Difference between bicyclists and motorcyclists when it comes to safety

[Map8]

Yeah. Not just SF, but everywhere always. The standard M.O. is for bicyclists to blow thru stop signal without slowing. Everywhere, all of them, 98% of the time.

60% of the time it works all the time. I think you need reconsider your statistics there bojangle.

Even if the truck signals, that doesn't mean it's safe to make the turn. A turn signal doesn't absolve the driver of all responsibility. The bike in the bike lane is part of traffic and has a green light. The truck cannot proceed with the turn unless it is safe to do so; which means the truck's path is clear of other automobiles, bicycles and pedestrians.

 

[byke]

They should put those hydraulic posts in crosswalks so cars can't run red lights.

 

[rcb78]

As a cyclist that likely has an equal number of miles on both moto and bicycle, the driver was a dick for passing the cyclist to make the turn AND the cyclist wasn't paying attention because they should have seen that coming and already adjusted for it. I say equal blame goes to both.
As for saying the driver cut the turn, i see dashed white lines. Not sure about NYC but my understanding here is that the broken line means cars WILL be coming through the bike lane. The person that mentioned that drivers aren't aware of how fast bikes move nailed it. We're frequently doing 20-25 mph on long flat stretches. More if the road is pointing downhill and/or we're catching the draft of the cars.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

. The San Francisco bicycle standard of just blowing through stop signs without even getting off the pedals is intolerable.

That’s like a complete BS ; you don’t need to come off the pedals for a complete stop on a bicycle. Well for a half a second but still ever heard of a slow race on Barf events?

Didn’t expect Eldritch to be a STOP sign Nazi but hey (it’s not like another Optical barfer hasn’t been stalking bicyclists on a City corner and videoing them)

 

[bojangle]

60% of the time it works all the time. I think you need reconsider your statistics there bojangle.

Even if the truck signals, that doesn't mean it's safe to make the turn. A turn signal doesn't absolve the driver of all responsibility. The bike in the bike lane is part of traffic and has a green light. The truck cannot proceed with the turn unless it is safe to do so; which means the truck's path is clear of other automobiles, bicycles and pedestrians.

My stats? Just personal observation. I'm tempted to say bicycles blow thru stop signs and red lights 100% of the time, even right in front of a marked police car. But, on rare, very rare occasion, I've seen them stop.

As far as the truck, of course they have a responsibility to yield before turning. And the truck in the video did pass the bicyclists, so should have known it was there. At the same time, trucks have bad blind spots. If you can't see the driver through the side mirror, they can't see you. My comments were an observation that the truck driver was signalling, as others claim he was not, and the basic awareness of the cyclists that should be happening, just like when we ride motors. You can can have the legal right of way, but still be dead. Best to anticipate drivers doing dumb but predictable shit to stay alive.

To Scary's points, yeah, good bicycle infrastructure can help prevent a lot of this stuff, though it doesn't absolve bicyclists from obeying the rules of the road. It also requires huge expenses that are not offset at all by the users. That doesn't mean they are not worthy endeavors. We should just acknowledge that bicycles pay no gas taxes which go towards road maintenance, nor do they pay vehicle registration fees, so there is no add on for road maintenance like there is for EVs, at least in CA.

 

[GAJ]

My stats? Just personal observation. I'm tempted to say bicycles blow thru stop signs and red lights 100% of the time, even right in front of a marked police car. But, on rare, very rare occasion, I've seen them stop.

That is bananas in SF.

I do go through stop signs on my bicycle here in suburban Santa Rosa after listening and looing to see there are no cars but never ever a red light.

Blowing through red lights in SF seems suicidal unless the side roads are clogged with pedestrians crossing.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

That is bananas in SF.

I do go through stop signs on my bicycle here in suburban Santa Rosa after listening and looing to see there are no cars but never ever a red light.

Blowing through red lights in SF seems suicidal unless the side roads are clogged with pedestrians crossing.

What are you all soapboxing about? Neither of you is in SF and is not currently seeing any bicycles go through a red light, and , the OP video is from NYC..

I personally don’t see bicyclists blow through a red light much in SF. , at least on four way intersections.
You should see the car-crashes on red or forbidden right on red, though

 

[GAJ]

What are you all soapboxing about? Neither of you is in SF and is not currently seeing any bicycles go through a red light, and , the OP video is from NYC..

I personally don’t see bicyclists blow through a red light much in SF. , at least on four way intersections.
You should see the car-crashes on red or forbidden right on red, though

Where does Bojangles patrol where all this red light running by bicycles, (which I don't see here either) is happening?

 

[Map8]

Best to anticipate drivers doing dumb but predictable shit to stay alive.

Agree. No excuse for not practicing good defensive riding.

To Scary's points, yeah, good bicycle infrastructure can help prevent a lot of this stuff, though it doesn't absolve bicyclists from obeying the rules of the road. It also requires huge expenses that are not offset at all by the users. That doesn't mean they are not worthy endeavors. We should just acknowledge that bicycles pay no gas taxes which go towards road maintenance, nor do they pay vehicle registration fees, so there is no add on for road maintenance like there is for EVs, at least in CA.

This argument is flawed. I own two cars and three motorcycles. I would hazard a guess that most bicyclists (or households with bicyclists) in California own motor vehicles. Me and those other bicyclists who own motor vehicles pay taxes towards ALL transportation infrastructure which includes bicycle and pedestrian routes along with public transportation. Should we place additional taxes on shoes for pedestrians to fund sidewalks?

 

[bojangle]

Should we place additional taxes on shoes for pedestrians to fund sidewalks?

Maybe...

 

[bojangle]

What are you all soapboxing about? Neither of you is in SF and is not currently seeing any bicycles go through a red light, and , the OP video is from NYC..

I personally don’t see bicyclists blow through a red light much in SF. , at least on four way intersections.
You should see the car-crashes on red or forbidden right on red, though

OK. Just noting that I never mentioned anything about SF, other than in response to Eldritch who said it was intolerable there, and I replied that it's everywhere.

When I have gone to SF (Yeah, I've been there. My brother has lived there for a good couple decades.) traffic in general is pretty sketchy. I know if I were on a bicycle, I'd be more cautious than other places. I have ridden a motorcycle in SF.

Where does Bojangles patrol where all this red light running by bicycles, (which I don't see here either) is happening?

I work in a city smaller than SF.

 

[GAJ]

I work in a city smaller than SF.

As do I.

Just don't see it here.

Lots of red light running but generally cars.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

As do I.

Just don't see it here.

Lots of red light running but generally cars.

yeah in S.R. yo gonna get shot n run over if a bicycle runs the red light.

you just assumed bo was wurking in SF, so I was correcting that, b/c esp from you there are quite a lot of assumptions about SF.

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just another quickie from me but I assume people won't understand it:

I think riding a bicycle is more dangerous outside of SF than in SF.. people are less used to and accepting of bicycles

 

[mercurial]

The difference between bicyclists and motorcyclists when it comes to safety, motorcyclists are generally far more skilled. For a motorcyclist, this truck's maneuver doesn't even register on the risk scale, because of course they are going to do this.. the truck is signaling, it's a busy environment, and you're in their blind spot. A motorcyclist can't get away with not seeing these kinds of things before they happen, because they will be dead in a matter of weeks if they don't pick it up.

Bicyclists meanwhile are mostly just clueless cagers who happen to be on 2 wheels. They barely seem to understand the nature of the risk.

 

[Ant]

The difference between bicyclists and motorcyclists when it comes to safety, motorcyclists are generally far more skilled. For a motorcyclist, this truck's maneuver doesn't even register on the risk scale, because of course they are going to do this.. the truck is signaling, it's a busy environment, and you're in their blind spot. A motorcyclist can't get away with not seeing these kinds of things before they happen, because they will be dead in a matter of weeks if they don't pick it up.

Bicyclists meanwhile are mostly just clueless cagers who happen to be on 2 wheels. They barely seem to understand the nature of the risk.

Very well stated

Tangling with a 4,000 pound plus hunk of moving metal and you will lose every time guaranteed.

 

[BURNROPE]

I'm in the Netherlands for a two week bicycle trip. Bicycles definitely rule the roost here. Amsterdam seemed like a madhouse but it all seems to work out. There are 23,000 miles of dedicated bike paths here. Most people own two bikes so most drivers are also bikers and everybody seems to get along, especially out in the country where most of our rides are occurring. It's flat here, but you still get a good workout because it's so windy.
In the States, I slow down for stop signs and will always come to a full stop to avoid taking someone's right of way. I ride with a couple of bicycle clubs in Sonoma. We ride in groups of 4-6 riders with a big enough gap between the groups for cars to pass on tight roads. We're always watching our six and call out "Car back" when a car is approaching. We try to be ambassadors for the sport, but there are a lot of idiots out there, I almost took out some bicyclists riding in three rows three abreast coming over a rise on Chileno Valley Road a couple of months ago while riding my Guzzi. A lot of the people I ride bicycles with hate bicyclists too.

 

[GAJ]

yeah in S.R. yo gonna get shot n run over if a bicycle runs the red light.

you just assumed bo was wurking in SF, so I was correcting that, b/c esp from you there are quite a lot of assumptions about SF.

---

just another quickie from me but I assume people won't understand it:

I think riding a bicycle is more dangerous outside of SF than in SF.. people are less used to and accepting of bicycles

Not sure about that but there are definitely great places to ride bicycles in SF but some "not so great" places.

Most dangerous area for bicyclists in SF according to this study are not surprising; Union Square, Hayes Valley-Market Street, Tenderloin - Polk Street are the top three.

Those are areas near some of the concert venues I go to and indeed look hairy for bicyclists such as myself.

 

[chickenfried]

The number of motorcyclists I see doing dumb shit in person and online is larger than bicyclists. When was the last time a bicycle accident snarled your commute? I never understood this thing some motorcycle have with bicyclists. It's like car drivers raging when they see a lane splitter. Before you say splitting is legal, do you observe all the traffic laws riding? :cough: speed limit. I bet you feel pretty safe cruising at 80mph on 280. Technically illegal but... You'd think they'd empathize with an even more vulnerable user of the roads.

Here are some fatality stats for SF. Think how many more cyclists than motorcyclists...
https://sfgov.org/scorecards/transp...=They include:,a motorcycle, 1 person driving

The difference between bicyclists and motorcyclists when it comes to safety,
is s motorcyclists are generally far more skilled. For a motorcyclist, this truck's maneuver doesn't even register on the risk scale, because of course they are going to do this.. the truck is signaling, it's a busy environment, and you're in their blind spot. A motorcyclist can't get away with not seeing these kinds of things before they happen, because they will be dead in a matter of weeks if they don't pick it up.

Bicyclists meanwhile are mostly just clueless cagers who happen to be on 2 wheels. They barely seem to understand the nature of the risk.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

When every single bicycle that doesn't stop at every single Stop Sign or Red Light is crushed to death by a speeding truck, then I will be interested in that approach.

The problem right now is, on the off chance that a cyclist IS given a citation for failing to stop, it is minor, unlikely to occur again, and there is little to deter them from continuing the behavior.

If cyclists want to use the same public roads that people in grown up vehicles want to use, they should be held to the same measures of accountability.

- I stop at stop signs and lights
- I've gotten a ticket when I didn't. I deserved it and paid it

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Hey how many cars have purposely run down cyclists and how many cyclists have run down cars? For discussion sake.