Clutchless shifting. Poll 1

[Alexey]

This thread serves as a poll placeholder for the main clutchless shifting thread. This poll inquires about people's techniques with regard to using the clutch. This is a two-part question: what kind of shifting do you do (always with clutch, clutchless upshift, clutchless upshift and downshift) and how many transmission rebuilds do you require (none whatsoever, no more than once every 3 years, no more than once every year, more than one a year).

 

[V4]

maybe I'm doing it wrong but I always use the clutch because it came with the motorcycle...

of all the motorcycles I've owned in over 25 years, I never had to rebuild/replace the clutch...

 

[Carlo]

I used to do it fairly often on my old Royal Enfield Interceptor (750cc vertical twin, definately not like the current models coming from India). I used the kill switch to interrupt the power during upshifts while at full throttle. There was never a sign of problems with excessive wear on the gear dogs.

I still do clutchless shifts on occasion, but never under hard accelleration anymore.

 

[Z3n]

I do full clutchless up on the trackbike and the streetbike a lot of the time, depending on situation. Never had to replace a transmission due to my abuse.

 

[wingnutthehutt]

Hey Alexey, you forgot the option for replacing the clutch "because I've never owned one motorcycle that long."

 

[Skidmarx]

Would this be hard on the transmission, not the clutch?

 

[McBride61]

I do full clutchless up on the trackbike and the streetbike a lot of the time, depending on situation. Never had to replace a transmission due to my abuse.

Have you had to replaced clutches on your bike? If so do you think it was premature do to the shifting or just normal time?

 

[Alexey]

Well, this is interesting. The numbers are still coming in, but it seems a pattern is emerging. Looks like people are either not having mechanical trouble at all or are having lots of it. Could this be a question of technique? Maybe we'll get some additional polls going later to try to glean more info...

 

[Alexey]

Have you had to replaced clutches on your bike? If so do you think it was premature do to the shifting or just normal time?

This poll will not answer it, but if you just look at the construction of a typical modern transmission and clutch, going from clutch to clutchless should alleviate the stress on the clutch (at least the plates and friction discs, which is what you normally replace) and put additional stress onto the transmission, which has been the topic of debate so far.

 

[11B]

This poll will not answer it

+1. A poll is pretty useless imo. Some bikes like cruisers, some beemers, some buells, and motorcycles which have rather large fly wheels are a poor choice for this technique that can definitely result in internal damage.

Additionally, you have experienced riders and proper technique vs low skill and poor technique. For those riders seeing this topic for the 1st time, motorcycles and cars shift very differently. If there isn't a load on the transmission it will shift the same way whether you use a clutch or not. The only way you will bend forks or damage dogs is if you have an abusive technique.

There can actually be 3 positives when using clutchless shifts:

1. You save your clutch and don't need to replace it.
2. Smoother, quicker shifts (especially 2up - no more bumping helmets!).
3. Less engine wear! When you use the clutch (potentially worse the longer it's held in) where do you think excess clutch debris ends up?

However, using the clutch is not a bad thing and is certainly the best choice for new riders. The point I want to make is, depending on what kind of bike you own and the technique you use, your tranny will be fine. It becomes all about riders choice. So, wanna use the clutch? That's ok! Go for it. Wanna use clutchless shift? That's ok too!

 

[iehawk]

There is the 'partial-pull' clutch shifting technique. That's what I use... and mostly on the 3rd gear and higher (upshift-downshift). Don't see that as an option to pick.

 

[Z3n]

Have you had to replaced clutches on your bike? If so do you think it was premature do to the shifting or just normal time?

Nope. I usually get very good life out of my clutches, as I'm selling bikes long before the clutch needs to be replaced. Thanks to a friend who gave me a replacement clutch for my race SV, that got replaced, but it didn't need it, and I'd be more inclined to say that the race starts and practice are going to be the death of my clutch, not the shifting.

Basically, what wears clutches is slipping them. Bikes, with multi-plate clutchs, are very resistant to it, especially the wet clutches, but the abuse of a good race start or launch will definitely wear the hell out of one over time.

Despite voting "full clutchless", I use the clutch quite a bit on shifting anyways.

Personally, my experiences would say that you're more inclined to wear the clutch with non-blip downshifts than you are going to with clutchless upshifts, as clutchless upshifts never disengage the clutch.

 

[Flying Pig]

I fall under the "too new to know wtf I'm doing" category.
Oh yeah, learned to shift with clutch, so been doing that. But meh. Curious to see more feedback on clutchless shifting techniques. :]

 

[fonseca]

Up shifting is sometimes clutch assisted. The clutch is always used when downshifting though.

 

[TheRiddler]

3. Less engine wear! When you use the clutch (potentially worse the longer it's held in) where do you think excess clutch debris ends up?

Never thought of that one before.

 

[TTTom]

you need a poll category for people with slipper clutches who bang it down three gears, dump the clutch just as they're turning in and then drag the bike ass-end-sideways thru the corner

 

[RacerAlx]

I find it's useful to be able to ride without the clutch in case you crash and need to get out of the trouble you just got yourself into. Otherwise a long walk may be in store. I replace my transmission every 3 years and friction plates at least once a year depending my riding/racing time. R1's and liter bikes will wear parts more than smaller cc bikes. It's always good to know how to ride your bike under various scenarios/conditions. The poll doesn't make sense to me. I speedshift when I can and don't when it isn't needed. cheers alx

 

[sifr]

You left out "sometimes". I generally clutch into 2nd, sometimes 3rd, and generally whenever I'm going slow enough or fast enough that going clutchless isn't going to be a completely smooth transition, or rev-matching's going to be a PITA.

 

[Carlo]

+1. A poll is pretty useless imo. Some bikes like cruisers, some beemers, some buells, and motorcycles which have rather large fly wheels are a poor choice for this technique that can definitely result in internal damage.

Additionally, you have experienced riders and proper technique vs low skill and poor technique. For those riders seeing this topic for the 1st time, motorcycles and cars shift very differently. If there isn't a load on the transmission it will shift the same way whether you use a clutch or not. The only way you will bend forks or damage dogs is if you have an abusive technique.

There can actually be 3 positives when using clutchless shifts:

1. You save your clutch and don't need to replace it.
2. Smoother, quicker shifts (especially 2up - no more bumping helmets!).
3. Less engine wear! When you use the clutch (potentially worse the longer it's held in) where do you think excess clutch debris ends up?

However, using the clutch is not a bad thing and is certainly the best choice for new riders. The point I want to make is, depending on what kind of bike you own and the technique you use, your tranny will be fine. It becomes all about riders choice. So, wanna use the clutch? That's ok! Go for it. Wanna use clutchless shift? That's ok too!

Good response. I've rebuilt several motorcycle transmissions over the years, but never because of damage caused by clutchless shifting.
Worn out bearings, damaged gear teeth, worn out shifter mechanisms....

If you interrupt the power somehow while shifting gears, there's no extra stress on the transmission. Use the clutch, chop the throttle, hit the kill button (old britbikes had a spring loaded button, rather than a switch). However you do it, if there's a break in the power delivery, it's ok to shift gears.

 

[11B]

@ Carlo

Since you brought up rebuilding - I was in the military from 91-04, with 7-8 years of those as a mechanic, so although I have never worked on a motorcycle tranny, I'm still aware how the fundamental mechanics (bike, car, truck) operate o_^. Plus, it's always nice to pass along good information so people can make better informed decisions on how they choose to ride.


Edit:

I'm still a bit dumbfounded how 3 people with clutchless upshifts needed tranny work. Maybe they just got unlucky and got a poorly built bike.