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DUI Checkpoint

You wouldn't be the first to refuse to show your driver's license at a DUI checkpoint. I have arrested someone for doing just that. Arrested and convicted of 148 PC. Took his driver's license and booked it as evidence and towed his car. All perfectly legal and totally unnecessary.

I would have to disagree about it being legal. What was the PC to see his license? Because according to the way that the guidelines are written, and the way 2814.* is written, there is no provision for you to impede someone by asking to display ID. There is a reason there is a SCOTUS ruling for DUI checkpoints. Show me how it is legal for you to ask for ID without PC in a consentual encounter at a DUI checkpoint with no evidence of a crime. You must have PC to ask for ID. Asking for someones ID and them refusing is not grounds to be convicted of CPC 148. Sure you can arrest for it, but that is is it really neccesary? And is it even legal for you to ask for the ID when there is no evidence of a crime?
 
The question was answered when he stated the guy was convicted of 148(a)(1) PC for refusing to provide a DL at the DUI Checkpoint. Where is the confusion?

You're arguing a point because you don't agree with it, not because you have factual evidence to prove otherwise. The guy was convicted. Clearly 12 of your peers (and possibly a judge during a 1538.5 motion) agreed.
 
The question was answered when he stated the guy was convicted of 148(a)(1) PC for refusing to provide a DL at the DUI Checkpoint. Where is the confusion?

You're arguing a point because you don't agree with it, not because you have factual evidence to prove otherwise. The guy was convicted. Clearly 12 of your peers (and possibly a judge during a 1538.5 motion) agreed.

Where was the PC to ask for ID?

I have yet to see one person in this thread show me that.
 
I would have to disagree about it being legal. What was the PC to see his license? Because according to the way that the guidelines are written, and the way 2814.* is written, there is no provision for you to impede someone by asking to display ID. There is a reason there is a SCOTUS ruling for DUI checkpoints. Show me how it is legal for you to ask for ID without PC in a consentual encounter at a DUI checkpoint with no evidence of a crime. You must have PC to ask for ID. Asking for someones ID and them refusing is not grounds to be convicted of CPC 148. Sure you can arrest for it, but that is is it really neccesary? And is it even legal for you to ask for the ID when there is no evidence of a crime?

First of all, a DUI Checkpoint is not a consensual encounter. As I posted earlier.

CVC 2814.2.** (a) A driver of a motor vehicle shall stop and submit to a sobriety checkpoint inspection conducted by a law enforcement agency when signs and displays are posted requiring that stop.

(b) Notwithstanding Section 14602.6 or 14607.6, a peace officer or any other authorized person shall not cause the impoundment of a vehicle at a sobriety checkpoint if the driver's only offense is a violation of Section 12500.

This is upheld by SCOTUS and is clearly not consensual. It is deemed a legal administrative detention that the police are enforcing. And while the police are enforcing a section in the vehicle code the following, which I also posted earlier, applies.

CVC 12951.**(a) The licensee shall have the valid driver's license issued to him or her in his or her immediate possession at all times when driving a motor vehicle upon a highway.
(b) The driver of a motor vehicle shall present his or her license for examination upon demand of a peace officer enforcing the provisions of this code.

All that aside, I suppose if it was challenged all the way back to SCOTUS and they agreed to hear the case it conceavibly possible that they would side with you and specifically prohibit any requirement to present a driver license during a DUI Checkpoint contact. Just understand, it is not ID, which you keep referring to. It is a driver license issued by the government for the privilege of driving a motor vehicle upon public roads.

If it's worth your time and energy to fight something like this then go for it! :thumbup
 
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First of all, a DUI Checkpoint is not a consensual encounter. As I posted earlier.

Deleted. I see no point in debating this any more. A DUI checkpoint is not a typical encounter, and I am not required to provide you with ID. You have guidelines you need to follow.

I'm done. Read the case law. It's all in there.
 
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Deleted. I see no point in debating this any more. A DUI checkpoint is not a typical encounter, and I am not required to provide you with ID. You have guidelines you need to follow.

I'm done. Read the case law. It's all in there.

DUI checkpoints are not consensual contacts. You are required to show your DL to a peace officer upon request per the CVC. It's not that hard to figure out unless you have Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Do yourself and your family a favor and comply with the officer's directions when you are told to exit your car because you are arrested for obstructing, delaying, resisting a peace officer. It won't go your way if you do otherwise.
 
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Deleted. I see no point in debating this any more. A DUI checkpoint is not a typical encounter, and I am not required to provide you with ID. You have guidelines you need to follow.

I'm done. Read the case law. It's all in there.

I challenge you to test your theory and report back to us on the results.
 
DUI checkpoints are not consensual contacts. You are required to show your DL to a peace officer upon request per the CVC. It's not that hard to figure out unless you have Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Do yourself and your family a favor and comply with the officer's directions when you are told to exit your car because you are arrested for obstructing, delaying, resisting a peace officer. It won't go your way if you do otherwise.

I'm going to post this one last time. It's the rules you must follow in the process of determining if I am drunk in a DUI checkpoint. It says nothing about detaining me to determine if I am a licensed driver. The rules for it are strict, and doing anything other than what is in the guidelines is over stepping the legality of the checkpoint.

They are guidelines that you must follow in order to protect my 4th amendment rights.

Police conducting sobriety checkpoints should detain each motorist only long enough for the officer to question the driver briefly and to look for signs of intoxication including alcohol on the breath, bloodshot eyes or slurred speech. If the driver does not show any symptoms of intoxication, the driver should be permitted to drive on without further delay. If the officer does observe signs of impairment, the driver may be directed to a separate area for field sobriety tests to be conducted. At that point in the checkpoint, the further investigation must be based on probable cause, and general policies of detention and arrest would still apply.

Show me where that says you are to ask for my DL. It specifically prohibits doing anything other than checking for my sobriety. Once I am on to secondary, yeah, go ahead. But in the initial stop, no, you are not to be asking for my DL. And this is straight from the California Supreme Court. How much more clear can it be? Or are you above the Supreme Court of California? A "Driver License Checkpoint" is not legal. It's as close to "Papers Please" as it gets, and tramples all over the fourth amendment. Combining checkpoints

So, in essence, you are operating outside of a Supreme Court decision, unless you send the driver off to secondary.

It's all up there, in the Supreme Courts decision. Seems pretty clear to me. While I might be being "detained" for a DUI checkpoint, attaching the "Drivers License" checkpoint to it, no matter how you slice it, IS a violation of my 4th amendment. The Supreme Courts, both US and CA have deemed that it is only for a sobriety check, and nothing else.

This is like talking to a wall. Read the case law, on the laws you are sworn to uphold, so you have a better understand of exactly what it is you are doing. Or rather, doing wrong. Also, read the guidelines you are supposed to follow when you are done reading the case law. Because I doubt that you have. It sure seems that way. And, this is why the SCOTUS and SCOCA exists. Because local judges and municipalities do get it wrong from time to time. So they are the "checks and balances" that sort these things out. They have done that here. And probably will again soon. All it's going to take is one ACLU attorney to pass through a checkpoint and feel violated for it to happen, or a friend of one, or someone with enough money to fight it to the end.

Yes, I am accusing you of operating outside the guidelines set forth by the California Supreme Court for conducting a proper DUI checkpoint. And I also am accusing you of violating the 4th amendment when you ask to see someones DL in a DUI checkpoint. And I say that because it goes against the guidelines set forth by the agency that makes the final rulings on the scope and intent of the laws that govern this state. Bring in every peanal code you want, every CVC code you want. Throw them all out there. Because in the end, the only opnion that matters is the one that the Supreme Court has. And well, on this, they have already spoken. See the quote and bolded above.
 
remember pics (in this case video) or it didn't happen. I anxiously await your detailed report.
 
Generally I believe that a check point is an illegal search and seizure. If there is no probable cause for me to be detained, then it is a violation of the 4th amendment. I don't drink, don't use drugs, have a valid license and have insurance. Even in the industry in which I am employed, I have suffered illegal search and seizure by the Federal Government by having to do the pee test. Our government agencies continuously create new laws that violate the constitution, and now do so at an alarming rate. Does 'Prism" come to mind? Regarding my employment in an industry where the Federal Government imposes illegal search and seizure, my choice was to volunteer my participation so everyone was happy. I have also voluntarily submitted to check points so as to avoid the trouble of defending my rights as a US citizen.
I'm afraid that our apathy towards this continuous loss of rights and freedom (of which I am an guilty) have led us down a path from which we cannot return. Our government is now ungovernable. I think from here on out, we the people are just along for the ride, suffering whatever the Big Brother throws on us. At the next illegal check point? Yea, I'll submit. I can't afford not to.
 
I'm going to post this one last time. It's the rules you must follow in the process of determining if I am drunk in a DUI checkpoint. It says nothing about detaining me to determine if I am a licensed driver. The rules for it are strict, and doing anything other than what is in the guidelines is over stepping the legality of the checkpoint.

They are guidelines that you must follow in order to protect my 4th amendment rights.



Show me where that says you are to ask for my DL. It specifically prohibits doing anything other than checking for my sobriety. Once I am on to secondary, yeah, go ahead. But in the initial stop, no, you are not to be asking for my DL. And this is straight from the California Supreme Court. How much more clear can it be? Or are you above the Supreme Court of California? A "Driver License Checkpoint" is not legal. It's as close to "Papers Please" as it gets, and tramples all over the fourth amendment. Combining checkpoints

So, in essence, you are operating outside of a Supreme Court decision, unless you send the driver off to secondary.

It's all up there, in the Supreme Courts decision. Seems pretty clear to me. While I might be being "detained" for a DUI checkpoint, attaching the "Drivers License" checkpoint to it, no matter how you slice it, IS a violation of my 4th amendment. The Supreme Courts, both US and CA have deemed that it is only for a sobriety check, and nothing else.

This is like talking to a wall. Read the case law, on the laws you are sworn to uphold, so you have a better understand of exactly what it is you are doing. Or rather, doing wrong. Also, read the guidelines you are supposed to follow when you are done reading the case law. Because I doubt that you have. It sure seems that way. And, this is why the SCOTUS and SCOCA exists. Because local judges and municipalities do get it wrong from time to time. So they are the "checks and balances" that sort these things out. They have done that here. And probably will again soon. All it's going to take is one ACLU attorney to pass through a checkpoint and feel violated for it to happen, or a friend of one, or someone with enough money to fight it to the end.

Yes, I am accusing you of operating outside the guidelines set forth by the California Supreme Court for conducting a proper DUI checkpoint. And I also am accusing you of violating the 4th amendment when you ask to see someones DL in a DUI checkpoint. And I say that because it goes against the guidelines set forth by the agency that makes the final rulings on the scope and intent of the laws that govern this state. Bring in every peanal code you want, every CVC code you want. Throw them all out there. Because in the end, the only opnion that matters is the one that the Supreme Court has. And well, on this, they have already spoken. See the quote and bolded above.

You posted on the LEO forum and received the answer to your question. What you do with it is up to you. Good luck 😎
 
You posted on the LEO forum and received the answer to your question. What you do with it is up to you. Good luck ��

Yes, I did. because I wanted to see what makes LEO's think they are allowed to operate outside of set guidelines they are supposed to be operating by. All I recived was "Rabble rabble, respect my authority, rabble rabble." I will respect your authority as far as you are allowed to take it. I am the first person to be nice and courtious to a LEO. Mostly because I have never run across one who has given me a reason not to. And, I have been through a few DUI checkpoints in my town, and have never been asked once to provide my DL. Only "Have you had anything to drink tonight?" To which, "No sir." A quick peak around to see if there is any open containers, a quick look at my eyes, and I even got the "Follow my finger" at one. Okay, have a nice night. I choose not to avoid them, because I have nothing to hide, and it has been ruled a "justifiable intrusion" to the 4th amendment in the interest of safety of the greater public. But asking for an ID and terming it a "Drivers License" checkpoint is against the 4th amendment, and has been ruled on already. There just hasn't been enough of a stink to make it an issue, yet. And because it catches people who are breaking the law, it's going to take a while to gain some traction.
 
stop talking and start doing. search hard enough I'll bet you could find a checkpoint tonight and you could report back tomorrow. git to gittin.
 
stop talking and start doing. search hard enough I'll bet you could find a checkpoint tonight and you could report back tomorrow. git to gittin.

I'm not some vigilantie out looking to cause trouble. But I will stand up for what I believe is right. I have a life to live, and don't need to be spending it looking for trouble. But I know the difference between what is right, what my rights are, and what is overstepping those rights. Just because a LEO does it, doesn't make it correct. Thankfully, I haven't had that experince yet.

And there was a question about submitting to the TSA in this thread earlier. I looked (not very hard) and it's gone now. But, I fly for a living, don't even get me started on those goons. And again, the SCOTUS has ruled that that is also in the better interest of public safety, so I have no choice but to submit, almost every day. What boggles my mind is I am searched for weapons at a TSA checkpoint. Did someone forget to tell them that I am at the controls of a weapon? When I was flying freight, single pilot, the TSA tried to take our crash axes away. WHo am I going to highjack, myself? In the airplane I was flying, with the back full of freight, I had no access to the emergency exits, and if I had to land on the belly, the door would be usless. I would have to cut my way out. I remember my cheif pilot telling the TSA "Fine, but if I have a pilot die because he couldn't cut his way out of a burning airplane, his blood will be on your hands." We got to keep our crash axes.
 
I'm not some vigilantie out looking to cause trouble. But I will stand up for what I believe is right. I have a life to live, and don't need to be spending it looking for trouble. But I know the difference between what is right, what my rights are, and what is overstepping those rights. Just because a LEO does it, doesn't make it correct. Thankfully, I haven't had that experince yet.

And there was a question about submitting to the TSA in this thread earlier. I looked (not very hard) and it's gone now. But, I fly for a living, don't even get me started on those goons. And again, the SCOTUS has ruled that that is also in the better interest of public safety, so I have no choice but to submit, almost every day. What boggles my mind is I am searched for weapons at a TSA checkpoint. Did someone forget to tell them that I am at the controls of a weapon? When I was flying freight, single pilot, the TSA tried to take our crash axes away. WHo am I going to highjack, myself? In the airplane I was flying, with the back full of freight, I had no access to the emergency exits, and if I had to land on the belly, the door would be usless. I would have to cut my way out. I remember my cheif pilot telling the TSA "Fine, but if I have a pilot die because he couldn't cut his way out of a burning airplane, his blood will be on your hands." We got to keep our crash axes.

Did you show them your pilot's license?
 
Hey I think it sucks too, but if you want to make a point just don't talk to the officer and just hand your license without saying anything and film.

I think the guy that wouldn't lower his window still got a ticket/arrested that held up so if they request to lower your window all the way I'd do that too.

I think every time a license checkpoint gets press for people challenging them and more people hold them up, it helps the possibility of ending them.

I'd also like to say I have nothing against the police, and respect the work they have to do and have met a bunch of super cool police officers. I just think license checkpoints are awful.



Looked it up, guy was found guilty:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jan/13/2-men-guilty-checkpoint-obstruction/
 
Hey I think it sucks too, but if you want to make a point just don't talk to the officer and just hand your license without saying anything and film.

I think the guy that wouldn't lower his window still got a ticket/arrested that held up so if they request to lower your window all the way I'd do that too.

I think every time a license checkpoint gets press for people challenging them and more people hold them up, it helps the possibility of ending them.

I'd also like to say I have nothing against the police, and respect the work they have to do and have met a bunch of super cool police officers. I just think license checkpoints are awful.



Looked it up, guy was found guilty:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jan/13/2-men-guilty-checkpoint-obstruction/


Perhaps the SCOTUS will hear the case lol.
 
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