Difference of V-twin vs. IL4 Power Delivery

[scratchpad]

Okay so I know that comparing the two is like apples and oranges however my agenda here is to find out since i started on a semi larger twin (superhawk) if i've stunted my riding ability in any way.

I've heard and read that starting on a 600 or less of a bike one can learn throttle control and concentrate more on learning the fundamentals of riding compared to buying a liter bike and going that route. Now does that also relate to twins if one was to go from a twin to an IL4 vice versa since the delivery of power is so different?

I've ridden a gsxr1000 once and not long enough to get any kind of feel for it so IL4's are foreign to me. Twins have the roll on lower to midrange power as to IL4's have the snappy and top end. (not sure if i said that right)

So basically should i have started on a smaller bike and worked my way up the ladder? Would it be recommended to get a smaller bike or is it too late?

I'm not sure if what i was trying to say came out right there in words and hope it isnt confusing to anybody.

 

[V4]

just to confuse you even more, a V4 motor is like the best of both worlds but isn't the same as either one at the same time....

 

[F33rNoFish]

I started on an inline 4 and found that I got very used to it within the first few months. I mean I had ridden all other types of bikes before, but when I actually started to want to learn the "fundamental" it was very easy on an inline.

Now I'm on a twin and all I can say is wow, what a difference. Power is different, response in general is different. I think that it just depends on what kind of riding you do. You'll get used to whatever you're riding on.

My .02

 

[tiltedworld]

Excluding the Buell Blast I started riding on, the bike I really learned canyon skills was the SV, the little twin was the best for learning entry speed and throttle control. Roll-on, roll-off, just like the freakin karate kid. There were rides I never even touched the brakes in the twisties. Roll-on or off too fast and the bike would really lurch, due to the added torque of the twin.

Now I'm on a i4 and yeah the power isn't there down low, but the power delivery is very smooth and there's now where near as much engine braking. I've now had to learn to use my brakes before the corners, which is a good thing. For me it was a natural step.

 

[Garcia_916]

I started on the inline fours and moved up to the V-Twin..Only

thing I miss would be the low end power that u get from the

inline machines. I find them to come up a whole lot easier then

the Duc's. I'm more into handling and I personally enjoy the Duc

through the twisties. GOT DESMO BYTCH!

 

[Eisernkreuz]

Why would it be too late to go back? It's not like you passed some point of no return of riding abilities...modern 600s are very capable bikes, and riders refine their skills throughout their lives. I don't see why you can't go any route you choose.

 

[V4]

my reason for getting a V4 motor is different....

the big inline bikes are too much bike for me.....so are the 600s but I don't like tap dancing on the shifters just to keep the rev up and when Im there, its too much power for me....

the vtwins are fun with power down low and i enjoy the throttle control and the sound but i hate the mileage of the japanese and the maintenance on the italian....

so the VFR is my choice which I occasionally make vrooom vrooom sounds of both inline and Vtwin when I ride.....

 

[donoman]

V-4 motors rule...

I think an inline is easier to get carried away with (R1, 929rr)... a twin has a very constant torque curve, so you know what's coming if you fuck up.

V-4 motors rule...

 

[donoman]

And I doubt you are stunting your growth being on that superhawk. It's not the typical 1000cc bike. Last I remembered it makes as much HP as a CBR600.

 

[root]

I have been riding a vfr800 for the last 3 years and now I have 200 miles on a 01 cbr 600. Peak power is about the same, but I expected the light weight of the 600 would help the bottom end. it doesn't. the VFR is very torqie, lots of engine braking and thus teaches you a lot about throttle control and smooth shifting. Power is consistent weather your at 6 or 12k.
The first thing I noticed with the cbr is the power curve. Sure I'm still breaking the engine in, but if you hit it at 5k it doesn't start pulling hard until 7k and then it starts to come alive. It "wants" to rev, more faster it turns, the more torq you get. So I have to be aware of my rpm's before I pass a slow car. The jury is still out for me on which one I like best, but the CBR is so light...
The idea behind getting a "slower" bike to learn on has to do with conserving your speed. So for example, if you screw up your entry and you exit slow out of the corner, on a big bike you can just punch it and make up for *some* of your mistake, but if the same corner requires full throttle exit on the smaller bike, you have to carry as much speed through the corner as possible to carry it out. The slow bike will help you become more smooth, you will be driving the at the limit of the bike, not the limit of the tires.

 

[scratchpad]

And I doubt you are stunting your growth being on that superhawk. It's not the typical 1000cc bike. Last I remembered it makes as much HP as a CBR600.

Yeah! I know the superhawk is just a typical cruiser. It actually has less horsepower than a cbr600.

 

[scratchpad]

The idea behind getting a "slower" bike to learn on has to do with conserving your speed. So for example, if you screw up your entry and you exit slow out of the corner, on a big bike you can just punch it and make up for *some* of your mistake, but if the same corner requires full throttle exit on the smaller bike, you have to carry as much speed through the corner as possible to carry it out. The slow bike will help you become more smooth, you will be driving the at the limit of the bike, not the limit of the tires.

Thanks all for the input. This is the concept i was originally referring to but these are not my words.

 

[donoman]

I think the SuperHawk will stunt your growth at the track due to lack of adjustable suspension, and its heavy weight ... but on the street, it's probably a great bike. I've never ridden a Superhawk but i believe it has similar characteristics to a VFR or RC51 ... somewhere in between and I own those bikes. I just need a CBR to complete the collection. Yeah right.

 

[Leonard]

The old saying my friends told me was that "it takes a slow bike to make you fast." When you don't have gobs of power to get you down the straights you learn to keep the momentum up. The only way to do this is to be smooth and maintain as much cornering speed as you can. You learn to feel the bike and keep it steady and work the tires. This is easiest to do on a smaller bike because they don't have as much weight working against you and you get a better feel for what is going on. You also really learn to use the engine instead of relying on it. I have a whole lot of fun riding my little single down tight twisty roads. I have an RC51 that I enjoy riding but it is a handful pushing that much weight in to a corner and the power adds a whole dimension that has to be managed carefully. A lot of new riders on a powerful bike will get going fast down the straight and over brake because it is hard to judge corner approach speed so the end result is lots of point and shoot and an over all slow speed. The only way to find out if you have been held back is to ride a smaller bike that is well set up and see how you feel on it.

P.S. Singles and Twins are more tractable as they make good torquey power low down while I4s need to spinup and they make more peak power so they can be harder to learn to manage. However I think it would be easier to learn on a small I4 than on a large twin because of the weight, but most easy on a small twin.

 

[BLKG1K]

Now I'm on a i4 and yeah the power isn't there down low, but the power delivery is very smooth and there's now where near as much engine braking. I've now had to learn to use my brakes before the corners, which is a good thing. For me it was a natural step. [/B][/QUOTE]

I thought that an inline 4 has more engine braking than a twin of the same size? I will dig through my old bike magazines and back this up if I can find it. If I am wrong then I will wear a Honda hat every day for a week!

 

[scratchpad]

I think the SuperHawk will stunt your growth at the track due to lack of adjustable suspension, and its heavy weight ... but on the street, it's probably a great bike. I've never ridden a Superhawk but i believe it has similar characteristics to a VFR or RC51 ... somewhere in between and I own those bikes. I just need a CBR to complete the collection. Yeah right.

Actually i've upgraded the suspension both front and rear so it's fully adjustable now, only if i understood how it works and was able to make the adjustments.

 

[scratchpad]

I have an RC51 that I enjoy riding but it is a handful pushing that much weight in to a corner and the power adds a whole dimension that has to be managed carefully. A lot of new riders on a powerful bike will get going fast down the straight and over brake because it is hard to judge corner approach speed so the end result is lots of point and shoot and an over all slow speed. The only way to find out if you have been held back is to ride a smaller bike that is well set up and see how you feel on it.

P.S. Singles and Twins are more tractable as they make good torquey power low down while I4s need to spinup and they make more peak power so they can be harder to learn to manage. However I think it would be easier to learn on a small I4 than on a large twin because of the weight, but most easy on a small twin.

Maybe i'm used to the weight of a twin, i havnt had any problems throwing it into a turn other than just plain cornering wrong. Forget what the wet weight of the superhawk is but near 500lbs. I have the fork tubes raised 5mm and the rear raised around 17mm or so maybe thats why. Going from such a heavy bike to a much lighter bike would be a world of difference too.

 

[BLKG1K]

Originally posted by tiltedworld

Now I'm on a i4 and yeah the power isn't there down low, but the power delivery is very smooth and there's now where near as much engine braking. I've now had to learn to use my brakes before the corners, which is a good thing. For me it was a natural step.

Originally posted by BLKG1K [/i
I thought that an inline 4 has more engine braking than a twin of the same size? I will dig through my old bike magazines and back this up if I can find it. If I am wrong then I will wear a Honda hat every day for a week! [/B]

Whew, looks like i dont have to wear a Honda hat for a week! Cycle World, August 2003 page 48 "Engine Braking" by Steve Anderson.

Great article about engine braking between inline fours and twins.

 

[scratchpad]

Can you post it?

 

[BLKG1K]

If I had a scanner I would post it, sorry. I tried to go to www.cycleworld.com to see if i could find the article on their web page but their web page keeps making my computer freeze up.