Concerning Lights

[Mstaples]

1. While in a rental-cage in L.A., on a four-lane road, an LEO (on an MC) had his flashing lights on, going slow. As I passed, very slowly (no problem apparent) he yelled at me and pointed to his flashing yellow lights. Question: Doesn't flashing yellow lights mean slow down? Since when does it mean not to pass?

2. I am a little concerned about down-shifting on the freeway to slow down, since it doesn't throw on the breaklight. How do you guys handle this sort of thing? Do you pull in the clutch and slow down with your break? What do LEO on motorcycles do?

 

[tchaftantouri]

Even if you are downshifting you can still tap your front brakes a couple of times, just squeeze enough to flash the lights, and hopefully that will get the attention of whoever's behind you.

 

[Sidewalk]

2. I am a little concerned about down-shifting on the freeway to slow down, since it doesn't throw on the breaklight. How do you guys handle this sort of thing? Do you pull in the clutch and slow down with your break? What do LEO on motorcycles do?

This questions belongs in the training area. But...

The engine is not a brake, the brakes are there for a reason. Downshifting should only be used to stay in the power band, nothing more. If you want to slow down, roll off the throttle and squeeze the brake. Even if rolling off a little is enough to slow down, still pull in the brake. In the very least this creates muscle memory so that when you panic, you will automatically roll off and brake when the shit hits the fan.

 

[kross]

I always tap my brakes while I downshift, just to let the idiots behind me know I'm slowing down. Sometimes they have trouble figuring out that if they're maintaining a constant speed and I'm suddenly getting closer, then I must be slowing down.
As far as #1 goes, I don't know what the "rules" are but cops (CHP esp.) will use the yellow lights while moving to make a kind of "rolling roadblock". Usually a car will flip on the lightbar and swerve back and forth across all lanes to slow traffic. Sometimes it's because another unit is pushing a car from the fastlane shoulder to the other side of the freeway, sometimes for ??? Maybe just for fun?
I would assume the swerving thing is not as safe for a MC, but if he's moving it's prolly the same routine. Best not to go around.

 

[CPL]

1. While in a rental-cage in L.A., on a four-lane road, an LEO (on an MC) had his flashing lights on, going slow. As I passed, very slowly (no problem apparent) he yelled at me and pointed to his flashing yellow lights. Question: Doesn't flashing yellow lights mean slow down? Since when does it mean not to pass?

Maybe he was trying to slow traffic down cause of an incident up ahead.

I remember when I got a flat in my rental on the left side of the highway. CHP asks me if I needed help and I said no but I needed to get to the other side of the highway where there is a light pole. He reversed down a ways , turned his flashers on slowing traffic so I can get over to the other side.

 

[Mstaples]

Hey thanks for the input. So it seems that the way to go is to roll off and ease onto the handbrake or maybe the rear brake if so inclined. I like the idea of rolling off and using the handbrake to form a habit. Think I'll go for that.

So this questions should have been under training? Ok. Next time.

 

[Sane_Man]

As far as #1 goes, I don't know what the "rules" are but cops (CHP esp.) will use the yellow lights while moving to make a kind of "rolling roadblock". Usually a car will flip on the lightbar and swerve back and forth across all lanes to slow traffic. Sometimes it's because another unit is pushing a car from the fastlane shoulder to the other side of the freeway, sometimes for ??? Maybe just for fun?
I would assume the swerving thing is not as safe for a MC, but if he's moving it's prolly the same routine. Best not to go around.

I was on I-5 North, just before the grapevine, and a CHP had his yellow lights on and was swerving across all 4-5 lanes of traffic, and fools were still trying to get around him.

In fact, a few did, and the CHP, was making some very aggressive maneuvers.

 

[Mstaples]

Well this situation wasn't at all like that. This was a 4-lane road in the middle of L.A. downtown. The cop was one lane over from the right. He wasn't sweeping back and forth. He was just going slow, like he there was a warning to go slow. I have always understood flashing yellow light to be a caution signal ment to slow you down. That's what is a little confusing. Don't cops also have a flashing red light on the bikes?

It's kind of like the difference between a code-2 (flashing lights, no siren) and a code-3 (flashing light with siren). This may have changed since my days of dealing with this, but it use to be that you don't have to pull over to the side of the road for a code-2. And it seemed to me (could be wrong) that a flashing yellow light on the back of a cop bike under these circumstances would have indicated a caution/slow down. But maybe it means "don't pass me." That's my question.

 

[Sane_Man]

Well this situation wasn't at all like that. This was a 4-lane road in the middle of L.A. downtown. The cop was one lane over from the right. He wasn't sweeping back and forth. He was just going slow, like he there was a warning to go slow. I have always understood flashing yellow light to be a caution signal ment to slow you down. That's what is a little confusing. Don't cops also have a flashing red light on the bikes?

It's kind of like the difference between a code-2 (flashing lights, no siren) and a code-3 (flashing light with siren). This may have changed since my days of dealing with this, but it use to be that you don't have to pull over to the side of the road for a code-2. And it seemed to me (could be wrong) that a flashing yellow light on the back of a cop bike under these circumstances would have indicated a caution/slow down. But maybe it means "don't pass me." That's my question.

They will only sweep to stop all lanes of traffic, plus the yellow lights will only be seen by those behind the patrol vehicle, not by anyone in front of them.

If he was well in his lane and rolling, I would take it to mean do not pass, but if he was going slow and partially off the road, then I would proceed with caution.

 

[Enchanter]

Hey thanks for the input. So it seems that the way to go is to roll off and ease onto the handbrake or maybe the rear brake if so inclined. I like the idea of rolling off and using the handbrake to form a habit. Think I'll go for that.

So this questions should have been under training? Ok. Next time.

Handbrake? Please train your brain to think front brake or rear brake not hand or foot brake. It's a bit nit-picky of me, but saying 'hand brake' doesn't really tell your brain anything about which brake is actually used. Newer riders really need to connect their action to the specific control action on the motorcycle.

 

[SpikedLemon]

This questions belongs in the training area. But...

The engine is not a brake, the brakes are there for a reason. Downshifting should only be used to stay in the power band, nothing more. If you want to slow down, roll off the throttle and squeeze the brake. Even if rolling off a little is enough to slow down, still pull in the brake. In the very least this creates muscle memory so that when you panic, you will automatically roll off and brake when the shit hits the fan.

I dissagree. If you've ever owned a Chevy Crapalier: you'll realized that the engine is a necessary part of the braking system - the car simply cannot stop the car fast enough in emergency situtations with the brakes alone.

I use the engine to slow down all the time. I do, however, tap the brakes if I drop a gear or two just to alert the idiot behind me to pay attention.

 

[QuaiChangKane]

This questions belongs in the training area. But...

The engine is not a brake, the brakes are there for a reason. Downshifting should only be used to stay in the power band, nothing more. If you want to slow down, roll off the throttle and squeeze the brake. Even if rolling off a little is enough to slow down, still pull in the brake. In the very least this creates muscle memory so that when you panic, you will automatically roll off and brake when the shit hits the fan.

I disagree. If you want to slow down while driving a vehicle with an automatic transmission, you let off of the throttle. If you want to slow more, you apply the brakes.

If you want to slow down while driving a vehicle with a manual transmission, you have three options - letting off of the throttle, downshifting, and/or applying the brakes. All have their valid uses, and there are no hard, fast rules - except one: Downshifting will not slow your vehicle any more efficiently when maximum braking is required. In fact, it's more tasks for your hands and feet when your attention should otherwise be focused on effectively applying the brakes.


But as hinted at above, if you do use your engine to slow your motorcycle, flash your brake light as needed to warn traffic behind you that you're slowing - you are constantly checking your six, right?


-Q!

 

[QuaiChangKane]

I dissagree. If you've ever owned a Chevy Crapalier: you'll realized that the engine is a necessary part of the braking system - the car simply cannot stop the car fast enough in emergency situtations with the brakes alone.

I use the engine to slow down all the time. I do, however, tap the brakes if I drop a gear or two just to alert the idiot behind me to pay attention.

Your brakes are strong enough to lock the tires (or trigger the ABS), and so is your engine - but your engine only works on the drive tires. Engine braking offers no better braking than your tires offer traction. Dropping gears and popping the clutch are just too many things taking your focus off of avoiding the hazard that you're braking for - and no more efficient than merely applying the brakes with the clutch disengaged. If your brakes can not lock your tires (or trigger your ABS), you'll need to have them serviced to find out why.


-Q!

 

[ST Guy]

Always make sure you're signalling what you're doing. So, if you're just rolling off the throttle or even down shifting but not using the brakes, at least give them some quick flicks, just enough to activate the brake lights. I use Kisan's brake light modulator, so I'll sometimes activate it without really activating the brakes themselves.

When driving a cage and I come across a situation where I have to slow radically for one reason or another, I immediately punch the emergency flashers. If you're bike is so equiped, you can do the same. It's saved me from being rear ended a few times on the freeway. Nothing is as good at getting a driver's attention than a flashing light. Though some might argue it's too good. But in any case, your odds are better if you're flashing something.

 

[CnDnMax]

But in any case, your odds are better if you're flashing something.

:boobies

 

[Mstaples]

I like the distinction between front/rear versus hand/foot. Nice.

So...in a situation where your brakes are not really necessary -- for instance, you are on the freeway doing...well...70-ish, and traffic slows to 60-ish, so I now have to downshift from a 4th to 3rd, dropping my speed by 10mph, I don't need to do anything with my brakes. You aren't suggesting that I pull in the clutch and brake down to 60, are you? What you are probably saying is that I should roll off, downshift, and probably during the roll off, while my speed is dropping, find a way to hit the front brake. Right?

I'm really learning a lot here, guys. I never really thought of the fact that decelerating by rolling off or down-shifting only uses the rear wheel. I mean it's pretty obvious. It just never occured to me before.

 

[Sidewalk]

Seriously, even if slowing down in your scenario (dropping 10 MPH from 70 MPH and down shifting), I will still roll off and touch the brakes. The clutch is only to smooth the shift. I still won't use the engine for braking (though without argument it will slow me down). If I am slowing, my fingers are pulling on the brake lever, nearly always. Even if all the pads do is glide across the disc with near 0 pressure, I am still touching the lever every time I roll off.

 

[Mstaples]

Seriously, even if slowing down in your scenario (dropping 10 MPH from 70 MPH and down shifting), I will still roll off and touch the brakes. The clutch is only to smooth the shift. I still won't use the engine for braking (though without argument it will slow me down). If I am slowing, my fingers are pulling on the brake lever, nearly always. Even if all the pads do is glide across the disc with near 0 pressure, I am still touching the lever every time I roll off.

Ok. I'll give that a try. I think a little technique adjustment is in order.

 

[Enchanter]

I like the distinction between front/rear versus hand/foot. Nice.

So...in a situation where your brakes are not really necessary -- for instance, you are on the freeway doing...well...70-ish, and traffic slows to 60-ish, so I now have to downshift from a 4th to 3rd, dropping my speed by 10mph, I don't need to do anything with my brakes. You aren't suggesting that I pull in the clutch and brake down to 60, are you? What you are probably saying is that I should roll off, downshift, and probably during the roll off, while my speed is dropping, find a way to hit the front brake. Right?

I'm really learning a lot here, guys. I never really thought of the fact that decelerating by rolling off or down-shifting only uses the rear wheel. I mean it's pretty obvious. It just never occured to me before.

I would think that rolling off of the throttle (not squeezing the clutch) would adjust the speed from 70 to 60 without the need for the brakes or the need for the brake light. If you need to reduce your speed more quickly than the results given by rolling off the throttle, or you need to illuminate the brakes light, then braking (before shifting) is appropriate.