D211 NTEC v Pirelli Superbike Pro Slick

[megaspaz]

Even the mighty mighty NTECs can only protect against so much hamfistedness. But shit, if I were on Pirellis....i would've reached low earth orbit.

don't sell yer skills short... you coulda probably hit medium earth orbit...

 

[stangmx13]

Yup no doubt - but there is another important factor in track days where there are riders on track with a huge range of ability and lap times. This seems to be more so in B Group where I am for now.

So part of my strategy for staying rubber side down is to have grip in reserve so that I have the option of taking evasive action when I need to.

To put it another way, never again do I want to find myself riding at the edge of grip when the rider in front sits up mid corner to look behind for his buddy

this point led me to some interesting thoughts. can we actually apply any more load to a tire midcorner when taking an evasive action?? i mean, assuming youve already set your speed and lean angle is max'd out, evasive action just means youll pick the bike up and slow down. this def isnt more load. and if you do something silly like attempt to increase lean angle or chop the throttle or something, no amount of grip will save you on that one.

 

[DonJigweed]

and if you do something silly like attempt to increase lean angle or chop the throttle or something, no amount of grip will save you on that one.

Great example! Shit happens in front of you while cranked over with your knee down. If you're a putz like me, you might uncontrollably chop the throttle. On a lesser tire, I might be on my head. On the best tire money can buy, I might stay upright. Is the extra $50 a set (or whatever it is) worth it to me? You betcha!

 

[stangmx13]

a great tire will save the front end. but a good throttle chop will unload the rear and i really dont think itll matter what tire you have back there. training yourself to ride better/smarter >>> buying better tires, but we probably already knew that and its not the pt.

 

[afm199]

Yup no doubt - but there is another important factor in track days where there are riders on track with a huge range of ability and lap times. This seems to be more so in B Group where I am for now.

So part of my strategy for staying rubber side down is to have grip in reserve so that I have the option of taking evasive action when I need to.

To put it another way, never again do I want to find myself riding at the edge of grip when the rider in front sits up mid corner to look behind for his buddy

You won't come close to using the grip on the SC Pros, much less the Ntecs. Spinning up the tire when it is on its edge will happen with either if you are ham fisted.

 

[OldMadBrit]

this point led me to some interesting thoughts. can we actually apply any more load to a tire midcorner when taking an evasive action?? i mean, assuming youve already set your speed and lean angle is max'd out, evasive action just means youll pick the bike up and slow down. this def isnt more load. and if you do something silly like attempt to increase lean angle or chop the throttle or something, no amount of grip will save you on that one.

I make a big distinction between racing and track days. I can't really comment about racing bikes because I have never done that. But I used to race cars in SCCA and did tons of car track days and track day instructing. What I learned there I now apply to bikes. Which is:

1) in a race with other racers who I know and trust, I run 10/10ths all the time because everybody around me is at 10/10ths and we all know what we are doing.

2) in a track day, its not a race and I have no clue about the competencey of those around me. So just like riding on the street, I assume that somebody is going to do something sketchy and plan for it.

So what I learned in cars is that when you are racing, its OK and even advantageous to trade off grip for life because you are testing the limits of grip all the time and have an intimate knowledge of where you are.

Track days are a whole different thing and crazy unexpected stuff is going to happen. So unless I am alone on a section of track and not catching up to a slower group, I am never at max anything (lean angle, brake or throttle). Whenever I have others around me I always try to keep somthing in reserve - so when shit happens I have a good chance of keeping out of it.

And yes I really have had riders sit up mid corner to look for his buddy - in the middle of Infineon's carousel , in T2 at Thunderhill and in Laguna Seca's Corkscrew and each time I had enough in reserve to steer round them

 

[Lazerus]

a great tire will save the front end. but a good throttle chop will unload the rear and i really dont think itll matter what tire you have back there. training yourself to ride better/smarter >>> buying better tires, but we probably already knew that and its not the pt.

I can't imagine the rear coming around from chopping the throttle... if anything it would push the front. My reasoning behind that is that the only time the rear gets loose for me under deceleration is max effort braking and rough downshifts, but then, there are corners that I'm still braking to the apex, and the throttle is closed with the RPM's way up and the rear doesn't come around. I can understand the dynamics of an unloaded rear causing a crash, just don't think engine braking alone can generate the energy needed to do so

So what I learned in cars is that when you are racing, its OK and even advantageous to trade off grip for life because you are testing the limits of grip all the time and have an intimate knowledge of where you are.

Very good point I know that after a year of racing, I am much more comfortable riding on a tire with less grip than I was when doing trackdays only. My reasons were different though. It was more a matter of wanting a tire that had more grip than I could use so I'd never have to "save it".

If you get a chance, do a Ken Hill day. He's really good at teaching you how to go fast while still demanding little in the way of grip from the tires

 

[afm199]

I'll try one more time. The most expensive race tire out there is not going to save you from stupid. Neither is the Supercorsa Pro. Both of them have more traction than a slow ( or medium) A group rider will ever need.

I'll also put out that riding on a tire with compromised traction does not mean you crash, it means you learn about how motos work. If you learn slow you might crash, but you probably will anyway.

 

[Yody]

I'll try one more time. The most expensive race tire out there is not going to save you from stupid. Neither is the Supercorsa Pro. Both of them have more traction than a slow ( or medium) A group rider will ever need.

I'll also put out that riding on a tire with compromised traction does not mean you crash, it means you learn about how motos work. If you learn slow you might crash, but you probably will anyway.

Lol

 

[com3]

I got 8 days out of a pro slick... At a fast A pace. *shrug*

 

[BENRAT]

I have a rear pro take off with a few days left on it if you would like to just try them out and see for yourself foe free and then you can make an informed choice instead of paying more because you 'think' you need the extra grip.

I'll take you up on that offer Shawnery...

 

[Insomniac]

It is my understanding that the Pro's are considerably more sensitive to tire pressures than normal. I had the front lock as skid on the fourth day (no lean), and later in the day had the rear drift way out unexpectedly. I've never had a set of tires, with bugger all visible wear, respond like that before.

 

[Yody]

It is my understanding that the Pro's are considerably more sensitive to tire pressures than normal. I had the front lock as skid on the fourth day (no lean), and later in the day had the rear drift way out unexpectedly. I've never had a set of tires, with bugger all visible wear, respond like that before.

Well what psi were you running?

 

[DirtyD]

I... At a fast A pace. *shrug*

Now I know you're lying.

 

[com3]

*giggles!*

 

[afm199]

It is my understanding that the Pro's are considerably more sensitive to tire pressures than normal. I had the front lock as skid on the fourth day (no lean), and later in the day had the rear drift way out unexpectedly. I've never had a set of tires, with bugger all visible wear, respond like that before.

Huh? Lock and skid? I've just finished eight or nine days on a set of Pros and I've never had anything untoward at all happen, other than the rear starting to spin up a bit on corner exits, indicating the tire is getting cycled out. The only way I can imagine locking up a front and skidding it is on impaired traction or cold tires. I think I have done it twice in my life. Once in impaired traction, once in desperation braking on a big fat pig of a bike.

 

[norcalpirelli]

The Pro Slick is a great track day and endurance race tire.

The tire came to market late last summer and we quickly found that the rear tire psi should be set at apox 23-cold and around 26-27 hot for best results with traction.

I can also share that two very popular track day company's run the PRO on there sponsor YAHMAHA bikes with great results. Both www.zoomzoomtrackdays.com and www.trackdaz.com run the PRO day in and day out with zero problems.

I think trying to compare a track day tire to a full on race compound is silly. If we want to talk full on race slicks then maybe you should look into a set of our new 200/60/17 Diablo Super Bike Slick. Now that's a freaking bad ass tire just ask Martin Szwarc he took a 3rd in FP on it at the last AFM race.

Msrp on a set of Diablo Super Bike Pro is $370.00 a set

 

[transport]

What do you think about missmatching these tires? Everyone loves the rears but should you get a softer front? Or is that just being paranoid

 

[afm199]

What do you think about missmatching these tires? Everyone loves the rears but should you get a softer front? Or is that just being paranoid

How fast you planning on going? Unless you're hitting a race pace, the chances of your having a problem with the front is remote. I suspect that out of a given 100 trackday riders, 80 of them won't come close to pushing the front or rear to its limit. Are you in that last 20% ( meaning you pass most A groupers)?

 

[transport]

im about a 2:05 at thunderhill so i guess i should be ok?