Donate or scrap?

[auntiebling]

Sounds like I may be able to get a vehicle converted to "title only" meaning it cannot be registered for street use. If the new owner decides to convert the title back, it would be on them. I hope to call Sac next week for some clarity on this. (only caveat I see is the "at the time the title was issued") (Maybe I can give it to my wife and retitle it in her name as "title only")

Post #12

 

[Yakoo752]

Post #12

 

[mercurial]

It does, the title and plate must be surrenderd to the dmv. It's in the law. Are you a lawyer? Can you get in writing where a civil contact in violation of law has been upheld? From what my lawyer family member has told me, this is not the case.

The legal way to sell a car as junk or parts is to have it labeled as such. You can't then illegally circumvent the law by writing your own "law" on a piece of paper. I'm not sure how you don't understand that. I think you're operating under the Websters definition of contact. The legal definition is vastly more complex. For instance, if I rush you to sign a 500 page contract, without providing you sufficient time to examine the document, that signature is invalid. Same if it is written in terminology the common person wouldn't be expected to understand. You must allow it to be examined by an expert in the field so it can be explained to the person. Otherwise invalid. Just because you write something on a piece of paper doesn't mean it's legit.

IANAL but I've been through major contract litigation pro per. I know enough attorneys to know that areas beyond their specific expertise require them to spend good time reading the actual code, otherwise their opinion is advisory but somewhat anecdotal. You are suggesting that my contract is contrary to law. If it was contrary to statute, you would be correct; a contract clause that contradicts statute is nullified. My proposed contract works around the statute by requiring different types of performance if the statute nullifies your regular sale. I will share with you hypothetical language momentarily, because I think this is useful for people here and I think its very doable.

 

[mercurial]

*advice not relevant because OP wants to "keep it on track"*

 

[kingmoochr]

Lol, I think we all have a much more in depth understanding of this particular section of the cvc. I don't see that contract as being able to circumvent the "seller must smog" requirement of sale. It's a contract that says if we can't smog it, the buyer agrees to junk it and be reimbursed a predetermined amount of money. I can see how this would put in writing a potential sales agreement, but I think it's way beyond the understanding of how the general public understands the general selling and buying of cars. I imagine a "deer in headlights" stare from your typical craigslister....perhaps another car enthusiast would have an easier time comprehending.

So happy I never thought law school would be a good idea...

 

[mercurial]

That's an interesting point, maybe we had a semantic misunderstanding. I was treating the word "circumvent" in a practical sense: an agreement that allows you to dump a piece of shit car but keeps the buyer from being able to screw you.

You're right, this is not a casual sales contract. But you know, people will put up with crappy contractual terms if the price is right.

 

[kingmoochr]

Yeah, I guess my side was, if you're selling a car intended to be road driven/requiring smog, it's on the seller and there's no way around that where you still possess a registerable vehicle. For me, a piece of shit car should still be classified as primarily being intended for road use, and not literal scrap. Unfortunately in ca we don't have vehicle inspections, so there are seriously shit cars still on the road...

The law certainly doesn't do a good job of protecting people from themselves.

 

[MrIncredible]

Yeah, I guess my side was, if you're selling a car intended to be road driven/requiring smog, it's on the seller and there's no way around that where you still possess a registerable vehicle. For me, a piece of shit car should still be classified as primarily being intended for road use, and not literal scrap. Unfortunately in ca we don't have vehicle inspections, so there are seriously shit cars still on the road...

The law certainly doesn't do a good job of protecting people from themselves.

I live in a state with annual vehicle inspections. There are some seriously shit cars on the road.

It may work better elsewhere, but it doesn't do much here.

 

[psychocandy]

Much as I love this discussion by a bunch of admitted non-lawyers about contract law & seller responsibility [sarcasm], lemme try to bring this back on track.

But, do call "KQED" say "car donate" and they will simply take your car.

after 4 weeks you will get a notice.. your car sold for... $300 -- so you dont' even get much of a notice.

But, if, it sells for > $500 you get a letter, it's recorded as a writeoff to the IRS and so on. (so that you don't misrepresent the > $500)

One of the benefits of this is that you deal with absolutely nothing. They come with a tow truck.

This was our original plan & is still our plan B. If we did this, we'd expect to get nothing for it. Even as a tax write-off.

If you take your car to smog it now, it will fail. I can't recall or not if I actually got the smog, but I had a broken exhaust so it failed visual. As long as everything else meets criteria, I'd smog it for a grand cash.

I've never smogged a car before it needed a smog inspection. Can I take it to a smog tester, just tell them I'm smogging it because I plan on selling it, then it will fail automatically due to CEL? Then, with no smog certificate, & meeting the rest of the Cash For Clunkers criteria, possibly get $1k? If so, spending $50 for the smog attempt & another $50 to tow it to a pick-n-pull (or drive it?), is worth the trouble.

Fwiw, the 2.2 is very popular for vanagon engine swaps. The only CA smog legal swap is based on it. It's also considered more reliable than the 2.5.

One of my best friends is VW Van-head. I would looooove to help someone out this way. But given the hoops it appears I have to jump through to sell a car for parts, I really don't think this is an option.

 

[Yakoo752]

(Yakoo review this code, it clearly what allows you to sell your parts vehicle and not get it smogged.)

thanks, it was my general thoughts - the car would be sold to an enthusiast but I think I would still have to be selective as to whom.

Can I take it to a smog tester, just tell them I'm smogging it because I plan on selling it, then it will fail automatically due to CEL? Then, with no smog certificate, & meeting the rest of the Cash For Clunkers criteria, possibly get $1k? If so, spending $50 for the smog attempt & another $50 to tow it to a pick-n-pull (or drive it?), is worth the trouble.

Yep - is the additional money worth the effort to you?

 

[aminalmutha]

I live in a state with annual vehicle inspections. There are some seriously shit cars on the road.

It may work better elsewhere, but it doesn't do much here.

There are plenty of old rusty French pieces of shit running around UK roads, but somehow they are supposed to pass MOT.

 

[Charles R]

One of my best friends is VW Van-head. I would looooove to help someone out this way. But given the hoops it appears I have to jump through to sell a car for parts, I really don't think this is an option.

There really are no hoops to jump through, as long as the seller and buyer are not out to try and screw each other. If you have VW friends, let them know what you've got.

The only thing you would have to be worried about is a buyer who takes the car to a shop, gets it fixed to pass smog, and gives you that bill. That's it. And that's all you could be responsible for. The rest of the car could be a total pile, but you're never on the hook for any of that. The only ones who get in further trouble for the rest of the car, are ones who misrepresented it in the first place.

Yakoo, a buddy of mine took a 4x4 Toyota pickup and re-registered it with the DMV as "off road only". He took the plates in and told them his plan for a non street legal crawler, and he got the same green tag type registration that dirt bikes get. i didn't fully read everything in the thread, so I'm not sure if that may help with your plans.

 

[kingmoochr]

I've never smogged a car before it needed a smog inspection. Can I take it to a smog tester, just tell them I'm smogging it because I plan on selling it, then it will fail automatically due to CEL? Then, with no smog certificate, & meeting the rest of the Cash For Clunkers criteria, possibly get $1k? If so, spending $50 for the smog attempt & another $50 to tow it to a pick-n-pull (or drive it?), is worth the trouble.

Yep, although for the max payout, I'm pretty sure you have to drive it there

One of my best friends is VW Van-head. I would looooove to help someone out this way. But given the hoops it appears I have to jump through to sell a car for parts, I really don't think this is an option.

Like was said, the majority of the discussion was the possible legal implications of misrepresenting the car or being ignorant of the law. If you want to sell it to a buddy, just get a junk title for it and you're golden. It's just a form you fill out (maybe reg256?).

 

[Charles R]

Don't do a junk title. That limits what a new owner can do with it.

Realize that most people who would actually buy a pile of a car in the first place expect to pay out of their own pocket to fix it up a bit. And yes, that includes the cost of smog repairs. It's only the clueless twits that jack it up. (And yes i recognize there's more and more of these every year!)

Technically, the law says i could have a dealer fix the evap code, and send you the bill. Realistically however, I'm going to slap the parts on myself and call it a day. If push came to shove, many like me have "buddy buddy"connections for smog in the first place.

I also don't recall ever needing to get a current smog document if you're going to turn it over to pick and pull. They do all that paperwork themselves.

 

[Yakoo752]

I also don't recall ever needing to get a current smog document if you're going to turn it over to pick and pull. They do all that paperwork themselves.

OP - here you go

http://www.baaqmd.gov/grant-funding/residents/vehicle-buyback-program

just take it to a dismantler and pocket your $1k - make sure you abide by the rules and it looks like the vavr is pretty easy

call and schedule your appointment
Oakland:
Environmental Engineering
1-855-343-7314

Pick-N-Pull
1-800-727-2708

Requirements:
The vehicle must be a 1994 model year or older diesel or gasoline-powered passenger car or light-duty truck up to 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight or less.
2.The vehicle must be currently registered with the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) as an operable vehicle and must have been so registered for at least 24 consecutive months prior to the date of the sale to CONTRACTOR to an address, or addresses, within the DISTRICT. The Air District includes all of Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, and Santa Clara counties, and the southern portions of Solano and Sonoma counties. Smog Checks must be performed as required by DMV in order for the vehicle to be considered registered.

The vehicle may also be eligible if the owner of the vehicle placed the vehicle in planned non-operational status per Vehicle Code sections 4604 et seq., for up to two months during the 24 month registration period and occurring at least three months immediately prior to its sale to the VBB Program.

The vehicle may also be eligible if the registration has lapsed for less than 181 days during the previous 24 months and all appropriate registration fees and late penalties have been paid to DMV, provided that the vehicle is registered for at least ninety (90) days immediately prior to its sale date to the VBB Program.

You can obtain a copy of your registration history on-line. This registration history is only valid if it contains your name and address.
3.The vehicle must be driven to the vehicle dismantler site under its own power.
4.Vehicles whose emission control systems have been tampered with as defined in Cal Code Regs., tit. 16, § 3340.41.5. are not eligible until such tampering has been completely corrected.
5.The vehicle cannot be operating under a Smog Check repair cost waiver or economic hardship extension.
6.If the vehicle is within 60 days of its next required Smog Check inspection, the vehicle shall pass the inspection without receiving a repair cost waiver or economic hardship extension prior to acceptance by the dismantler.
7.If a vehicle is within sixty-one to ninety (61-90) days of its next required Smog Check Inspection, the vehicle is not required to have a Smog Check Inspection. But, if the Smog Check Inspection is performed in this sixty-one to ninety (61-90) day time frame, the vehicle must pass the inspection.
8.Determination of an individual vehicle's registration history shall be based on registration data for that vehicle, obtained from DMV records. If DMV registration data provide inconclusive results for an individual vehicle, then copies of the applicable vehicle registration certificate may be used.

Vehicle Functional and Equipment Eligibility Inspection

The vehicle dismantler will only purchase your vehicle for the Vehicle Buy Back Program if it meets the following requirements:
1.The vehicle must have been driven to the dismantler site under its own power.
2.The vehicle dismantler will inspect the vehicle to ensure it meets the following requirements and must reject the vehicle if the vehicle fails any one of these requirements: A.All doors must be present and in place.
B.The hood shall be present and in place.
C.The dashboard shall be present and in place.
D.Windshield shall be present and in place.
E.The driver's seat must be present and in place.
F.Interior pedals shall be operational.
G.The vehicle must have one bumper and all side and/or quarter panels shall be present and in place. Vehicle drivability must not be affected by any body, steering, or suspension damage. Exhaust system shall be present and in place.
H.One headlight, one taillight and one brake light shall be present and in place.
I.One side window glass shall be present and in place.

3.The vehicle dismantler will complete the following functional inspection, and shall reject the vehicle if the vehicle fails to complete the following test:

Insert key, vehicle engine must start using keyed ignition system. In addition to the keyed ignition switch, ignition or fuel kill switch may be activated if required to start engine. The vehicle must start readily through ordinary means without the use of starting fluids or external booster batteries. The vehicle shall be driven forward for a minimum of 25 feet under its own power. The vehicle shall be driven in reverse for a minimum of 25 feet under its own power.

 

[mercurial]

OP doesn't qualify for that program. I won't say why since I'm sure OP can figure it all out and "keep things on track", and I wouldn't want to lead him down the wrong track with my "non-lawyer" advice.

 

[Yakoo752]

shit - just the '94 or older

wtf

 

[psychocandy]

I wasn't saying my friend would buy it. He's got an original pancake & wants to keep it that way. I was just saying I support the enthusiast community. I don't actually have any direct contact to someone who'd want to buy. So, not gonna jump through those hoops if Cash For Clunkers is easier.

There really are no hoops to jump through, as long as the seller and buyer are not out to try and screw each other. If you have VW friends, let them know what you've got.

The only thing you would have to be worried about is a buyer who takes the car to a shop, gets it fixed to pass smog, and gives you that bill. That's it. And that's all you could be responsible for. The rest of the car could be a total pile, but you're never on the hook for any of that. The only ones who get in further trouble for the rest of the car, are ones who misrepresented it in the first place.

Yakoo, a buddy of mine took a 4x4 Toyota pickup and re-registered it with the DMV as "off road only". He took the plates in and told them his plan for a non street legal crawler, and he got the same green tag type registration that dirt bikes get. i didn't fully read everything in the thread, so I'm not sure if that may help with your plans.

 

[bpw]

I wasn't saying my friend would buy it. He's got an original pancake & wants to keep it that way. I was just saying I support the enthusiast community. I don't actually have any direct contact to someone who'd want to buy. So, not gonna jump through those hoops if Cash For Clunkers is easier.

Cash for clunkers doesn't apply to your car since it is too new.

 

[psychocandy]

Yeah, info from this thread & the Cash For Clunkers website was somewhat confusing, but I'm wondering if this is relevant for my car that is not older than MY 1995:



California Cash for Clunkers Program
2016 California Cash for Clunkers Program

We understand this can be confusing but we have tried to organize the information below to answer your questions and help you select your best option.

Goal of the program
The goal of the BAR program is to provide a cash incentive to retire older polluting cars. The BAR program payout is a capped at $1,000 ($1,500 low income) and is an incentive based amount not based on the true market value of your car.

5 Key Considerations for California car owners.

Question 1.
Has Your Car Passed Smog Test?
YES – If your vehicle passed smog you may wish to get a quote from a private car buyer or donate your car to help children in need.

If your car has passed Smog Inspection then you must be considered low income to sell your car using the BAR program. See what household income level is considered low income.

If your car passed Smog Inspection and is 1995 or OLDER you should research the local air district programs.

Disqualified as my car is newer than 1995.

NO – My Car Failed Smog – go to Question 2

If I take it to a smog check place, it will fail automatically due to CEL. But it's not currently due for a smog check. Can I do this anyway? Someone earlier in the thread implied it was fine. But I don't want to get it in the system as can't pass smog in case I need to donate it.

Question 2.
Is your car running and driveable?
YES – To sell your car to the state you must drive it to a local dismantler.

Question 3.
Is your car registered in California?
YES – In order to be paid to retire your vehicle it must have a current California registration and must have been continuously registered in CA for the past two years (note:the registration must not have lapsed for more than 120 days during those two years).

After reviewing the above considerations most car sellers will find they fall into one of the following six scenarios:

1. You Failed a Smog Test and want to sell your car via BAR.

This is the situation I'm looking at if I take it to a smog test place with the CEL. I don't see a '95 or older clause for cars that don't pass smog. Does that mean my car would be eligible?

Has your vehicle FAILED the latest Smog Check Test?
The State’s recently enhanced Consumer Assistance Program (CAP) was developed by the ARB in consultation with BAR and provides $1,000 per vehicle and $1,500 for low-income consumers for unwanted vehicles that have FAILED their last Smog Check Test.

Here are the basic requirements for cars that have FAILED SMOG TEST

Vehicle must be driveable (Note: If your vehicle is not driveable or doesn’t meet the other requirements listed below you may wish to contact a private California clunker car buyer that will buy your car and provide free towing)
$1,500 to applicants that meet low income requirement (See income chart below)
$1,000 to applicants that DO NOT meet the low income requirements (See income chart below)
Applicant for reimbursement must be the Registered Owner or Joint Registered Owner
Vehicle is NOT a new California Registration
Vehicle ownership is not currently being transferred to a new owner
Vehicle is registered to individual not a business or charity
If a “Salvage Vehicle” then must be registered with Salvage Title
Vehicle must have been continuously registered in CA for past two years
Vehicle must be currently registered in CA
Vehicle must be a Car, Van, Truck or SUV weighing less than 10,000 pounds
Applicants are limited to one vehicle retirement per 12 month period or two vehicles per 12 month period if retired vehicles are jointly registered to applicant and another party

The vehicle must also meet certain Vehicle Equipment Requirements and Vehicle Operational Requirements.

Vehicle Equipment Requirements

All doors
Hood lid
Dashboard
Windshield
At least one side window glass
Driver’s seat
At least one bumper
Exhaust system
All side and /or quarter panels
At least one headlight, one taillight, and one brake light

Vehicle Operational Requirements

Vehicle must be driven to a CAP-contracted dismantler under its own power.
Vehicle engine starts readily through ordinary means without the use of starting fluids or external boost batteries.
Vehicle drivability is not affected by any body, steering, or suspension damage.
Vehicle is able to drive forward a minimum distance of 10 yards under its own power.
Interior pedals are operational.

You must be able to drive the car to one of the approved dismantlers.

If your vehicle meets the requirements you can download the application.

All the above conditions are otherwise met. Except for the fact that smog cert is current. There is no '95 or older clause for cars that fail smog.