adults, un-cut have the last laugh, as our cocks haven't been butchered. We have more nerve endings allowing us to enjoy sex more. Keeping our cocks rock hard into old age. When your butchered up cock gets older and less sensitive, you will probably need Viagra just to get it up. That might be where agenda came into play in the studies.

Remember when cigarettes were good for you? How about saccharin? Yes, that is what the studies said.

 

[asthmodeus]

^ if that's the best you've got old boy, then you're really doing your fellow MGM'ers a disservice.

 

[OldMadBrit]

It got political the instant someone mentioned HIV.



Ah, pish posh. The whole POINT of being a parent is that you're making choices for your child in which they have precisely ZERO say, and of which they have even less understanding. In the grand view of choices that my parents made for me before I got to the age of understanding, the decision to cut a bit of skin off the end of my dick rates pretty low on the scale of importance.

It's just more proof that society takes penises WAY too seriously. There are dozens of choices that parents make for their children that are FAR more important. Religion, exercise, nutrition, education, travel, etc.: all kinds of shit that has WAY more of an effect down the line than the appearance of their cock. When a parent overfeeds their child or lets them do nothing but sit around and play video games all day, it has a mutilating effect on both their physiology AND their psyche that makes the removal of a bit of flesh from their pecker look like a non-issue, but NOONE is up in arms about making it illegal for a parent to let their kid turn into a fat slob.

I don't see anybody arguing with you about the need to educate your kid about healthy lifestyles. That's the most important thing parents can do - educate, so they can make INFORMED DECISIONS

So where does preemptive mutilation fit in to this? What's so impossibly difficult for the pro-cut lobby to simply wait until their kid reaches puberty and then let him decide?

If pre-emptive mutilation is so important to you, why not remove your kids:

feet - lest they ever trip up?
ears - so they hear no evil?
eyes - so no harmful image disturbs them?

why not remove your infant daughter's breasts to save her from breast cancer?

 

[byke]

If this procedure had not been going on for the last hundred years, we would all be freaking the fk out if we were reading an article about some parents who decided to cut their kid's weenis, no matter how logical their position was.

 

[asthmodeus]

ok, i'm done. you guys are effin retarded.

 

[Horse]

^ if that's the best you've got old boy, then you're really doing your fellow MGM'ers a disservice.

Old boy? Who you calling old? or boy? Or MGM'er? Even your insults don't make sense.

I'm not a MGM'er. I believe in freedom, so don't believe in Male Genital Mutilation being outlawed. So don't label me as you are wrong on all counts as usual.

It would be like me calling you a religious nut, for wanting to continue this barbaric tradition. I don't know if you are a religious nut. You just might be into hurting babies. Or maybe you are just scared that if this trend doesn't continue, you will be looked upon as 'different' ... 'mutilated as a child'.

But I really don't care what your reasoning is. Don't even care that you try and label me. It just shows you have nothing substantial to bring to the discussion. Other than flawed studies that suggest being circumcised prevents aids. Yeah, good luck with that one.

 

[asthmodeus]

Old boy? Who you calling old? or boy? Or MGM'er? Even your insults don't make sense.

I'm not a MGM'er. I believe in freedom, so don't believe in Male Genital Mutilation being outlawed. So don't label me as you are wrong on all counts as usual.

It would be like me calling you a religious nut, for wanting to continue this barbaric tradition. I don't know if you are a religious nut. You just might be into hurting babies. Or maybe you are just scared that if this trend doesn't continue, you will be looked upon as 'different' ... 'mutilated as a child'.

But I really don't care what your reasoning is. Don't even care that you try and label me. It just shows you have nothing substantial to bring to the discussion. Other than flawed studies that suggest being circumcised prevents aids. Yeah, good luck with that one.

as well as herpes and hpv

 

[augustiron]

I think the only votes that will be counted in the pole(sic) are the Barfettes......

 

[Horse]

as well as herpes and hpv

You really think you are safe having unprotected sex with diseased people because you were circumcised? If you really want to be safe, just cut your whole dick off.

If there is any question, I rather just wear a condom to be on the safe side. My sensitive nerve endings weren't butchered off, so it will still feel good. Maybe as good as your unprotected sex.

I've had sex with a lot of women, and disease free so far. I'll stick with what works and gives me the most pleasure.

 

[Marlowe]

Sorry, Horse....

Condoms don't protect you against the skin infections like those two.

 

[Horse]

I think the only votes that will be counted in the pole(sic) are the Barfettes......

In order for barfettes or any future mom to make an informed decision, I will offer them a viewing of my magnificent penis. I really have heard nothing but raves about it my entire life. But only look, no touching. Unless I give the OK.

I can tell you the barfettes that have had my penis enjoyed it immensely, but haven't voted in this poll. It seems a mans penis can either give him a lot of confidence, or a lot of misery. That really is a shame, as it is such a small part of us. Be it a very important part. Mine has made me into a cocky bastard.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I researched this issue extensively before my son was born (20 years ago) and made the decision to leave his junk intact. I have never regretted that decision.

 

[Horse]

Sorry, Horse....

Condoms don't protect you against the skin infections like those two.

 

[Horse]

I researched this issue extensively before my son was born (20 years ago) and made the decision to leave his junk intact. I have never regretted that decision.

Bravo!

My dad was cut. It was my mom that wanted me intact. I thank her very much for it, as it wasn't the norm back then. Today is very different.

Circumcision rates by state.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Bravo!

My dad was cut. It was my mom that wanted me intact. I thank her very much for it, as it wasn't the norm back then. Today is very different.

Circumcision rates by state.

link?

 

[Butch]

wow, some of the stuff posted is...
for the more sensible and sensitive of you, please look away.

 

[Horse]

link?

Just search 'circumcision rates by state'. Maybe you will learn something.

All the info you will find on both sides of the argument will say the same thing as the numbers come from hospital figures, in states that are allowed to release that info.