Countershaft threads stripped

[auntiebling]

i bet you'd get a summer worth of use out of it with the splines as is.be sure to lube them with molybdenum paste, actual paste, not grease with molybdenum in it.

if it completely fails you're just stranded... right? shouldn't take anything else with it.

 

[johnkol]

i bet you'd get a summer worth of use out of it with the splines as is.be sure to lube them with molybdenum paste, actual paste, not grease with molybdenum in it.

if it completely fails you're just stranded... right? shouldn't take anything else with it.

You mean something like this Loctite Moly Paste?

If it completely fails... Well, the one right now completely failed and I did not get stranded. Not sure how the CS sprocket kept on spinning when there was virtually no contact with the CS spines.

 

[buellistic]

Only 1/2 was stripped..
I have never seen a bike were the sprocket was not 100% on the splines
Something was wrong....

 

[Tri750]

if it helps, at Sprocket Specialists told me that the markings (numbers/letters) always go out .
if the spacer is a spacer, ok but if it’s a thick concave washer then it’s a Belleville washer, a type of lock washer and is one use only as is your peened nut.
i would use new hardware, bit of moly and bit of Blue Loctite for another season . Red if you’ll actually have it fixed. As said earlier, change that seal too . i had one pop out T1 at Big Willow . weren’t purty, saved it tho.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

If you attempt a tough nut it helps if the engine is first allowed to reached operating temp...

 

[johnkol]

Only 1/2 was stripped..
I have never seen a bike were the sprocket was not 100% on the splines
Something was wrong....

Half of the CS splines, and half of the sprocket splines, which leads me to believe that the nut may have worked loose at some point in time, chewed up the splines, then the owner re-torqued the nut and it has been marginal till now.

if it helps, at Sprocket Specialists told me that the markings (numbers/letters) always go out .
if the spacer is a spacer, ok but if it’s a thick concave washer then it’s a Belleville washer, a type of lock washer and is one use only as is your peened nut.
i would use new hardware, bit of moly and bit of Blue Loctite for another season . Red if you’ll actually have it fixed. As said earlier, change that seal too . i had one pop out T1 at Big Willow . weren’t purty, saved it tho.

The sprocket that was on there had no markings, but it has a grooved side and a flat side; it was installed with the flat side towards the engine. The one I got (Primary Drive) also has a grooved and a flat side, but it also has markings on the flat side, and the instructions say to install it with the markings facing outwards, which confirms what you were told. So if we apply this to the old sprocket, the flat side should have been facing outwards, which means that it was installed backwards.

Still, I don't see how this would have affected the splines. It may have affected the alignment between front and rear sprocket, but even that would have been marginal: when I reversed the sprocket it didn't look any different than being installed the other way.

Both spacers are flat, not concave.

Moly and blue Loctite I will do, but I have a hard time with seals; will I have to heat up the case and freeze the seal in order to install?

If you attempt a tough nut it helps if the engine is first allowed to reached operating temp...

Tough nut?? I can't quite follow.

 

[planegray]

if it helps, at Sprocket Specialists told me that the markings (numbers/letters) always go out .
if the spacer is a spacer, ok but if it’s a thick concave washer then it’s a Belleville washer, a type of lock washer and is one use only as is your peened nut.
i would use new hardware, bit of moly and bit of Blue Loctite for another season . Red if you’ll actually have it fixed. As said earlier, change that seal too . i had one pop out T1 at Big Willow . weren’t purty, saved it tho.

You blew a seal ?

[YouTube]RPXVM3xbdAg[/YouTube]
https://youtu.be/RPXVM3xbdAgh

 

[kuksul08]

hmm that's a tough predicament.

how much is a new engine? might be easier than tearing it completely apart.

I guess I'd weld on the new CS sprocket. Not much else would really work unless you can make some kind of adapter to attach a sprocket to and bolt the sprocket on.

 

[Tri750]

Half of the CS splines, and half of the sprocket splines, which leads me to believe that the nut may have worked loose at some point in time, chewed up the splines, then the owner re-torqued the nut and it has been marginal till now.



The sprocket that was on there had no markings, but it has a grooved side and a flat side; it was installed with the flat side towards the engine. The one I got (Primary Drive) also has a grooved and a flat side, but it also has markings on the flat side, and the instructions say to install it with the markings facing outwards, which confirms what you were told. So if we apply this to the old sprocket, the flat side should have been facing outwards, which means that it was installed backwards.

Still, I don't see how this would have affected the splines. It may have affected the alignment between front and rear sprocket, but even that would have been marginal: when I reversed the sprocket it didn't look any different than being installed the other way.

Both spacers are flat, not concave.

Moly and blue Loctite I will do, but I have a hard time with seals; will I have to heat up the case and freeze the seal in order to install?



Tough nut?? I can't quite follow.

Seals just need some patience to install. They make install drivers, but a correctly chosen socket has worked for many. Just note how deep the new one is installed and use that as a guide. One starts out with very soft taps to start it as many seals have a minute taper. Just go evenly round and round. Don't dent it.
----
I believe he means when addressing a very tough to loosen nut.
A bit of heat from the engine being at running temp.

 

[seadog]

Yea, I don't think you'll make the shaft/sprocket any worse than it is by riding it. You'll need new parts at some point.

If you have trouble getting a purchase on the seal you can drill and tap the seal, then use a screw like a jacking bolt and work the seal out that way. Use two or three jack screws. I had to think about how to say that without writing; "you can jack it off".

You should be able to install the new seal with a large socket. If you don't have a socket that big you can get a piece of pipe of the same diameter as the seal and have the ends cut square, e.g. with pipe cutter. Don't use a hacksaw, sawzall or band saw. The ends of the pipe won't be square and the new seal won't go in correctly.

 

[johnkol]

how much is a new engine? might be easier than tearing it completely apart.

Used engines on eBay go for about $2k, which is absurd: I can have Thumper Racing split the cases and install a stroker crank and overbore kit for about $1k; replacing the countershaft won't add much to that bill.

Seals just need some patience to install. They make install drivers, but a correctly chosen socket has worked for many.

You should be able to install the new seal with a large socket.

The problem I have always had with seals is how to initially insert them; by design, all seals are ever so slightly larger than the opening, so how does one squeeze in the very first part of them? The last time I attempted such an installation it took me hours to get it in; tried heating up the surface with a heat gun and freezing the seal, but that did not work either.

 

[auntiebling]

You mean something like this Loctite Moly Paste?

If it completely fails... Well, the one right now completely failed and I did not get stranded. Not sure how the CS sprocket kept on spinning when there was virtually no contact with the CS spines.

Yeah that looks like a good one.

 

[seadog]

The problem I have always had with seals is how to initially insert them; by design, all seals are ever so slightly larger than the opening, so how does one squeeze in the very first part of them?

I completely agree with you and I really have no easy solution. I usually get a driver (socket, pipe, etc.) that's the correct size (rides on the outer metal part of the seal) line it up and give it a good whack. At least to get it started. Then tap-tap-tap until it's seated.

 

[Sharky]

The similar nut on my R6 loosens all the time even when torqued correctly. That’s y it gets peened and safety wired on my bike. It’s such a bad design. The M10 (iirc) bolt on my CBR is half the torque, is ez to work on, and doesn’t come loose ever.

I wonder if the prev owner ran the bike without the nut peened. It loosened, the sprocket moved over, and riding on it destroyed half the splines. Then they tightened everything without replacing the sprocket.

This.
Get a new sprocket and nut, put it back together and run it. If it completely strips, oh well, you have to split the cases anyways.

 

[johnkol]

Get a new sprocket and nut, put it back together and run it. If it completely strips, oh well, you have to split the cases anyways.

Yes, that's exactly what I am planning on doing: put a new sprocket and nut, and run it. It appears that even if the splines completely shear, the sprocket does not slip due to the excessive clamping force of the nut.

I will re-inspect the condition of the countershaft splines once the riding season is over, and go from there.