Downsizing - I've seen the light!

[pulsar]

I was thinking seriously about a F700GS, but I'm going to wait for the see about the new 750.

it's going to be interesting to see how the new bike balances out. The F700 has a pretty solid reputation to being a "nice" bike, without being particularly exciting.

But the new Fx50GS series from BMW is taking the tact of catching up to the full boat 1200GS in terms of gizmos and electronics, in the smaller spec.

Like others, I'm keenly interested in the balance on the new bike since they relocated the gas tank back up. Part of the motivation of a smaller bike is that it needs to FEEL smaller, and the only place that really matters is when the bike is stopped. None of this "the weight vanishes when you're underway". When you grunting and swearing and rolling the thing around in your driveway or trying to push it up an incline and not get crushed, that's where "smaller" comes in to play.

But at the same time, the BMW engineers and designers aren't complete knuckleheads. While most people DON'T take these bikes off road, there are a lot who do. The F800 is spec'd out different for a reason. The GS is renowned for a reason. So, I'm willing to give BMW the benefit of the doubt and wait, and not simply immediately criticize random design decisions like the tank placement. The whole is typically more than the sum of its parts.

I sat on an F700 at the recent LB motorcycle show, and it felt very nice. I really liked it. The local dealer is out of F700s, and the sales guy was pretty excited about the 750. Basically "just wait" was the story, even though he was happy to sell me a used one he was going to put up the next week, he still said "just wait".

Reminds me when I went in to the Jeep dealer looking for a Grand Cherokee, and he basically shoved me out the door with a similar "just wait, the '14s are coming out soon". So I did, glad for that (amazing machine).

So, I just wait. Wait until March or April or so, supposedly. BMW guy didn't have anything specific. But he's been through the several hours of company indoc^H^H^H^H^Htraining on the new bike, and is pretty excited about what he's heard. He's not ridden one, however.

BMW is still coming out with '18 F700s while waiting for the 750. So, seems it's worth waiting for.

If this falls through, I was pretty happy sitting on the Yamaha MT-07 at the show, so that's a fall back for me. We'll see how it goes.

All true, except I can feel "smaller" when moving too, a lot in fact. I guess that depends on type of riding.

I am also looking forward to the new F750GS, I wish they gave it more hp though. I have zero interest in offroad, so having to get an F850GS to get the higher hp is silly IMO. Triumph doesn't do this between their XR/XC models, so I will be *very* curious to test the F750 and Tiger XR back to back.

Something tells me I will prefer the Tiger, but I will still prefer the F700GS. In fact, I *should* prefer the Tiger as it is right now, but I like I said there is an intangible feel about these F bikes that I find alluring.

A Hyperstrada though..

 

[numist]

I love smaller bikes, but basically all the small bikes with top spec components are totally inappropriate for riding on the street. Am I supposed to put risers on an RR?

Saw a 400 at EICMA this year that looked like it might have some nice goodies on it, but we’ll see if it ever makes it to market :/

 

[Junkie]

What street legal small sprotbiles with top spec components are currently sold in the US?

 

[mrzuzzo]

How is the f750/850 a lightweight bike?

Doesn't it weigh about the same as a S1000XR? If you're not going off road it makes sense to get the S1000XR instead, IMO.

I wouldn't get the f700/800 bikes myself. Had one, very uninspiring and boring ride, annoying vibes on freeway,. The Prius of motorcycles, IMO.

 

[RightCoastBias]

How is the f750/850 a lightweight bike?

Doesn't it weigh about the same as a S1000XR? If you're not going off road it makes sense to get the S1000XR instead, IMO.

I wouldn't get the f700/800 bikes myself. Had one, very uninspiring and boring ride, annoying vibes on freeway,. The Prius of motorcycles, IMO.

I'd give the Prius award to the NC700 before an F bike. But I'm a bit biased there.

 

[mrzuzzo]

I'd give the Prius award to the NC700 before an F bike. But I'm a bit biased there.

Yeah true the NC is more Prius like.

Either way neither bike would be my first choice in "downsizing". They are great jack-off-all-trades bikes but at the same time not really great at any one thing.

 

[RightCoastBias]

Yeah true the NC is more Prius like.

Either way neither bike would be my first choice in "downsizing". They are great jack-off-all-trades bikes but at the same time not really great at any one thing.

Agreed, unless you were downsizing from a Goldwing.

But the F800GS is quite a bit slimmer than its big brother and the bikes in that class.

At 500lbs, the real downsizing is engine output.

 

[Rumbo Sur]

Yet another reason for downsizing is the riders ability to pick the bike up if it ends up FLAT on it's side. Interesting how much easier a R1200GS is to pick up than a F800 if both laying on their side.

Those big cylinders on the Boxer really aid in getting the bike up just enough to make it a bit (A BIT!) easier to huck up than the F800. I've done both.

Even the lighter KTM 990 is tough to lift solo ... especially if on the down hill side of a slope. GET HELP!

The old dirt bike technique would be to "rotate" the bike round to where you're using the downhill to leverage advantage. Not a nice thing to do to your pristine mainly street ADV bike!

I mainly miss a larger engine doing all day, high speed highway riding. Also, the big bikes are much easier to pack up for multi-day trips if camping.
250's get a bit boring at 75 mph for 10 hours a day.

 

[Sportbiker]

The right bike for the right kind of trip.

I enjoy riding my FZ07 everywhere except when I ride 1000+ miles weekend. I enjoy riding my liter bike everywhere except when I go to local store or in stop and go traffic..

Smaller bikes are fun when the speeds are low and the distances are smaller. As soon as you have to ride long distances, the smaller bike fun subsides. Try doing an iron butt on a ninja 250.
Big bikes are really a lot of fun. The tickets it can get you and the tires it can chew can be a damper.

Moral of the story.. You need a bike of all sizes

 

[Maddevill]

What street legal small sprotbiles with top spec components are currently sold in the US?

I wouldn't call them as having top shelf components but can be easily upgraded. Ninja 300, new Ninja 400, CBR300, New Suzuki GSX250R Katana, Yamaha R3. KTM 390. The R3 seems to be the track weapon of choice last year. The KTM makes the most power but it's a single and has had some teething issues.

Mad

 

[Leaking Lewis]

I agree, F700 is a nice commuter bike for the Bay Area. I've found it to be a bit wide for ideal lane splitting, but maybe that's good as it makes me more cautious. Mandatory though, is a windshield upgrade.

 

[Junkie]

I wouldn't call them as having top shelf components but can be easily upgraded. Ninja 300, new Ninja 400, CBR300, New Suzuki GSX250R Katana, Yamaha R3. KTM 390. The R3 seems to be the track weapon of choice last year. The KTM makes the most power but it's a single and has had some teething issues.

Mad

Ninja 300 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

CBR300 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

R3 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

GSX250R Katana has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

RC390 has sealed cartridge forks, has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock



the RC390 has forks that maybe you could call middle shelf (maybe), all the rest are bottom shelf forks, all of them have bottom shelf shocks

yes, they can be upgraded, but they're nowhere near top shelf from the factory

 

[Marcoose]

Ninja 300 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

CBR300 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

R3 has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

GSX250R Katana has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock

RC390 has sealed cartridge forks, has damper rod forks, preload adjustment only on emulsion shock



the RC390 has forks that maybe you could call middle shelf (maybe), all the rest are bottom shelf forks, all of them have bottom shelf shocks

yes, they can be upgraded, but they're nowhere near top shelf from the factory

I have a split feeling about that. While these ‘budget’ or ‘entry level’ motorbikes do lack top-shelf components, well, apparently so do their posh sisters, because, the latter, by the time you’re done with farkles, you’re in for easily 1/3 of the MSRP. Go figure.

 

[Junkie]

I have a split feeling about that. While these ‘budget’ or ‘entry level’ motorbikes do lack top-shelf components, well, apparently so do their posh sisters, because, the latter, by the time you’re done with farkles, you’re in for easily 1/3 of the MSRP. Go figure.

All of the 600 supersports have quality suspension and braking components.

Are they perfect? No. Can they benefit from modifications? Yes. Are they better than the 250/300 class? Yes, by quite a bit.

 

[Marcoose]

All of the 600 supersports have quality suspension and braking components.

Are they perfect? No. Can they benefit from modifications? Yes. Are they better than the 250/300 class? Yes, by quite a bit.

So you too have a split feeling on upgrades. Got it.

 

[Cafe Racer]

I still figuring it out after 30 years and 30+ bikes.

But I still have my first and smallest sport bike ever purchased, 1990 Yamaha FZR400 since new. Its only running 52 hp but with the upgraded R6 suspension its all I need for trackways and Sunday morning sprints. Ive owned CBRs and RCs.... and ZX-Rs and R1s...

ADV travel. Been trying to figure it out for 15 years. Been up and down from the WR450 to the ADV950. Then down to a DR650 and now back up to a KTM ADV1090R.

Im hoping I finally got what I need. Knowing what you want out of the bike is important. The DR650 just didn't have the highway speed i needed but the weight was decent. My current 1090R is heavier but ..... we will see I suppose.

 

[zelig]

Horses for courses. I started on an RD400 (never should'a sold it) then switched to a TL1000S, which was utter overkill and thus laboriously reined in most of the time. Switched to the SM a decade ago and life was good. When my commute got long I added the B1250, but nothing puts a smile on my face like the little dirtbike that could.

New/used, bigger/smaller... there are so many good options out there, and changing it up periodically can be rewarding. If you have the means, I highly recommend it.

 

[Rumbo Sur]

I still figuring it out after 30 years and 30+ bikes.

ADV travel. Been trying to figure it out for 15 years. Been up and down from the WR450 to the ADV950. Then down to a DR650 and now back up to a KTM ADV1090R.

Im hoping I finally got what I need. Knowing what you want out of the bike is important. The DR650 just didn't have the highway speed i needed but the weight was decent. My current 1090R is heavier but ..... we will see I suppose.

Very nice range of bikes!
Which bike might depend on sort of ADV Travel we're talking about. I would love a WR450. (was yours street legal?) Dream bike for many. But I only rode a WR450 for a few hours in Baja ... and it felt like I could have ridden it RTW. Loved it.

Was a street legal one ... but had limited road speed. My XR250R was better with wide ratio 6 speed, cruising comfortably 55 to 60 mph.
That WR450 was spinning up at just 50 mph. But off road? Fantastic, IMO. Actually made deep sand riding FUN! No stress!

I agree about limited road speed of DR650. But only really have trouble doing group rides with other hooligans riding faster bikes ON ROAD.
They all can cruise at 90 mph. My DR650 will sit on 80 mph all day but leaves no room for passing as top speed is just under 100 mph (indicated), 90 actual and at high speed fuel economy goes downhill. Something to consider if 200 miles between fuel stops.

If the road tightens up and gets technical, the old DR does pretty good, can keep pace with faster bikes OK ... and off road it's quite good if well modified ... but no single track weapon.

But as a travel bike ... I have not found better than the DR650. For me, travel means crossing borders. I'm considering a WR250R but keep coming back to the DR when I think realistically about what various routes may entail.

Travel for me, reliability is number one consideration. Hard to beat the easy to service DR650. No computers, no radiator, waterpump or water hoses. No F.I. issues.

In terms of light ... the DR650 ain't light but it's much lighter than many other Dual sport or ADV bikes.

Antiquated? Ugly? Old Fashion? Slow? YES to all! But slow and steady wins the race traveling.

 

[Junkie]

while the WR450 has plenty of power to go faster than it ought to (or at least mine has been to ~110 before running out of space, not tucked), it isn't much fun on the freeway even with tall gearing and is fairly maintenance intensive

 

[fireblade929]

well, i think its all about the rider, ive been riding since i was very little and ive been in a couple of situations where my life has been totally dictated by the power of my bike. had i been riding a less powerful bike, i wouldn't be telling ypu this right now. ive heard that it is more fun to ride a small bike fast than having a big bike and not be able to go fast, or something like that. i think its like a gun, its better to have it and dont need it than to need the power and dont have it. just my two cents.