Dave Chappelle

[DucatiHoney]

Think that's the main problem some have and also why he's a great comedian.

He did a routine once talking about having kids. And he said he totally supported a woman's right to choose. It was her body, which of course I loved. As I was thinking I might like the guy, he then closed by saying that as a man, he has a right to ditch her and not support the kid if he doesn't want to. It's not right--it's also not wrong. If I'm being totally honest with myself.

 

[Blankpage]

Everyone can find stuff they find offensive if they’re looking for it. Some folks make it their mission to looks for such stuff.
As mentioned Dave has targets just about everyone over his career.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Thought pretty funny, a few LOL moments.

The trans jokes/messages were a little schizo, but maybe by design. He seemed to be extending an olive branch to some degree, and then would flip and make jokes that could certainly offend.

The last bit about "punching down" was definitely schizo and a little weird ("why so serious" sort of thing).

IMO, he seemed angry, like he legit blames his friends death on the entire trans community and is taking it out on them through this show. Ending with saying that his friend, a trans woman, was not part of the trans community.

Not sure why fame suddenly demands that someone be PC, but I guess that's a problem I'll never have.

(BTW, I find DC to be really offensive 83% of the time. I wouldn't say his observations are always unfair--I often find myself being angry at the fact that he's correct. He's just not my thang. I understand why people like him on some level.)

I don't think there is a responsibility to be PC. I do think that there is a responsibility for people with large fan bases to be aware of how what they say effects their fan bases. Since this show came out, Chappelle's fan base has been pretty vicious against trans people and trans advocates (at least in social media land, so, maybe not real world but reflecting it). Things from saying 'You'll never be a real woman' to sending trans advocates images of dead trans people. That shit is at least partially on him, especially given that the point of his jokes seems to have been 'these loud trans people caused my friend to kill herself, they are bad people.'

 

[bojangle]

IMO, he seemed angry, like he legit blames his friends death on the entire trans community and is taking it out on them through this show. Ending with saying that his friend, a trans woman, was not part of the trans community.


I don't think there is a responsibility to be PC. I do think that there is a responsibility for people with large fan bases to be aware of how what they say effects their fan bases. Since this show came out, Chappelle's fan base has been pretty vicious against trans people and trans advocates (at least in social media land, so, maybe not real world but reflecting it). Things from saying 'You'll never be a real woman' to sending trans advocates images of dead trans people. That shit is at least partially on him, especially given that the point of his jokes seems to have been 'these loud trans people caused my friend to kill herself, they are bad people.'

I don’t know if was them dragging or I don’t know what was going on in her life but I bet dragging her didn’t help.

This sounds like a very reasonable assumption. How is "dragging" really any different from on line bullying that leads a fragile person (often a teen) to commit suicide?

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Checked it out last night because of the thread. Not one of his better shows but dude is always funny so I’m always gonna watch.

I actually think Dave's body of work on Netflix is his best. At least as far as televised. His style is so much different post Chappelle Show, which is probably how most of us came to know him, which makes it quite spectacular to see him still successful at it. Really been enjoyable watching him grow as a comedian.

Thought pretty funny, a few LOL moments.

The trans jokes/messages were a little schizo, but maybe by design. He seemed to be extending an olive branch to some degree, and then would flip and make jokes that could certainly offend.

The last bit about "punching down" was definitely schizo and a little weird ("why so serious" sort of thing).

You think Dave's schizophrenic? I haven't heard that take before.

From his own lips, and the rest of what folks are worked up over.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/comedy/dave-chappelle-the-closer-transcript/

Kinda hard to get an honest take away from that without watching it performed imo. Tone and facial/body language is important imo, especially with comedy.

"‘I’m team Terf’: Dave Chappelle under fire over pro-JK Rowling trans stance"

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/oct/07/dave-chappelle-transgender-netflix-special-backlash

Same as above, if you want to take that literal I suppose you can. I took it as he believes there's a difference between being born a certain gender and bring trans. I wouldn't define that as being trans exclusive. I've never even heard the term terf until watching this special.

Not sure why fame suddenly demands that someone be PC, but I guess that's a problem I'll never have.

(BTW, I find DC to be really offensive 83% of the time. I wouldn't say his observations are always unfair--I often find myself being angry at the fact that he's correct. He's just not my thang. I understand why people like him on some level.)

Yes!

Think that's the main problem some have and also why he's a great comedian.

and yes!

He did a routine once talking about having kids. And he said he totally supported a woman's right to choose. It was her body, which of course I loved. As I was thinking I might like the guy, he then closed by saying that as a man, he has a right to ditch her and not support the kid if he doesn't want to. It's not right--it's also not wrong. If I'm being totally honest with myself.

I remember that bit . His comedy has definitely gotten more edgy. Probably think twice about laughing at some of that stuff in public, but I think that's sort of his point.

IMO, he seemed angry, like he legit blames his friends death on the entire trans community and is taking it out on them through this show. Ending with saying that his friend, a trans woman, was not part of the trans community.

He definitely seems stressed, I could say that about his last few specials I think. Maybe angry, don't know him well enough to pin point that.

My take away from that was that his friend was also part of his group. He mentioned "going against your tribe", when she defended Dave on Twitter so I think he acknowledged her being part of the trans community. That wasn't all she was though Is what I think he was trying to get across.

 

[ScarySpikes]

This sounds like a very reasonable assumption. How is "dragging" really any different from on line bullying that leads a fragile person (often a teen) to commit suicide?

Whether it's a reasonable assumption or not doesn't really matter, and we don't have an unbiased viewpoint to know anyway. Airing that grievance on a Netflix special that will be seen by millions probably isn't a good idea, and will pretty obviously lead to a lot more online 'dragging' and hate.

 

[jdhu]

You think Dave's schizophrenic? I haven't heard that take before.

Not him, but the trans line of jokes in this show, seemed a bit schizo to me.

 

[TylerW]

Since this show came out, Chappelle's fan base has been pretty vicious against trans people and trans advocates (at least in social media land, so, maybe not real world but reflecting it). Things from saying 'You'll never be a real woman' to sending trans advocates images of dead trans people.

Jesus, WTF is wrong with people?

 

[chickenfried]

Your body, your choice. My wallet, my choice.

He did a routine once talking about having kids. And he said he totally supported a woman's right to choose. It was her body, which of course I loved. As I was thinking I might like the guy, he then closed by saying that as a man, he has a right to ditch her and not support the kid if he doesn't want to. It's not right--it's also not wrong. If I'm being totally honest with myself.

 

[TylerW]

Same as above, if you want to take that literal I suppose you can. I took it as he believes there's a difference between being born a certain gender and bring trans. I wouldn't define that as being trans exclusive. I've never even heard the term terf until watching this special.

If a person claims they're "Team TERF" I don't really have any reason to second guess them on it. especially when they have a history of making jokes at the expense of the LGBTQ+ community.

Personally I don't like the term TERF. I don't think there's anything radically feminist about rejecting trans identities. Seems pretty milquetoast to me.

 

[Blankpage]

No one ever gets on Dave’s case for making fun of straight people

 

[TylerW]

No one ever gets on Dave’s case for making fun of straight people

Do you know the difference between punching down and punching up?

 

[chickenfried]

Just something people made up.
It's either funny or it isn't. He's a millionaire that can do pretty much whatever he wants.
Who's he going to "punch up" at?

Do you know the difference between punching down and punching up?

 

[cheez]

If a person claims they're "Team TERF" I don't really have any reason to second guess them on it. especially when they have a history of making jokes at the expense of the LGBTQ+ community.

Personally I don't like the term TERF. I don't think there's anything radically feminist about rejecting trans identities. Seems pretty milquetoast to me.

This, but also this.

“Punching down on someone, requires you to think less of them and I know him, and he doesn’t. He doesn’t punch up, he doesn’t punch down he punches lines, and he is a master at his craft.”

Dave wasn't punching down, but it was perceived as such because the group is already so marginalized; when called out over it he didn't walk it back, he doubled down and adopted some of the 'most offensive possible' language to characterize his position. "Team TERF"? Sorry Dave, you lost me. You might not've been punching down, but right now, like JK Rowling, you're throwing punches on a topic you're woefully ignorant, against a minority who are so actively and severely marginalized by our society that it can't be tolerated.

I've liked Dave for a long time. "I'm Team TERF" turned him into Dennis Miller.

 

[Blankpage]

Do you know the difference between punching down and punching up?

I don’t expect comedy to defend or solve societies issues, wouldn’t be funny if that was the intent.
The serious comic isn’t getting a Netflix special or repeat gigs at the comedy club.
Like the rest of us these dudes have to make a living doing and saying shit that maybe they don’t always agree with.

 

[ScarySpikes]

I don’t expect comedy to defend or solve societies issues, wouldn’t be funny if that was the intent.
The serious comic isn’t getting a Netflix special or repeat gigs at the comedy club.
Like the rest of us these dudes have to make a living doing and saying shit that maybe they don’t always agree with.

I don't think anyone expects a comic to solve societies issues, except maybe John Stewart.

I do think it's OK to expect comics to not push their fans towards becoming TERFs/transphobes.

 

[TylerW]

I don’t expect comedy to defend or solve societies issues, wouldn’t be funny if that was the intent.
The serious comic isn’t getting a Netflix special or repeat gigs at the comedy club.
Like the rest of us these dudes have to make a living doing and saying shit that maybe they don’t always agree with.

Maybe you've never heard of Hannah Gadsby? Not saying her comedy is gonna change the world or anything, but it touches on some pretty serious topics. She has two Nexflix specials already and pre-covid her shows would sell out within hours.

[YOUTUBE]UTUduCmGHLA[/YOUTUBE]

Comedy won't change the world, no. But humor has had a fantastic role in human culture of making uncomfortable discussions more comfortable to have.

 

[Eldritch]

Jesus, WTF is wrong with people?

They are people. At our age how is this even surprising to you?

Do you know the difference between punching down and punching up?

He actually spends like 10 minutes talking specifically about this. He seems to be taking the position that Black people are punching up at everybody.

 

[bojangle]

Do you know the difference between punching down and punching up?

He's just punching lines, man!

Much in the comedy world isn't PC. Just the way it should be.

Dave Chappell isn't my favorite comic. But I also don't think he's punching down at anyone.

 

[TylerW]

They are people. At our age how is this even surprising to you?

I guess at my age I still let myself be surprised at how awful they can be.

He actually spends like 10 minutes talking specifically about this. He seems to be taking the position that Black people are punching up at everybody.

I'm not sure if the below quoted is part of that segment,

“Call me a girl, n*gger.” It’s annoying as fuck. No, no, go back, go back tonight after the show, watch every special I did on Netflix. Listen to everything I’ve ever said about that community. I’ll go through ’em. I said, “How much do I have to participate in your self image?” I said, “You shouldn’t discuss this in front of Black people.” I said, “I know n*ggas in Brooklyn that wear high heels just to feel safe.” I asked you “Why is it easier for Bruce Jenner to change his gender than it is for Cassius Clay to change his name?”

but it seems to me that he thinks that everyone is on their own fight - and while that's fundamentally true he seems to think that a black trans woman should decide if she's black, or if she's trans before she asks him for help in that fight.

And while intersectionality isn't for everyone, it certainly doesn't seem to be for him. And if he wants to believe that as a straight cis black man he's at the bottom of the social pecking order he's gonna be pissing a lot of people off.