dropped bolt retrieved, Q re woodruff key

[SFMCjohn]

dropped bolt retrieved, Q re woodruff key?

made some huge progress getting a KLR project dug out from the back of my garage where I’d abandoned it while getting over my hurt feelings from having had dropped a bolt down the cam-chain tunnel when I was doing the top end ...

various efforts to dig the dropped bolt out from behind the alternator cover back through the tunnel failed, so there was nothing for it but to stick it in a corner and pout for over a year while awaiting inspiration to pull the stator. today was the day, apparently:

cam chain tunnel-of-doom. the dropped bolt is supposed to go near the bottom of the front of the tunnel and reach down through the cylinder into the case, if you don’t drop it further into the engine.

rotor holder under the foot peg for the rotor bolt.

rotor holder on top of foot peg for rotor puller ... KLR head pipe breaker bar, because that’s how KLR guys roll.

cam chain, crank end and balancer chain exposed ... where’s my bolt?

and, there it is ... fell all the way down under the balancer in the front of the engine.
no wonder I couldn’t fish it out ...

silver lining is having pulled the rotor, I can confirm there’s an after-market doohickey and make sure it looks happy ...

anyway.

when going to try to reinstall the rotor I’m having trouble lining up the groove in the rotor taper with my woodruff key.

it there a trick, or is it just a fussy job rewarding patientce?

I was trying to do it by putting the starter clutch on first and then the woodruff key and then the rotor. maybe I’ll see tomorrow if I can put the woodruff key into its slot in the crank first and try to install the starter clutch and rotor as a unit.

what I’m afraid of is missing the key’s slot in the taper and damaging things trying to torque the rotor bolt with the woodruff key not properly aligned. guess I’ll also try to read the manual again more carefully.

any advice so I don’t make things worse is appreciated, while I’m trying to get it back together properly.

 

[kuksul08]

I don't really see how you could miss the key. If it's not aligned it won't go on...

If you are worried about it dislodging it is common to punch some divots into the side of the key so it sticks tightly in the slot and can't fall out.

 

[SFMCjohn]

I don't really see how you could miss the key. If it's not aligned it won't go on...

If you are worried about it dislodging it is common to punch some divots into the side of the key so it sticks tightly in the slot and can't fall out.

that makes me feel better ...

I’m kind of ham-handed and often break the bike I’m trying to fix (or drop bolts where they don’t belong).

managed to ding up the key, so that gave it divots that make it stick nicely.
I can position it parallel with the taper/slot or cock it so it’s flush with the
taper and sticking up in the back. guess I’ll try it parallel.

suppose the difference between on or not is just that 1/16th of an inch the woodruff key is proud in its slot. that should be fairly obvious, maybe, if I’m paying attention.

anyway, thanks for the feedback. if I’m not breaking things, I’m overthinking them. laughing

 

[buellistic]

Is your Stator burnt?

 

[SFMCjohn]

don’t think we’re looking at a burnt stator ...?

the pre-gen KLR has a stator that includes an exciter coil to run the CDI ignition ... so it makes a spark if the engine is turning and will run with a dead battery.

the rest of the stator charges the battery. think that’s what we’re looking at with the two discolored-looking sections.

I can take a better pic, maybe it is burnt, idk.

certainly does look bad in the pic, but didn’t look burnt in the garage, that I recall. have a ‘73 Triumph that was melting stators, and they where usually pretty obviously messed up ...

have had the exciter coils fail on a different KLR, and the bike simply won’t start/run (no spark) when that happens, and pretty sure this bike was running, and running without charging issues, when I began working on the top-end.

we’ll see. do have a spare stator in my pile of KLR parts ... plus I imagine I can test this stator. I should probably do that. thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Lucytriple]

Looks burnt to me too. Measure the resistance between all three wires. Should be something like 0.5 ohms. Serendipitous find!

 

[Tom G]

Looks burnt to me too. Measure the resistance between all three wires. Should be something like 0.5 ohms. Serendipitous find!

I think SFMCJohn is right, these 2 coils look different. As if there was some paper wrapped around for isolation. They also look slightly wider. And if you count the copper coils, there are 15, so that would make 5 per phase. And 2 extras for the magneto.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Is your Stator burnt?

Looks burnt to me too. Measure the resistance between all three wires. Should be something like 0.5 ohms. Serendipitous find!

... these 2 coils look different. As if there was some paper wrapped around for isolation. They also look slightly wider. And if you count the copper coils, there are 15, so that would make 5 per phase. And 2 extras for the magneto.

I'll find my multi-meter, or buy another or borrow one, and check the stator.

I've messed up enough attempted moto-mechanics to recognize that my weak spot as a "mechanic" is I tend to have total tunnel vision, deciding what's wrong first, and then going down that rabbit-hole despite obvious evidence in front of my eyes.

for example, didn't even notice the stator until buellistic's post.

anyway, couple maybe better pics of the stator in question, from this morning:

re: woodruff key alignment ... have we reached a consensus that it's just a fussy job requiring care not to break anything? no alignment tricks?

re: stator ... will look for my spare and post a pic of a different KLR stator for comparison, and will see if this one is in spec with a multi-meter, and post results asap.

edit, a description of previous-generation KLR stators:

Ignition System

The KLR600 and the Gen 1 KLR650s had a CDI ignition system with a couple of exciter coils on the stator to power the ignition system; this required no battery to run.

For the 1985 and 1986 KLR600 and continuing on through the KLR650 Gen 1 years, the charging system was changed to a three-phase system with 15 charging coils and 2 exciter coils (this should be considered an 18-coil stator with there being 3 'phantom coils' where the two exciter coils are). Finally, Gen 2 with its battery-run ignition system had 18 charging coils with no exciter coils.

thanks to all for the feedback so far, I'm an idiot-home-mechanic, who lives in fear and appreciates all the adult supervision I can get while tackling these chores which I hate doing, because I live in fear ...

 

[ST Guy]

Stator looks good to me. Test with meter to be sure.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Stator looks good to me. Test with meter to be sure.

will do ... and I'll report back here what the meter tells me.

any advice on an easy way to locate my woodruff key when reinstalling and torqueing the rotor ...?

 

[haybaler]

reassembly

"any advice on an easy way to locate my woodruff key when reinstalling and torqueing the rotor ...?"

On motors without woodruff key, pretty simple, line up woodruff key, install rotor/starter clutch assembly all together, no problem.

But if woodruff key would block the starter clutch wheel, then you need to install the wheel first, then install woodruff key with enough tension in position so that it would require medium force to move (medium force means slight tap of small hammer on small punch). That way you eliminate one problem which is the woodruff key getting pushed out of the groove.

Now the problem remains that when you line up to install, the rollers for the starter clutch get hung up on the starter clutch wheel. So figure out which way you need to turn the rotor/starter clutch assembly to allow the wheel to push the rollers back a little. Start assembly a little bit short of where the woodruff key would align, and turn in the right direction so the rollers push back and the groove in the rotor finds the woodruff key at about the same time.

So, it takes a bit of finesse, but after you do a few this way, not so bad.

Best of luck.

 

[SFMCjohn]

"any advice on an easy way to locate my woodruff key when reinstalling and torqueing the rotor ...?"

On motors without woodruff key, pretty simple, line up woodruff key, install rotor/starter clutch assembly all together, no problem.

But if woodruff key would block the starter clutch wheel, then you need to install the wheel first, then install woodruff key with enough tension in position so that it would require medium force to move (medium force means slight tap of small hammer on small punch). That way you eliminate one problem which is the woodruff key getting pushed out of the groove.

Now the problem remains that when you line up to install, the rollers for the starter clutch get hung up on the starter clutch wheel. So figure out which way you need to turn the rotor/starter clutch assembly to allow the wheel to push the rollers back a little. Start assembly a little bit short of where the woodruff key would align, and turn in the right direction so the rollers push back and the groove in the rotor finds the woodruff key at about the same time.

So, it takes a bit of finesse, but after you do a few this way, not so bad.

Best of luck.

exactly what I'm trying to deal with, the starter clutch/woodruff key/rotor interplay, I think.

I've been putting the starter clutch on the end of the crank, then my tight-fitting woodruff key goes into the crank. the rotor has a collar that fits into the starter clutch, and the rotor at that point is still sort of wobbly on the taper, so getting it to fit into the starter clutch is fussy, too.

I'll try your start-a-bit-short approach. mostly just need the confidence that while it may be fussy, that I'm doing it more or less correctly.
actually, I probably was not doing it correctly, because I wasn't really accounting for the starter clutch rollers hanging up on the rotor, or how to get them out of the way.

when I was taking it apart it took me a quite a while to figure out I couldn't draw the rotor and starter clutch off as a unit, because (as it turned out) the woodruff key was in the way of the starter clutch. that was at least a half-hour of head scratching.

 

[Eric B]

Is the woodruff key a half moon style, and the crank/rotor interphase tapered?

 

[SFMCjohn]

Is the woodruff key a half moon style, and the crank/rotor interphase tapered?

yes, half-moon style key, tapered crank/rotor interface. Probably typically Kawasaki. at least I recall my EX500 engines had the same set-up, a million years ago, the last time I tried to install a rotor.

I can rock or cock the half moon in its crank groove so it sits flush to the taper in the front and sticks all the way up in the back, or rock it flush with the taper in the rear, etc., or I can align the key parallel with the taper so the key sticks up above the taper the same 1/16" or so that it sits proud in the crank pocket/grove along the whole length of the key.

 

[Eric B]

yes, half-moon style key, tapered crank/rotor interface. Probably typically Kawasaki. at least I recall my EX500 engines had the same set-up, a million years ago, the last time I tried to install a rotor.

I can rock or cock the half moon in its crank groove so it sits flush to the taper in the front and sticks all the way up in the back, or rock it flush with the taper in the rear, etc., or I can align the key parallel with the taper so the key sticks up above the taper the same 1/16" or so that it sits proud in the crank pocket/grove along the whole length of the key.

I think that’s common with mfgrs. My Yamaha is the same. My method is usually to have the front edge of the key slightly lower than parallel to the taper.
If the key escapes out the back, after pushing the rotor on, the rotor can spin.
If the key stays, You’re good.

 

[haybaler]

woodruff key

"My method is usually to have the front edge of
the key slightly lower than parallel to the taper."

Agree!

If the key escapes out the back, after pushing the rotor
on, the rotor can spin. If the key stays, You’re good.

Yeah, I think that's the problem, the key is a little loose, so it's difficult to deal with the starter clutch rollers and a loose woodruff key at the same time.
Here's some woodruff key advice from a source on the Internet:

 

[Lucytriple]

I think SFMCJohn is right, these 2 coils look different. As if there was some paper wrapped around for isolation. They also look slightly wider. And if you count the copper coils, there are 15, so that would make 5 per phase. And 2 extras for the magneto.

Yeah, makes sense and they sure do look better too in the other pics. I haven't seen a set up like this before. Funny, I have done several doohickeys and never noticed!

 

[Lucytriple]

and fwiw, sometimes keyed things go right on and sometimes they are fussy jobs. worse thing when you can't lay eyes on it to know for *sure* but then you take it off just to check and realize it was on, and then you feel better next time you get it just right again. i like placing them perfectly even.

 

[Cabrito]

Good job John! Sometimes you just have to put things on the back burner until you get up the gumption to dive back in.

You're soon to have a net positive KLR footprint..

 

[ST Guy]

Grease the shaft and what goes on it as well as the key and the slot it goes in. That will help.