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Downshifting/"blipping" question

L

Lumberjack

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
-
Moto(s)
Z1K, Street Triple R
I'm not sure I'm doing this throttle blip thing correctly - I read recently that people blip the throttle when they disengage the clutch, which is before when I do it.. And they do it for just a second, whereas I blend the throttle in..

Here's what I do when downshifting (when doing so when not actually slowing down and/or accelerating), please let me know if this is correct:

1. I pull the clutch in (not all the way in, just enough to disengage the gear)

2. Downshift

3. Add in throttle before I let the clutch back out

4. let the clutch back out while the throttle/rpm is where i think it needs to be to match engine speed


So, I don't "blip" the throttle at any point - when I open the throttle I open it to a steady amount and then once the clutch has been let back out and the gear is engaged that amount of throttle is usually about what I wanted to have anyhow...

Are you supposed to blip the throttle during the part where you first pull the clutch in? i don't quite get this - I've ridden trackdays and other times when I was doing aggressive downshifts - downshifting at a time when the new gear is spinning at like 8k rpm - at those times I compensate by giving it a whole lot of throttle as I let the clutch back out - never had any problems with rear wheel hop or the like (well, it has happened before, but that's because I hadn't given it enough throttle as I was letting the clutch back out..)

Or is blipping the throttle for when you're downshifting because you are trying to slow down - in this case I do more of a blip then a steady throttle application during steps 3-4 above - in other words, I just give it a good and quick bit of throttle as I let the clutch out but then lay off the throttle because I'm trying to slow down (such as approaching a light) - I give it the throttle so there's no sudden jerk of engine braking..

Any ideas about this?
 
rev matching without blipping is fine if it works for you. A good amount of experienced track riders do this.

The benefits of not blipping is: less wear an tear on the engine, and your bike is less likely to be upset from bar input and engine vibes and you can give more attention to braking.
 
Lumberjack said:
Any ideas about this?
Click to expand...

Apart from wanting to match revs, part of the objective is to have the driveline disengaged for as little time as possible.

This is my sequence if using the clutch:

  1. Pull clutch
  2. Blip
  3. Downshift
  4. Release clutch

The above actions occur very quickly (about a half second in total), in sequence. I release the clutch quickly, rather than feathering it out. If I'm downshifting without the clutch, I skip steps 1 & 4.
 
My brain is very visual, goes by feel. breaking this down would be tough.
Blipping became necessity for me at some point on the track. It is very "feel based", done without thinking.
My advice? Watch the blipping sequence and explanation on Twist of the Wrist II dvd, or youtube blipping throttle and see if there are any good examples. You can see it and hear it done properly.
Isle of Man tapes also show alot of proper blipping.
Practice in a long straight line first.
Finally, do a track day as soon as you can; Playing with blipping on the track is not only easier, but you will "get it" so much faster...and use it too. On the street it's not as necessary, but i definitely use it there too. :thumbup
 
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Always wondered about the blipping thing. I have a slipper clutch, do you still do the same?
 
I do exactly what you do - match engine speed to gear as I gently let clutch out.

What is the supposed benefit of blipping? Faster gear change? Thanks, I can get it done quite quickly without and I'm not racing so if it takes me 0.1 sec longer to shift, I'm ok with that. That's 0.1 sec less I have to spend at work, or 0.1 sec I spend longer riding!. Just think if I have to shift multiple times on my trip - it might actually take me a second or two longer on my ride! Either way, WIN! :)
 
tzrider said:
Apart from wanting to match revs, part of the objective is to have the driveline disengaged for as little time as possible.

This is my sequence if using the clutch:

  1. Pull clutch
  2. Blip
  3. Downshift
  4. Release clutch

The above actions occur very quickly (about a half second in total), in sequence. I release the clutch quickly, rather than feathering it out. If I'm downshifting without the clutch, I skip steps 1 & 4.
Click to expand...
nOW, If i were to think about it(which i don't), i DO IT DIFFERENTLY. I do 1, then 3 then 2 then 4 but in the same split second....while braking as step 5.
See? Too much thinking already.

Turns 4,7, 9 and 11 at Infineon comes to mind wherein one may need to go from 4th to 2nd quickly for a tight turn in proper gear.

If you get a chance go to the AFM or AMA races at Infineon and sit at turn 9 you will hear alot of blips going on.

Darwin said:
I do exactly what you do - match engine speed to gear as I gently let clutch out.

What is the supposed benefit of blipping? Faster gear change? Thanks, I can get it done quite quickly without and I'm not racing so if it takes me 0.1 sec longer to shift, I'm ok with that. That's 0.1 sec less I have to spend at work, or 0.1 sec I spend longer riding!. Just think if I have to shift multiple times on my trip - it might actually take me a second or two longer on my ride! Either way, WIN! :)
Click to expand...

What you and the OP are doing now is the precursor of blipping, the latter is just done much faster, completed later and often involves braking with it. But blipping is by no means necessity any more than slipper clutches and quickshifters are absolute necessity to be the fastest guy in the world.
As Darwin said, at safe and sane speeds.... You can ride forever without blipping.
ON THE TRACK blipping is necessity for higher leve/faster riding and soon becomes rote.
 
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Best thing you can do is just try not to hard to think about it. Practice coming up to intersections and exiting freeways. Eventually it comes naturally to you.. You don't wanna sit there and over analyze this too much and crash doing so.
 
Thateguhate said:
Best thing you can do is just try not to hard to think about it. Practice coming up to intersections and exiting freeways. Eventually it comes naturally to you.. You don't wanna sit there and over analyze this too much and crash doing so.
Click to expand...

+1 overthinking will lead to distracted riding. This is one of those things that will sort itself--remember it all happens in a split second--just let it happen.
 
Thateguhate said:
Best thing you can do is just try not to hard to think about it. Practice coming up to intersections and exiting freeways. Eventually it comes naturally to you.. You don't wanna sit there and over analyze this too much and crash doing so.
Click to expand...

CaptCrash said:
+1 overthinking will lead to distracted riding. This is one of those things that will sort itself--remember it all happens in a split second--just let it happen.
Click to expand...
+2, (Or is it 3?) all you want to do is match the revs of the motor, to the wheel speed, and whatever works for you is the correct way. It kinda varies from bike to bike, person to person.
Ya could get a slipper clutch, then ya don't gotta worry 'bout it no mo. :laughing
 
Why You Blip
When you downshift, your engine will be turning higher rpm for the same speed--moreover, your engine will drop rpms naturally as you let out the throttle to shift. You blip the throttle just before letting the clutch back out to raise the rpms to match your speed.

Why Not Just Hold the Throttle?
You'll get a forward surge as the clutch re-engages. When you blip, the idea is to raise the rpms and then let them fall as you re-engage the clutch. Because you're not on the throttle as the clutch engages, you don't get forward power. Because you've raised the rpms, the lower gear engages smoothly without jerking the bike or locking the rear tire.

What's the Order of Operations?
Pull in clutch and let off throttle together (throttle slightly later)
Down shift
Blip throttle
While revs start to fall, release clutch smoothly

Approx time: .10 seconds
 
Angel-be-Good said:
What's the Order of Operations?
Pull in clutch and let off throttle together (throttle slightly later)
Down shift
Blip throttle
While revs start to fall, release clutch smoothly

Approx time: .10 seconds
Click to expand...

Personally, I agree with your overall approach. I would invert the second and third steps for a couple of reasons. First, it takes a small amount of time for the engine to rev and fall again. You could be shifting as the revs peak and begin to fall, allowing you to complete the shift that much sooner. Second, should you choose to downshift without the clutch, you don't need to change the order or timing of those two control actions to do it.
 
Practically, you're doing it all at once. But I think if you want to break it down for practicing, it's easier to think of the blip coming just before the clutch re-engagement. If you were coasting to a stop, you could downshift a few gears and hold in the clutch and only blip just before re-engaging the clutch once you're down to speed for the low gear.
 
Angel-be-Good said:
Practically, you're doing it all at once. But I think if you want to break it down for practicing, it's easier to think of the blip coming just before the clutch re-engagement.
Click to expand...

It's evident that there are different ideas about this, but speaking for myself, I'm dead sure about the sequence I've described. I'm really not doing everything at once and I absolutely do blip the throttle slightly ahead of clicking the downshift.

If you're using the clutch when you downshift, it doesn't matter as much whether you blip and shift in any particular order. If you're not using the clutch, you cannot physically complete the shift without unloading the dogs by blipping a little bit.
 
you've gotta blip at the same moment where you step on your shifter. you have the best result, when you blip up the rpm on that level as you decide for downshift. it'll be smooth that way, because your rpm (not too high/too low) won't interrupt you when you gliding down through the gears.
does that help?


Lumberjack said:
I'm not sure I'm doing this throttle blip thing correctly - I read recently that people blip the throttle when they disengage the clutch, which is before when I do it.. And they do it for just a second, whereas I blend the throttle in..

Here's what I do when downshifting (when doing so when not actually slowing down and/or accelerating), please let me know if this is correct:

1. I pull the clutch in (not all the way in, just enough to disengage the gear)

2. Downshift

3. Add in throttle before I let the clutch back out

4. let the clutch back out while the throttle/rpm is where i think it needs to be to match engine speed


So, I don't "blip" the throttle at any point - when I open the throttle I open it to a steady amount and then once the clutch has been let back out and the gear is engaged that amount of throttle is usually about what I wanted to have anyhow...

Are you supposed to blip the throttle during the part where you first pull the clutch in? i don't quite get this - I've ridden trackdays and other times when I was doing aggressive downshifts - downshifting at a time when the new gear is spinning at like 8k rpm - at those times I compensate by giving it a whole lot of throttle as I let the clutch back out - never had any problems with rear wheel hop or the like (well, it has happened before, but that's because I hadn't given it enough throttle as I was letting the clutch back out..)

Or is blipping the throttle for when you're downshifting because you are trying to slow down - in this case I do more of a blip then a steady throttle application during steps 3-4 above - in other words, I just give it a good and quick bit of throttle as I let the clutch out but then lay off the throttle because I'm trying to slow down (such as approaching a light) - I give it the throttle so there's no sudden jerk of engine braking..

Any ideas about this?
Click to expand...
 
Might've been said already (didn't read entire thread) but what you are doing is basically blipping in slow motion. Thats fine. With time the amount of time it takes for you to find that RPM and shift will decrease to the point that its just a quick blip of the throttle rather than a smooth roll on.

I started the same way you did and without too much practice got to the point where I could snap down 3 gears in a heartbeat.
 
I see - think I get it now - another question though - is this blipping just for when you're in the process of decelerating/not using the throttle for forward power? Like when slowing/braking for a turn at the track or approaching a light?

When you're downshifting just because you want some more juice on hand you wouldn't blip, right? - you'd never let off the throttle since you're trying to accelerate? Only blip when you're not wanting forward acceleration after the shift?

Also, on the track, is it best to downshift one gear at a time, using this method, or can you drop from like 5th-->2nd all at one, just doing a mega-blip to match the high rpm of the incoming 2nd gear?

My bike is 1000cc but doesn't have a slipper clutch so I want to get this thing down for the track..
 
I'm sad that I really don't understand the question... :(

Growing up, I got to drive numerous vehicles that either had no syncro's or bad one's. If you wanted shift, either up or down, you had to learn to work the clutch/gas/ shifter just right...or suffer the indignity of gnashing gears.

Now, I have no clue what I'm doing, I just do it.

My advice, if you really want to learn how to "blip"; find an old vehicle with no syncro's...practice until you can shift up or down with nary a sound from the transmission.
 
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