• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

Covid Omicron

Status
Not open for further replies.
We agree that over 50% of our population do not meet satisfactory health metrics so as a nation we can’t simply allow things to run its course?

But statistically, it would suggest age had a much more important role is positive outcome.

You can correlate health to age but that won’t apply to children.
 
It has always been, survival of the fittest. Don't you remember the Martians died because they had no immunity to our bugs.

I was in the Dr. office this morning. He informed me that 70% of his staff was out sick. His assistant got sick over the weekend and was out since Monday. I had to open my mouf for him to poke his finger in.
 
I was in the Dr. office this morning. He informed me that 70% of his staff was out sick. His assistant got sick over the weekend and was out since Monday. I had to open my mouf for him to poke his finger in.

Yeah, I don't get it. Banks have this 9' thick plexiglass and are pretty much in a security bubble, but Dr. offices have a sliding window and paper mask. Just continue the trend into full bore impersonal and make me feel like the shlep they make everyone into, already. At least they won't be home sick then...

We agree that over 50% of our population do not meet satisfactory health metrics so as a nation we can’t simply allow things to run its course?

But statistically, it would suggest age had a much more important role is positive outcome.

You can correlate health to age but that won’t apply to children.

Up to about 40 Y/O, Hypertension is around 22% (or so). As people age, it gets worse and worse which correlates directly with C-19 outcomes. No surprise that as we age, we're more susceptible to all kinds of shitty health outcomes that children are not. That doesn't preclude the reality that hypertension might emerge as THE most contributory factor in both C-19 deaths from unvaccinated AND vaccinated. I haven't seen a study on both categories of vaccination status & hypertension yet. I suspect the relation is close given the effects HT has on cardiovascular outcomes. Additionally, information is emerging that C-19 infections will drive hypertension as well (for a period of time).Stacking that on top of existing HT will be highly contributory to negative outcomes. If C-19 drives HT, I'd expect the vaccine itself will drive HT, but not enough study has been done and those that have been done show one thing conclusively: respondents aren't aware what their BP is at any given point. The post vax measurement may be more/ less/ even if they don't know what their typical BP is. I've noticed an increase in BP by a few points since catching C-19 and only recently, seeing it drop back to it's lower number (my Systolic moved more than diastolic). Then again, this was in the Dr. office after getting out of a car/ walking in, etc. I'd like to see more study here as it seems worthy of relational treatments, preventative messaging, etc.

“Early reports from areas of the world most affected by COVID-19 showed higher morbidity and mortality rates in patients with conditions like hypertension, coronary artery disease, diabetes and obesity,” says Dr. Steven Rough, a cardiologist affiliated with Sharp Chula Vista Medical Center. “What was found is COVID infects the cells that help regulate blood pressure, suggesting a possible link between hypertension and severe COVID infection. More studies are needed to determine if there is, in fact, a cause and effect.”

https://www.sharp.com/health-news/high-blood-pressure-s-connection-to-covid-19.cfm

I still see the continued reluctance to help guide Americans in positive health choices/ awareness/ outcomes as ineffective messaging and leadership from those tasked with national and state health outcomes. Give the American people a task, and challenge them to complete it. The outcomes will be uniquely personal. Like wearing a helmet...
 
Yeah, I don't get it. Banks have this 9' thick plexiglass and are pretty much in a security bubble, but Dr. offices have a sliding window and paper mask. Just continue the trend into full bore impersonal and make me feel like the shlep they make everyone into, already. At least they won't be home sick then...

One of the worst reviews an MD can get is "poor bedside manners", "being coldhearted", and "not caring about their patient" and you want to put them behind plexiglass :laughing

All subjective patient facing metrics plummeted after Drs started wearing masks full time and not just for non-flu vaccinated staff. Most Drs I know get the flu shot for

Up to about 40 Y/O, Hypertension is around 22% (or so). As people age, it gets worse and worse which correlates directly with C-19 outcomes. No surprise that as we age, we're more susceptible to all kinds of shitty health outcomes that children are not. That doesn't preclude the reality that hypertension might emerge as THE most contributory factor in both C-19 deaths from unvaccinated AND vaccinated. I haven't seen a study on both categories of vaccination status & hypertension yet. I suspect the relation is close given the effects HT has on cardiovascular outcomes. Additionally, information is emerging that C-19 infections will drive hypertension as well (for a period of time).Stacking that on top of existing HT will be highly contributory to negative outcomes. If C-19 drives HT, I'd expect the vaccine itself will drive HT, but not enough study has been done and those that have been done show one thing conclusively: respondents aren't aware what their BP is at any given point. The post vax measurement may be more/ less/ even if they don't know what their typical BP is. I've noticed an increase in BP by a few points since catching C-19 and only recently, seeing it drop back to it's lower number (my Systolic moved more than diastolic). Then again, this was in the Dr. office after getting out of a car/ walking in, etc. I'd like to see more study here as it seems worthy of relational treatments, preventative messaging, etc.

https://www.sharp.com/health-news/high-blood-pressure-s-connection-to-covid-19.cfm

Hypertension is typically viewed as a symptom of or a precursor to obesity. Same with a lot of other "disease states". Often times it's chicken:egg scenario.

I alluded to it earlier, but this is medicine, there are no absolutes. The definition of hypertension can change. Today it is viewed as a blood pressure of 130/80. It used to be 140/90, so why the change? It increases the amount of people diagnosed but doesn't actually change anything since you don't go on medication until Stage 1... Oh it's because people don't change their lifesytems

Normal: Less than 120/80 mm Hg;

Elevated: Top number (systolic) between 120-129 and bottom number (diastolic) less than 80;

Stage 1: Systolic between 130-139 or diastolic between 80-89;

Stage 2: Systolic at least 140 or diastolic at least 90 mm Hg;

Hypertensive crisis: Top number over 180 and/or bottom number over 120, with patients needing prompt changes in medication if there are no other indications of problems, or immediate hospitalization if there are signs of organ damage.
​

I still see the continued reluctance to help guide Americans in positive health choices/ awareness/ outcomes as ineffective messaging and leadership from those tasked with national and state health outcomes. Give the American people a task, and challenge them to complete it. The outcomes will be uniquely personal. Like wearing a helmet...

The change in blood pressure numbers is solely because people do not change their behaviors. Drs have been messaging every patient between 130/80 to 140/90 (about 14% of the population) forever that they have pre-hypertension and nothing changes.

Telling Americans to just be healthier...
pablo.jpg


So we go back to... when a large portion of your population is at risk you have to do something about it. What we've been doing isn't working so :dunno

Reluctance to guide, have you ever heard of the food pyramid? CDC has been promoting healthy eating and exercise in its recommendations for as long as I have been alive. Maybe if the most obese states were more concerned about their health and less concerned about CRT than change could begin.

I bet in a venn diagram there would be significant overlap between those hospitalized with covid, those with hypertension, and those that had grocery stores that sold fresh fruit and vegetables greater than 1-2 miles from their home. Food deserts exist, right here in good ol' CA too. Adam just posted how excited he was that a grocery store finally opened in BVHP... and then posted how disappointed he was that the majority of food available was prepared.
 
Last edited:
Matt, I don’t know whether health and lifestyle has that much effect of blood pressure. Mine is quite high; not uncommon for me to be in hypertensive crisis range. I’m in decent shape but am heavier than ideal. Have been brining eight down and am halfway to my goal. Our diet is very low in sodium. None of these thing seem to move the needle. My Dr says a lot of her patients’ numbers drop after they retire. Not quite in the cards yet.

Tried meds but the effect was minimal and side effects were worse than the condition. Won’t even consider meds until I lean out and see if there is any change.

My BP has been high since I started paying attention in my 30’s. At the time, I was very lean and very fit.
 
That's what I was inferring with my above, sorry I didn't make it clear

Medical is outcome based so high has a direct correlation and significance to having a negative heart outcome in your lifetime.

It’s vague but accurate

Correlation = causation? It's medicine. Maybe. Maybe not. It's just what we know today.

I am the same way, since my first teenage physical. I have had elevated blood pressure and high triglycerides. I was also 20#s underweight and ate well, preferred seafood and chicken, hated bacon and beef.

As I aged and gained weight (6'4 245), nothing has changed. As I've lost weight (now under 200), it's still the same. Elevated blood pressure and elevated triglycerides.
 
Adding: when discussing "public health" you can't look at outliers. You have to look at majorities (correlations) which is why tacking swag approaches can work.

I'm all for personal responsibility but I am also a realist in terms of public health and the impacts/importance to our economy as a whole.
 
Last edited:
One of the worst reviews an MD can get is "poor bedside manners", "being coldhearted", and "not caring about their patient" and you want to put them behind plexiglass :laughing.

Billing/ front desk staff. Not Doctors. Docs need to be in person.

Hypertension is typically viewed as a symptom of or a precursor to obesity. Same with a lot of other "disease states". Often times it's chicken:egg scenario.

I alluded to it earlier, but this is medicine, there are no absolutes. The definition of hypertension can change. Today it is viewed as a blood pressure of 130/80. It used to be 140/90, so why the change? It increases the amount of people diagnosed but doesn't actually change anything since you don't go on medication until Stage 1... Oh it's because people don't change their lifestyles.

The change in blood pressure numbers is solely because people do not change their behaviors. Drs have been messaging every patient between 130/80 to 140/90 (about 14% of the population) forever that they have pre-hypertension and nothing changes.

I bet in a venn diagram there would be significant overlap between those hospitalized with covid, those with hypertension, and those that had grocery stores that sold fresh fruit and vegetables greater than 1-2 miles from their home. Food deserts exist, right here in good ol' CA too. Adam just posted how excited he was that a grocery store finally opened in BVHP... and then posted how disappointed he was that the majority of food available was prepared.

We agree on much here. On quick glance, yes: Americans by an large lack a commitment, much less an actual caring, about their personal health until it's too late. In fact, there's an overarching offense when unhealthy habits or lifestyle choices are discussed. A wall of denial. That's probably the first wall to climb over.
The article that hypertension drives negative outcomes is no surprise. Nor is it that a near majority of Americans (and world pops) suffer from HT. Ok. so we've got a problem and we've identified the problem. What's the plan going forward?

I'd expect using our government school systems to focus on health outcomes for post graduates and I (kinda) hoped for using our latest pandemic for health education and encouragement, not arguments about vaccine bad/good and mandates of masking, all the while driving the population into worse health choices. We've made bad decisions as individuals and a society, IMO. The recompense is a deep dive review and recommendations to our people about what worked and what did not work as well as, what work is left to do.

In regards to HT solely: while there's a correlation between it and many debilitating and potentially mortal outcomes, we haven't been able to convince the general public to pay attention to it. Sure, swallow a Lipitor and continue on, but overall, "Sicko" was a documentary. American life has gotten sedentary enough that we need actual facilities to "work out" at for our own health benefits. We haven't adjusted, we've simply prescribed and move on. In totality, this was the pathway to the pandemic. Now that we've learned much about Covid-19, we know what we've always known: personal health and family genetics will determine one's outcome for their age group.

Pre-existing conditions being one of the largest factors.

The concept of reducing the effect of those pre existing conditions is with a minority of the population. We should be looking to change that with a charge from leadership. We've all got some affliction that screws us up in one way or another...your late 30's/ early 40's is about where it's a make-it or break-it for lifestyle choices. That's the target to hit head on with marketing and messaging, IMO. Tax breaks for athletic memberships and gear? Sure, why not? Currently, companies are not allowed to write off "wellness" programs or equipment that is outside the traditional medical sphere. This excludes fitness and exercise. Mental fitness? Massive. Massive in depression and thus, the spiral downward in mental and physical results.

....aaaaannnnd, I'm off the reservation at this point. My bad for dragging on.

Matt, I don’t know whether health and lifestyle has that much effect of blood pressure. Mine is quite high; not uncommon for me to be in hypertensive crisis range. I’m in decent shape but am heavier than ideal. Have been brining eight down and am halfway to my goal. Our diet is very low in sodium. None of these thing seem to move the needle. My Dr says a lot of her patients’ numbers drop after they retire. Not quite in the cards yet.

Tried meds but the effect was minimal and side effects were worse than the condition. Won’t even consider meds until I lean out and see if there is any change.

My BP has been high since I started paying attention in my 30’s. At the time, I was very lean and very fit.

I've always known high BP to be a combo of genes and choices....but more genes. Certainly external stressors are a large factor, but you're diametric to the majority of Americans doing very little to care for their health aside from pills and treatments. Good to read you're doing things with meds as a last resort. I'm in the same boat regarding asthma. I can make it work with diet changes, regular intense exercise and sleep. And I suck at sleep. Horrible, there.

Keep at it Andy. I won't say that a healthy lifestyle is a panacea for all potential afflictions, but I do believe it's got the best % to affect a higher quality life. People don't like this message many times, but they shouldn't be castigated for such the dislike, but brought into the fold of an active lifestyle...which tends to lead to healthier choices all around. Won't matter much for me...I'm sure I'm gonna die from something I catch from detailing supplies or inhaling race gas...
 
BP certainly can be affected by heredity as does cholesterol. The big thing with HBP is kidney damage. This is where diet and lifestyle come into play. If one’s BP runs a bit higher than “normal”, diet and lifestyle can mitigate damage. Health markers such as EGFR being abasic metric.
As you get older, vascular elasticity seems to be a player. I have friends with HBP that are and have always been healthy. What I have noticed with a few of them is the way they are treated for their HBP, and the drugs they are given, open a can of worms. Almost all are started on HCTZ and admonished to eat a low sodium diet. Forcing out water pharmacologically and restricting sodium create an environment that PROMOTES water retention because the body reacts in an attempt at homeostasis.

My BP still runs around 110/70. I induce “borderline HBP” when I force feed the calories and my bodyweight gets in the 230 range. It only gets to the 130/80 range but I mitigate it with 5mg of ramipril. It stays back at my normal range on only this.

I know this is a (endless) covid thread but all this HBP talk promted me to add my thoughts.
 
And to add to Berto’s last post:

Every single visit I have had with doctors (except one stellar guy), in discussion of lab results, the only talk is what drug to prescribe for this or what for that. Not once was the topic of diet and lifestyle change brought up. I was told I exercise too much, which averages under six hours per week.

Like Hollywood does with clichés and boring predictability, so does the medical community in large, appealing only to what is expected and popularized. Get a pill. Take a shot.
 
I'm kind of curious why China is still doing lockdowns in their country, at the rate that they're moving on this pandemic, they'll still be doing lockdowns 5 years from now.
 
And to add to Berto’s last post:

Every single visit I have had with doctors (except one stellar guy), in discussion of lab results, the only talk is what drug to prescribe for this or what for that. Not once was the topic of diet and lifestyle change brought up. I was told I exercise too much, which averages under six hours per week.

Like Hollywood does with clichés and boring predictability, so does the medical community in large, appealing only to what is expected and popularized. Get a pill. Take a shot.

To give a counter point, I understand why we give shots and pills; Americans (and really, all people) aren't focused on how personal health truly is until things are irredeemable. We haven't taught that at all. We've been taught since kids to "See a doctor. Take the medicine". Only when we became adults did most of us who've changed their lifestyles do so on our own, looking for livability answers to lifelong maladies. Mine have been allergies and asthma. It really makes sense that way too: we spend 24 hours a day with ourselves. Doctors spend 10 minutes if that. A month.

I see our message as the same and unique: you're your own best observer and care provider with the help of a doctor. The more info we can give, the better. The more trial and error we can do for better outcomes, the better.

The real story of Covid that will likely never get written is tat Covid wasn't about a pandemic; it was about a virus that attacked the health of all Americans who were unprepared to fight the virus, even with a vaccine. There will be more of these virus. People would be wise to make changes (should they be needed) to account for the coming Virus's. I suspect Covid's affect on the CNS will become more known with time/ study on Long Term Covid individuals. Athletic studies have shown some not great signs:

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/covid-19-return-to-sport-or-strenuous-activity-following-infection

And God I hope I'm wrong.
 
Doctors spend 10 minutes if that. A month.

I think in past 25 years, I've spent a total of 6 hours actually 1:1 with a Dr. I've had my current primary for about 15 years, and he really has not examined anything more than blood pressure and a stethoscope, and a routine 6-pack of blood tests. Who's getting 10 minutes a month and for what?
 
I get 30 minutes every six months or so. But I feel it’s more to satisfy the hours of the doctor’s payroll. I commonly have elevated LFTs so the doctor ordered an ultrasound of my liver. I went in to have blood drawn an hour before my ultrasound. Find out later the doctor only ordered lipid panel. I was right there. They could have checked my liver fuction. Discovered an enlarged liver. Now he’ll order another LFT. I cancelled my appointment with him for today.

If you are looking for physicians to look after your health, you are a fool.
 
There is mounting evidence that Ivermectin can cause liver damage. If your liver issue is a recent development, this might be worth looking at.
 
Because it's rude to suggest the far less common alcohol abuse, STD's, Drug use, and obesity triggers. The ones the population tends to forget about, VS ivermectin.

But, that does bring up the data point that those with CLD have a 2X greater chance of death as well, as one would likely expect.
 
Because it's rude to suggest the far less common alcohol abuse, STD's, Drug use, and obesity triggers. The ones the population tends to forget about, VS ivermectin.

But, that does bring up the data point that those with CLD have a 2X greater chance of death as well, as one would likely expect.

Three outta four ain’t bad.
 
We agree on much here.
....aaaaannnnd, I'm off the reservation at this point. My bad for dragging on.

We could talk about this forever because we largely agree on it. Public school funding is being gutted 7 ways from Sunday. I recall being taught the food pyramid and having actual nutrition classes. I remember PE, as early as 3rd grade. I remember having to run a mile for time as being part of the grade. I doubt that's happening today...

Like Hollywood does with clichés and boring predictability, so does the medical community in large, appealing only to what is expected and popularized. Get a pill. Take a shot.

Dr's give medicines because the work, mostly. Also, they're probably tired of telling the same people the same thing every year. The medicines are just a delay for the patient. Goes back to Berto's comment. Some point, you reach an age where it either clicks and you get healthy or it doesn't and you live on meds. Patient has to make the big decision. Dr can't.

Why would you think I ever took ivermectin?

eh, I think you've supported the consumption of it AND he doesn't know you.

Because it's rude to suggest the far less common alcohol abuse, STD's, Drug use, and obesity triggers. The ones the population tends to forget about, VS ivermectin.

But, that does bring up the data point that those with CLD have a 2X greater chance of death as well, as one would likely expect.

I used to be a frequent consumer of alcohol, still partake every now and then but when I was a boozer, I got my panels done every 6 months. Easy to spot trends and what not when you have actual data. Never had to adjust my lifestyle from poor liver/kidney performance.

If I had to wager, I would suggest its more likely to come from his body building lifestyle because he is a beefcake :rawr: (not suggesting you were attributing it to anything)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top