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ECU or no ECU?

ThinkFast

ThinkFast

Live Long
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
San RiffRaph
Moto(s)
2012 BMW R1200GS
Name
Tom
Question for you racers. If you had your choice of campaigning a Yamaha YZF R7 with or without the ECU that was introduced with various ride modes along with ride-by-wire that enables quick shifting both up and down in the 2026 models (vs optional quick shifter that only works on upshifts with the cable throttle on the older ones), which would you choose and why?

Thanks for any input.
 
I'm quite sure the question, but it sounds like you're asking about an ECU refresh, Tom? Ride modes won't matter on a race bike IME. Most UCU flashes (Woolich, Ftec, etc.) allow all kinds of electronic tuning (engine braking, TPS rate, engine mapping, etc.). You know this, I know. QS's can be added either via the EDU or separate. I'm not privy to what works best on an R7 for the QS.

I've used Will Morten for a decade...and he's excellent. M-works in Vacaville, if you're looking for a good race builder.
 
Holeshot said:
I'm quite sure the question, but it sounds like you're asking about an ECU refresh, Tom? Ride modes won't matter on a race bike IME. Most UCU flashes (Woolich, Ftec, etc.) allow all kinds of electronic tuning (engine braking, TPS rate, engine mapping, etc.). You know this, I know. QS's can be added either via the EDU or separate. I'm not privy to what works best on an R7 for the QS.

I've used Will Morten for a decade...and he's excellent. M-works in Vacaville, if you're looking for a good race builder.
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Thanks Berto.

I may be using ECU incorrectly here. What I really mean is whether the ride by wire throttle and engine management related to it, which is new in 2026 and replaces the cable throttle and whatever the engine management was on the 22 to 25 versions, is better or more desirable.

The difference is:
The 2026 R7 receives a major overhaul, introducing Yamaha Chip Controlled Throttle (YCC-T) ride-by-wire, a six-axis IMU, lean-sensitive traction control, slide control, launch control, and adjustable engine braking

So I was just wondering whether these sorts of things would be appealing to a racer or not, because a lot of this was developed after I quit and I’m not sure what your average club racer would find useful these days.
 
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I upgraded from a 25 year old SV650 to a 2025 R9 last year, and the auto blipper is the best thing ever. There is a lot of value in a couple year old used bike, but ride by wire is sure nice to have.
 
peterhively said:
I upgraded from a 25 year old SV650 to a 2025 R9 last year, and the auto blipper is the best thing ever. There is a lot of value in a couple year old used bike, but ride by wire is sure nice to have.
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Interesting. I used to race SVs back in the day and was looking at both the R9 and the R7 as possible track bikes. I've heard from another guy who got himself an R9 for track use and loves it. Seemed to me the R9 was a bit more bike than I'd want/need for track work, and also more $$$ to get into than an R7. Found some decent used R7s, so before I get one and spend money adding rearsets, pipe, maybe shock and fork kit, steering damper I find out how valuable the 2026 electronics goodies are to a racer.

Why? Because if I find an older R7 that's been converted to a pure track bike and it turns out it's not competitive against the newest one, then when it's time to sell I'm going to lose a bunch of money because it won't be of any interest to race guys; and might be overbuilt and underpowered for regular trackday folks looking for a good entry-level bike (which is really what the R7 is). Which means I'll have a really cool track bike that no one wants, or wants to pay anything like what I will have put into it.
 
I had been riding and tweaking on this SV for 13+ years, so for the last few years I kept thinking I'd like to get a newer bike, with some of the fancy new bells and whistles. But I didn't want a too fast 1000, or a too peaky 600. I wanted a similar bike to mine, with maybe a little more power, modern ergonomics, and most definitely I wanted the auto blipper. This led me to forget about the R7 so I kept looking...

I looked at the Aprilia 660, KTM 890 Duke, then the Suzuki GSX8R, etc. but wasn't quite sure about those...I've never had an Italian bike, I've had a few glitches with my 1090 ADV, and my friends with 890 ADVs wear out camshafts faster than tires. The 8R looked OK stock, but seemed like I was going to want to upgrade quite a few things and I didn't want to mess with all that. Even drooled over a Kramer 890RR, or Team Hammer could build me a next gen GSX-R750 with aftermarket RBW, but that's like $40-$50k. I kept thinking let's keep it Japanese, and mostly stock. I spent years building out the SV, it was totally dialed in and all tricked out, and I just wanted a clean stock non exotic bike, at this point I don't wanna be wrenching all the time, I just wanna ride!

So when the R9 came out I thought, hey that might be the ticket. Everyone who has ridden a MT09 has raved about how nice the power is, and with the R9 you get that motor with sportbike ergonomics, a new frame, very nice suspension and brakes, etc. all for $12.5k. I went and looked at a demo bike and was so impressed with all the nice parts, so I pulled the trigger and ordered one. I was lucky to get it last May as they had some production issues and shortages. I have absolutely no regrets!

It is so smooth and easy to ride. Went from 80hp to 110hp, which sounds like a big jump, but the throttle response is so smooth, it is very easy to ride. Just the physical effort to twist the RBW throttle compared to the old flat slide carbs is like night and day. I did get the ECU flashed to remove the emission and noise related restrictions as well as optimize fueling, ignition timing, throttle maps, engine braking, etc. and it is like butter, really easy to pick up the throttle from zero to the first 5%.

In my case I'm just doing trackdays now, with no plans to race, so I have no concern about what's competitive with what, classes, or any of that. No need for a belly pan, so I'm running the stock pipe and bodywork...no worries about blowing sound at Laguna! But if you are planning to race, then you have a few more things to think about.

As to the value of the new electronics and ride by wire, again to me the main benefit is the auto blipper making corner entry easier. Especially on the track, with the R7 I can't see needing lower power modes, TC, or any of that. With the R9 when I'm on the track I have it set to full power and minimal interventions, so I do still have the benefit of traction control, slide control and wheelie control to help me if I get really ham fisted, but I'm not changing modes all the time or anything like that.

One nice thing about the R9, is I have been riding it for almost a year now on completely stock suspension and really have no complaints, although I do plan to upgrade this season. For the brakes I have upgraded the pads, but still running the stock stainless steel braided brake lines. I pull a fuse to turn ABS completely off, and switch BC brake control off. I'm still running stock clip ons and rearsets, and have accumulated plenty of spares from MotoAmerica Supersport teams that upgrade all that stuff. So yes it is more $$ than the R7 stock for stock, but also less "need" to upgrade anything.
 
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if they made the r9 when i bought my fz09 i may never have needed to step up to the s1000rr. that noodle chassis on the fz09 scared me away. but that triple cylinder motor is a blast :ride if the r9 has a solid chassis like it sounds, then it would be a great track bike. sounds like it is :thumbup
 
I watched the MotoAmerica teams work all year to get their R9 chassis dialed in, while Matthew Scholtz won the championship for Strack Racing, the other teams got their bikes late and were a step behind, still chasing setups at Ridge and Laguna. They were running the longer swingarm from the Tracer 9 like they run in WorldSSP, and the new SSP rules allowed for adjustable offset triple clamps, shock linkages, etc so they were all over the place getting the whole package sorted out while at the same time having to sort out the gearing at each new track etc.

Now the MA rules have changed and they are back on the stock swingarm, and will have to go through that whole process again...Daytona is always a bit of an outlier, it was everybody's first time racing the R9 there and they didn't seem to be able to put it together. The BPR guys had a tough weekend with technical problems and crashes in practice, Brenden Ketelsen got hurt then Josh Hayes had a bad pit stop in the 200. Blake Davis and Strack were struggling. and Dominic Doyle was the top R9, starting in the back and finishing 6th, which was awesome.

I am VERY interested to see how it all goes this weekend at Road Atlanta. I spoke to Hayes at the Volant Vivere track day at the Buttonwillow Circuit a couple of weekends ago, he is happy to be back on the stock swingarm and feeling very positive about how their bike is working. Those BPR R9s sure looked good every time he and Ketelsen went blasting by me!

I can't wait to get back out there, was planning to ride Sonoma Monday but the weather forecast doesn't look too good...we shall see. Next up, Sonoma Z2 May 11!
 
The six axis IMU stuff is awesome, but on an R7 I don't see much of the need given your experience. I ran the Bazaaz on my R6, but most of the time it was off. It slows the lap time down on the lower HP bikes, IME. The throttle by wire is nice for throttle mapping in different gears, but again...this is more important for the high HP bikes. TC's always nice to have...launch control/ never used it. Low HP bike, again. Engine braking is nice if you want a freer bike on entry, etc. All of these things have more use on the R9/R1. The R6 could have used it as well, but we (600 riders) never needed it much. We were used to spinning the rear from time to time.

All things being equal, if you can get the better electronics package: do it. You'll find some value in it for sure, just not as much as the larger bikes will find. Also, buyers will want the electronics too when you decide to sell her....

If I was looking in the R7 class, I'd get an RS660 and run with that. The Chassis are excellent (with suspension mods) and the motors play the part well. The R9 takes a lot of money to work, from what I've been told. Not getting a swingarm saves some cash, but that class is also pretty competitive, even at the club level. I'd probably run the old version Duc V2 in the 600 class or the trusty ol' R6. Kawi's are good, but the front ends take some getting used to...and most go back to the R6. Like Peter said; the 890's a good bike too, but the high bar version is a bit weird for a 600 class racer. Not unheard of, but different. Copart has enough Duc V2's for sale...less 660's, but they do show up (for parts).

All that being said; I can sell you a hell of an R6 Supersport, but I think your idea to be in the R7/660 classes as a better move.
 
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Back to the lightweight twins bikes, if I was still looking for one of those I would definitely take another look at the RS660, I got spooked when they had a few motor issues the first year in MA Twins Cup but they seem to be solid now, and I would also consider the GSX-8R, although again I think you would maybe need to do some more upgrades to that, like you would an R7, as it is a bit more of a budget bike. And I don't know how those bikes fit into what AFM classes if that's in your plans.
 
The electronics are nice safety margin devices for newer track riders too...and on larger bikes, for all track riders.
 
The thing I like about the R9 is it has the same sort of mellow powerband as the SV, it makes power from like 5k-11k rpm, nice and smooth from idle to the rev limiter. Where the built R6 I rode one time made power from like 10k-16k, and when it hit it was screaming like crazy and lofting the front wheel. Fun for the kids I guess, but too much excitement for me! I did also do a session on a nice Team Hammer Stock 1000 GSX-R, that thing was really sweet to ride, and that is what convinced me to go ahead and get a new bike, because of the modern ergonomics and again, the auto blipper!
 
There will always be "new and improved" the devalues older generations, so there is that, but agree starting with the newest baseline is probably smart. On the other hand, buying an existing race bike with all the development and expensive bits changed out to race parts is undeniably the best value at the expense of being older tech.
 
peterhively said:
As to the value of the new electronics and ride by wire, again to me the main benefit is the auto blipper making corner entry easier. Especially on the track, with the R7 I can't see needing lower power modes, TC, or any of that.
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As you probably already know, the R7 came out in '22, and through '25 remained unchanged. They offered a quick shifter on those years as an option (dealer installed, I think), and you can buy the OEM one for under $200 from the dealer if your R7 didn't come with it. It only offers upshifts, though, not downshifts like the auto blipper. That's available on the 2026 models which also went to RBW and a bunch of the ECU nannies.

I actually don't really need the blipper for downshifts anyways. I'm old skool when it comes to that, so a quick shifter is all I had on my SV racebike and I used that all the time, so I'd get that on whatever bike I end up with.
Holeshot said:
The six axis IMU stuff is awesome, but on an R7 I don't see much of the need given your experience. I ran the Bazaaz on my R6, but most of the time it was off. It slows the lap time down on the lower HP bikes, IME. The throttle by wire is nice for throttle mapping in different gears, but again...this is more important for the high HP bikes. TC's always nice to have...launch control/ never used it. Low HP bike, again. Engine braking is nice if you want a freer bike on entry, etc. All of these things have more use on the R9/R1. The R6 could have used it as well, but we (600 riders) never needed it much. We were used to spinning the rear from time to time.
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Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for by way of input on the ECU ride modes and RBW related stuff.
My main concern with getting a track bike is when it comes time to sell it. If I get one of the earlier ones that doesn't have the RBW and get it all set up for tracking, will I be limiting who might want to buy it if it doesn't have the electronics stuff. Mainly, would the racers not be interested. For instance, when the second gen SVs came out in early 2000s with a new frame, they didn't really obsolete the older SVs at the track in the Lightweight classes. The first gen ones remained quite competitive.
 
Depends on (personal) finances. If you've got the cash, like Jon (Juan) said in post #15 (My fav race number); buy the most recent you can find. You'll be glad you did when you want to sell. If racing it; consider replacement parts availability too. The market for ALL replacement parts has fallen a ton since the mid 2000's, where crashed bikes were everywhere. Copart still has bikes (and I can help you buy one) if you need a parts bike.
 
2cents: Buy an Aprillia RS660. The R7, even with the update, still has the same motor with 70-ish hp stock. You will put a lot of cash into whatever version you buy, crashed, used, new, etc to make that thing competitive in its class. I’ve ridden the R7 and it absolutely rocks on the track, but you will get dropped unless you tune the ECU, put on a full exhaust, intake, stacks, injection and do motor internals. Odd to me that Yamaha added all the nice farkles (which are pretty nice, TBH) and didn’t address the main complaint: the motor.

Also, there is a good video on YouTube from 44Teeth reviewing the latest R7.
 
Joezilla916 said:
You will put a lot of cash into whatever version you buy, crashed, used, new, etc to make that thing competitive in its class
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Thanks for your thoughts on that. Actually I won’t - the goal isn’t for racing, it’s simply for trackdays. I posted up in this forum because I wanted to get input from the racers among us to get their take on the value of fly by wire riding modes, etc etc and how much they value it vs the same bike but without it. My logic being that since I’m only going to use it for track days and will likely add some of the things racers might value (rearsets, maybe eventually suspension upgrades, etc), I’m thinking in terms of selling it when I’m done riding it and who would be interested in buying it, and would that include racers even if it didn’t have the 2026 ECU/fly by wire upgrade that the previous model years lacked.

Holeshot did a nice job of laying out the kind of input I was looking for, so I think I’m good to go - not going to prioritize the 2026 model with the FBW because from sound of it, on this bike anyways it’s not really giving anyone on the track an advantage over the earlier versions.
 
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