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Crashing School

ctwo

ctwo

Merely Rhetorical
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Location
auf der motobahn
Moto(s)
motato
Name
Heyou
I saw video of a guy spill on the S280 - 101 interchange. He rolled a couple times and then came up to a jog on his feet. He couldn't run that fast and fell again, but was mostly unhurt except scrapes from no gear.

I read a post here by tokyodelicious saying to learn how to slide so you don't tumble and break your bones.

I've read a lot about avoiding crashing and evaluating crashing and crash stats, but not much about surviving a crash. How to fall, land, and not get hurt doing it.

I had a similar thought about what or how to crash, when that is what is going to happen. Such as, if you cooked a turn and the bike and you physically cannot make it - not a target fixation problem - what do you do at that point to lessen the injury?

Who teaches how to crash and where can you practice?
 
Sliding will burn you but rolling/flopping will break you.
I'll take the burns, please.
 
Depends on how you enter the crash too. If you high side, there will be a fair amount of tumbling.

I think the best way to learn how to "possibly" crash is to take dirt courses. You'll have the ability to crash with full gear on hopefully something softer than concrete.
 
NoTraffic said:
Depends on how you enter the crash too. If you high side, there will be a fair amount of tumbling.

I think the best way to learn how to "possibly" crash is to take dirt courses. You'll have the ability to crash with full gear on hopefully something softer than concrete.
Click to expand...

Agree. High sides are bad. Dirt helps teach two things

1. How not to crash once a bike loses traction, and...

2. Crash you will, but at lower speeds on a more forgiving surface with a light weight bike.
 
ctwo said:
I saw video of a guy spill on the S280 - 101 interchange. He rolled a couple times and then came up to a jog on his feet. He couldn't run that fast and fell again, but was mostly unhurt except scrapes from no gear.

I read a post here by tokyodelicious saying to learn how to slide so you don't tumble and break your bones.

I've read a lot about avoiding crashing and evaluating crashing and crash stats, but not much about surviving a crash. How to fall, land, and not get hurt doing it.

I had a similar thought about what or how to crash, when that is what is going to happen. Such as, if you cooked a turn and the bike and you physically cannot make it - not a target fixation problem - what do you do at that point to lessen the injury?

Who teaches how to crash and where can you practice?
Click to expand...

Racing an AFM season has helped me practice a lot :laughing
 
ctwo said:
I had a similar thought about what or how to crash, when that is what is going to happen. Such as, if you cooked a turn and the bike and you physically cannot make it - not a target fixation problem - what do you do at that point to lessen the injury?
Click to expand...

I don't know of a school that teaches people how to crash, but if you want, I can get a truck with a lift gate, set it a couple of inches off the ground, have someone drive it at 60 mph and push you off. :laughing

More seriously, it isn't something people willingly practice (other than stunt people) because you don't have a high degree of control over the outcome. As others have mentioned, how you get into the crash (highside vs. lowside) makes a big difference in how banged up you're likely to get.

In most cases, the one thing the rider can do to lessen injury is relax, no matter what else is happening. Our bodies aren't designed for the forces generated by a fall at speeds much faster than we can run. Stiffening limbs, sticking out a hand or otherwise actively trying to do something during the fall is more likely to lead to bone breaking injuries, whereas staying loose is more likely to avoid those. This is a lot easier said than done, but wearing good gear that doesn't wear through in a slide makes it possible. It would be nearly impossible to stay relaxed if you're getting flayed alive during a big slide.

Making sure you've stopped sliding before you try to move or get up is the other main "skill." As in the video you mentioned, sometimes riders think they've stopped moving before they really have. The result can be somewhere between comical and grievous if they try to stand up too soon.

Lastly, some people just break more easily than others. I know people who have taken many high speed falls and who never get hurt (I'm one of these). Other people seem to break like glass in a relatively mild lowside. We're not all built the same.
 
I have been dismounted a fair number of times. There is a big difference between riding off road or on a track vs road and street get offs.

When I rode dirt a lot there was always the thought that something unexpected could de-horse me and even though I hit the deck a few times, I was prepared to mitigate the effects.
Kind of the same on the track, not so much that you expect to crash out, just that you're prepared mentally to protect yourself.

Not so with road hazards or traffic incidents when things are unexpected, and out of your control for the most part.
"Wildlife encounters" being the hardest to deal with, in my experience, like the 300 lb buck that charged in to me on Hwy 1 in 2006.
 
I agree with what's been said regarding the difference between dirt and street. With this caveat, dirt is a great place to break bones depending on where/how you crash. On an uneven grippy surface, for the most part on dirt you do not slide and often can come to an abrupt halt. Such as the face of jump, etc.

Having said that, especially if you can find a smooth dirt track, sliding out provides a forgiving surface. Of course, high sides are still possible with the aforementioned results of broken bonz.

So yeah, dirt is a great place to practice crashes, if you are so inclined, just don't pin it thinking you have impunity.
 
"Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance."

I am convinced that 2 things happen the longer you ride, you learn that nothing can be taken for granted when you throw a leg over, and that one miscalculation can land you in a world of hurt.

When I was 16 and learning to ride on my first bike, I hadn't developed the ability to balance risks. I was lucky to have had good teachers, and a lot of luck in the first 20 years of riding, but acquired a false sense of invincibility, too.

My second 20 years, I experienced my first couple of crashes, including one catastrophic wildlife hit. I learned some valuable lessons, mainly that shit sometimes happens no matter how good you think you are, and that having a highly-developed ability to anticipate hazards and difficult road conditions is critical to your riding life-span.

The many R.I.P. threads we have seen here, just in the last 15 years are a small % of the actual fatal or moto-ending incidents that have occurred in the same time frame.

Now in my 3rd 20 years of riding my priorities are focused on avoiding crashes and continuing to develop the skills and cunning that have allowed me to get this far.

I rarely, if ever, have lapses in attention and am always "planning way ahead" on every ride, all the time. I still ride fast when the conditions are right, and am not "skittish" by any means. But I know the price of fucking up is higher as you age, and recovery outcome from any serious injury might mean the end of motorcycling for me.

There are no immunity deals.
 
I definitely think you can be 'good' at crashing.

But I think it is developed from a very young age crashing bicycles and skateboards and stuff over and over. It becomes instinctual. Also your base level of coordination is a big part of it.

If you are a full grown adult wanting to learn how to crash better, I think your ship has pretty much sailed.
 
ive crashed plenty of times. heres what works for me.

1. don't plan to crash. actually try to make the corner. more often that not, u can.
2. don't plan to crash.
3. tuck your shoulders in & pull your hands to your chest.
4. aggressively try to separate any limbs from the bike.
5. wait another few seconds after you think uve stopped moving

thats about it.
 
I have a memory of reading an article a long time ago that said you break bones when you tumble at lower speeds, and you slide at higher speeds (over 30 mph?)

It didn't say much about what to do following the transition from high speed to below 30 mph.

I've long been fascinated by the reflex that has us trying to stand as soon as possible,with little regard for (no perception of?) The speed we are doing. Seems like a good reflex if you are running from a bear.
 
ive slid and tumbled at both high and low speeds. fastest tumble might have been near 80mph. slowest slide started <20mph. ive even done slide-tumble-slide-tumble. the only conclusion I can draw from my anecdotes is that anything is possible :laughing
 
stangmx13 said:
ive crashed plenty of times. heres what works for me.

1. don't plan to crash. actually try to make the corner. more often that not, u can.
2. don't plan to crash.
3. tuck your shoulders in & pull your hands to your chest.
4. aggressively try to separate any limbs from the bike.
5. wait another few seconds after you think uve stopped moving

thats about it.
Click to expand...
I concur! Especially #1.
The motorcycle is perfect and only responds to my inputs. Took me awhile to get over the fear that I was going too fast for the turn, afterall if I pucker and run off I'm still likely to crash.
 
A couple good posts, Gixxerjeff and Robert.

My first observation is that most crashes are so sudden and violent that any plan you may have is like Mike Tyson's opponent after one punch. Somebody asked him why he went out so violently and hard at the bell. He said that "everyone's plan changes after you hit them in the face." I don't believe in tucking vs rolling. In most crashes you are on the ground seeing earth sky earth sky before you even know you crashed.

It's what you do then that counts. Get your hands to your chest, and remember not to stand up until you have stopped moving.

I've had one bad roller, over the crest of T9 at Thill, when someone clipped my front wheel as it was unloaded at the crest. I had the misfortune to hit longitudinally to the track and rolling. I heard the shoulder separate ( damn sure felt it) on the second roll, but kept on rolling for a few more. Most of my crashes have been sliders.

You can plan all you want, but when that fist hits you in the face......
 
afm199 said:
....
My first observation is that most crashes are so sudden and violent that any plan you may have is like Mike Tyson's opponent after one punch. Somebody asked him why he went out so violently and hard at the bell. He said that "everyone's plan changes after you hit them in the face." I don't believe in tucking vs rolling. In most crashes you are on the ground seeing earth sky earth sky before you even know you crashed.
....
You can plan all you want, but when that fist hits you in the face......
Click to expand...

Basically that.

When you go down with acrobatic grace and end up with no booboos, you think "I know what I am doing!"

When you have a sudden impact collision and you're being loaded in to a meat wagon, you think "That fucking (Insert Hazard here) was unavoidable."
 
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