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ENOUGH!!! - "Chip-Seal Gravel Paving" - Risks to Motorcyclists -Time to Take Action?!

slower than... said:
I think chip seal is here to stay, as it is economical, fast to install, and durable. I think the majority of vehicles do very well with it, and so they are not going to alter their ways just to appease riders, regardless of the risks to us. In reality, the last thing they are interested in doing is making our twisties smoother for us to blast around on at illegal speeds. Think about it.
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That's pretty much how I see it. If you don't like the local roads, better just take it to the track if you want to go fast. They had recently done the gravel dump on a road local to me, when I rode on it I went slowly and had no problems, so I really can't sympathize with this. Someone above posted about a section of road they used to go 95mph on...I'm pretty sure that section of road has a speed limit, and I'm pretty damn sure it's below 95mph. I really don't see anything happening, other than people continuing to ride faster than they should on those roads and crashing
 
Great point Gary. I had my first-ever street crash on Los Lobitos a few weeks back on the same gravel. I was going very slowly and still lost the front on a downhill left-hander. I was on my SM. It is extremely dangerous.
 
If we have a complaint to make, let it not be about the method of paving, but about cleaning up the gravel after they're done with the chip seal. This will be a more effective complaint, and it would take care of the problem for the most part.
 
Climber said:
Bear Creek rd between San Pablo Dam rd and Alhambra Valley Rd changed from a fun road with long sweepers that you could safely take at 95 mph to an extremely dangerous rd (2 fatalities that I know of this spring several weeks apart) with dangerous ripples all along the road that makes it very dangerous to ride at a speed over 70 and that's with a well set-up suspension!
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Not sure that the argument above is going to sway any politicians or cyclists. Make a statement like this in public and you'll see speed bumps magically appear all over the damn road!

There is no way that in a time when California is on the brink of bankruptcy that motorcyclist are going to get any kind of sympathy on this issue.

In a few years when all this chip and seal crap starts to fall apart and there's no money to fix it, you'll still ride the same roads...it will just be on an off-road bike. Motard anyone?
 
Maybe the MSF or the AMA would be interested in speaking up about this? BARF isn't the only group of motorcyclists, you know.
 
i am in
some sort of petition maby
:thumbup
 
RhythmRider said:
If we have a complaint to make, let it not be about the method of paving, but about cleaning up the gravel after they're done with the chip seal. This will be a more effective complaint, and it would take care of the problem for the most part.
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Safety is definetely #1, but I totally agree that the solution to the problem is not changing the road surface, but to require maintenance crews to come back and clean up after themselves. We all complain about the conditions of our roads and then when the Counties go out and do something about it we complain again. Chip sealing is inexpensive preventative maintenance and a good practice IF the Counties clean up...

According to ODOT, chip sealing can extend the life of pavement by 4 - 5 times. (http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/2479711); that's a hard arguement to fight especially when all they really need to do is sweep the road a few more times until the loose gravel is gone.
 
Climber said:
Bear Creek rd between San Pablo Dam rd and Alhambra Valley Rd changed from a fun road with long sweepers that you could safely take at 95 mph to an extremely dangerous rd (2 fatalities that I know of this spring several weeks apart) with dangerous ripples all along the road that makes it very dangerous to ride at a speed over 70 and that's with a well set-up suspension! I personally believe that their shitty paving job was a direct contributor to the two fatalities!
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A couple of things- At least one of those fatalities involved another moving vehicle and had nothing do do with road surface, right? Second, the speed limit is 50, so complaining about 95... Third, chip sealing is an intentional process that makes things dangerous, and I'm sure they didn't intentionally make bear creek that way. Two different things entirely, in my opinion.

Besides, the bumps are fun! Hit one of the ones on the long straight and you can actually catch some air.
 
If you want to beat them. I would use the system against them . Find out what the Standard thickness of the gravel is when putting gravel over already paved road it can not be to thick . Example one of the roads off hwy 1 i think it was (Los Lobitos ) i was heading towards 84/Alices was very heavly graveled (to thick). My point would be if that was to thick above the "Standard", The county & insurance would be paying for my "Downed Bike" or how far in advance was the sign posted did I have time to slow down. or Did they chip & seal to less seal or to much . I would question the work. These are some of the angles I would try. I agree it`s not safe . for Motorcycles,Bicycles, & Cars. I dont know if there is a Standard in place . I know if insurance co. have to deal with paying out there will be. hope this helps
 
I absolutely hate chipseal. :mad

I like Aaron's idea of requiring them to sweep the surface 5-6 times, but in reality, this would solve only part of the problem. The philosophy is to grade the old stuff down, pour tar and add the ball bearing-like gravel. Then they roll it (and pat it and mark...) and sweep the excess off. Lastly, over the next few weeks or months, the cars (and bikes) pack down the gravel for them. This is why after Redwood was chipsealed over 12 months ago, I still have gravel with bits of tar flung at me from the tires of preceding vehicles.

As some of you may know, I crashed after the Redwood chipseal was done. A whole section of road was missing the tar to hold the gravel together. There was an unbelievable 4 inches deep of pure "unsealed" gravel on a section of road that overlooked a 50 foot embankment.

Here is one of the vids I took of the unsealed gravel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y42_z7mJYSY

Gary anything you come up with as far as action, I am onboard with. People have been killed as a result of chipsealing a road. The process should be outlawed.
 
I agree that the only way to get things changed is through law suits (especially in CA). These days public policy is very much guided by money and the results of suits.

I would thing that this suit would not even be that tough. You would just have to prove they are creating an unnecessary hazard.
 
Gary J said:
The total lack of disregard for the safety of a large percentage of the tax paying, registered vehicle operated, totally legal, public road users (motorcyclists) that is refelected in an approved (by who?) policy for paving public roads via a method of dumping truckloads of deep gravel across the roadway from shoulder to shoulder, having a smoke, and heading home and calling it a day, is so ludicrous that it seems like it's got to just be a bad dream! A bad dream, that unfortunately isn't .... and instead is reality for us motorcyclists.
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So true Gary. "Cheap-seal" sucks.
Though I havent crashed on these nasty pebbled roads, I've found myself on several occasions to be stuck on them due to lack of signage (mainly of Redwood road), only to SLOWLY ride through having rocks beaming at you left and right. A few instances, having my rear wheel slip from under me.

Rarely do I see a warning sign, and when I do, it's a little two-fold thing off to the side warning you of "uneven pavement", if you can see it. And that's basically it. Really crummy for any two wheeled cycle. :thumbdown
 
They chipseal because it's cheap. They don't sweep up because that costs money. Money is the only thing that will talk to them.

If every biker sues for damages for every little or major fall, things will change. But I'm not so sure enough would take action.

Attempting to get legislation passes is a decent idea, but I doubt it'd ever happen.
 
Hooli said:
Holy crap! :wtf I never knew it was that bad. :thumbdown In for doing something about this.
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+1

I'm surprised car drivers aren't complaining about how the gravel chips and ruins the finishes on their vehicles.

It's not better for cyclists. When DucatiHoney and I rode Bear Creek post-chipseal, there were several sharp bits of gravel lodged in her tire - descents were sketchy, and she ended up getting a flat.

Someone could post a thread about it on the roadbikereview.com forums, but with the apparently bad blood between motorcyclists and cyclists, I'm not sure how well that would go over.
 
MrCrash said:
Someone could post a thread about it on the roadbikereview.com forums, but with the apparently bad blood between motorcyclists and cyclists, I'm not sure how well that would go over.
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Perhaps someone here could register...and then, after they displayed their coolness among the bikers, just happen to mention that they also ride MC's. :p
 
Hooli said:
Perhaps someone here could register...and then, after they displayed their coolness among the bikers, just happen to mention that they also ride MC's. :p
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There are a lot of bicyclists on BARF, but that doesn't seem to calm down the bad blood over here. [end threadjack]
 
Gary,

I believe this is a good thing to chase.. Amassing some statistics and such would help.

Finding the right folks to write too.. etc.

I have some contacts within the biking community I can get too as well.
www.honorthestop.org founder He is the coach of the lady bicycle racer that was hit and killed by an officer last year and he is starting a true safety campaign around sharing the road.. cars, bikes, bicycles and horse folks.

Care to chat about it on the phone.. send me your number.

:smoking
 
If it weren't chip seal, I'm sure people would be bitching about potholes, filled-in potholes, washed out roads, bumps, etc.

As a taxpayer I'd want a bit more information about the broader picture before making up my mind. Seems more an issue of funding priority, and like it or not, arguments from people who use the roads for recreational acrivities are (and should be) secondary. If you are serious about this I'd suggest coming up with feasible alternatives.
 
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