Fear of Motorcycles

[Frisco Fred]

Man or woman, I believe the desire to ride stems from a persons temperment. People who were blessed with a timid disposition are less likely to need the extra stimulation of sailing in the wind... down the road among the cars and trucks. Others, need that stimulation just to calm down. No one better or worse, just different.

In a recent thread, a woman voiced concerns about getting on and riding her motorcycle. She's no different than the majority of the people in our society.

In another thread, another woman wrote about her concerns of riding in urban traffic. The apparent difference in these two cases is the second woman needed her motorcycle for transportation.

In either case, both should be considered gender neutral. Men are just less likely to admit their fear. Isn't it really a persons temperment that predisposes them to either take up sports or to take up music and other more cerebral games, less physical activities?

Still, after years of being in and around the world of two wheel vehicles and the people who ride them, I believe almost anyone can take advantage of the utility of a motorcycle. Transportation or sport, riding can be done safely. Being aware of what you're doing, exactly what you're doing it on and the environmental circumstances of where you're doing it in... are all critical eleiments for safe riding. Don't let others push you beyond your point of comfort. And learn in stages. Afterall, you can run a steam locomotive or fly a jet airplane if you take the time to learn.

 

[Kurosaki]

wat

 

[sanjuro]

Afterall, you can run a steam locomotive or fly a jet airplane if you take the time to learn.

You had some good points, but this is the one where you are wrong.

A locomotive engineer takes 18 weeks, but becoming a jet pilot is much harder. Many commercial pilots are from the military.

As for riding a motorcycle, it is not for everyone. However, I am not going to tell someone I never met that they should quit, which is the case when a noob posts on BARF.

I will offer situational advice which a BARFer may not have thought about, and let that person decide if riding is appropriate for themselves. And I try not to offer advice which affects your confidence negatively, like saying "Don't crash!"

 

[sanjuro]

As for treating women differently than men, it is a very subtle matter.

Most advice I offer will be gender-neutral, but I believe there are some differences in the upbringing which does affect how noobs ride.

For example, I started riding bicycles from the Bronx to Manhattan at age 15. My parents didn't stop me. My sister would never have been allowed to do it. Not surprisingly, today my sister is unwilling to bike commute down Valencia Street, while I have ridden to every neighborhood in SF.

My training methods are the same for both genders but the way I communicate might be different.

 

[redtail]

Ever since Shrek, I've had the fear of being cornholed by an ogre. Maybe that's just me...

 

[Frisco Fred]

Ever since Shrek, I've had the fear of being cornholed by an ogre. Maybe that's just me...

you'll need to contact Dr. Phil for that one...

see what happens when you try being serious

 

[rodr]

In either case, both should be considered gender neutral.

Perhaps, but the possible or imagined outcomes of seeking and giving advice are not gender neutral.

 

[Honey Badger]

As for treating women differently than men, it is a very subtle matter.

Most advice I offer will be gender-neutral, but I believe there are some differences in the upbringing which does affect how noobs ride.

For example, I started riding bicycles from the Bronx to Manhattan at age 15. My parents didn't stop me. My sister would never have been allowed to do it. Not surprisingly, today my sister is unwilling to bike commute down Valencia Street, while I have ridden to every neighborhood in SF.

My training methods are the same for both genders but the way I might communicate might be different.

IMO you've kinda hit the nail on the head here. Granted, I'm one of those girls who is generally a bit more aggressive in my approach to riding than some, but that being said, even among female racers that I've talked to there's a bit of a mental-approach difference between women and men.

Sure, techniques are the same. The bike doesn't care what diddly bits you're sporting, it only cares what inputs it does (or doesn't) receive. But in general, I've definitely noticed a difference in how women (of similar skill levels to their male counter parts) mentally approach riding at a variety of levels.

For instructors of any level learning how best to communicate with each individual is one of the bigger challenges IMO. As for online forums, it's hard to know what will work for one person vs another, and let's face it, the vast majority of riders are still dudes, so it stands to reason that the majority of information provided and how it's presented is going to be from a more "male" mindset.

I have seen both women and men where their fears were putting them into dangerous situations...sadly, statistically speaking, I've seen this happen with far more women than men. In my experience, guys (and more aggressive riders in general) are more likely to get into trouble from not admitting their fears while it's more likely to be a woman who's putting themselves into danger through timidity.

 

[tuxumino]

Man or woman, I believe the desire to ride stems from a persons temperment. People who were blessed with a timid disposition are less likely to need the extra stimulation of sailing in the wind... down the road among the cars and trucks.

dude, have you ever tried sailing in no wind? it truly sucks, especially when you run low on beer.

The desire to ride can come from many different motivations: thrills, social status (looking cool), a love of machines or maybe just a desire to beat commute traffic, you could probably think of a 1000 more reasons to start riding.
Those that continue to ride long term, however, often go beyond the original reason to take up riding and find riding speaks to something in there core being, it fulfills some need that only riding can. This is the "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand." moment, those that must ride get it, those that don't never will.

 

[Ironbutt]

IMHO- Riding is somewhat less relaxing out west but it is more fun.. I can tell you that.

Man or woman, I believe the desire to ride stems from a persons temperment. People who were blessed with a timid disposition are less likely to need the extra stimulation of sailing in the wind... down the road among the cars and trucks. Others, need that stimulation just to calm down. No one better or worse, just different.

In a recent thread, a woman voiced concerns about getting on and riding her motorcycle. She's no different than the majority of the people in our society.

In another thread, another woman wrote about her concerns of riding in urban traffic. The apparent difference in these two cases is the second woman needed her motorcycle for transportation.

In either case, both should be considered gender neutral. Men are just less likely to admit their fear. Isn't it really a persons temperment that predisposes them to either take up sports or to take up music and other more cerebral games, less physical activities?

Still, after years of being in and around the world of two wheel vehicles and the people who ride them, I believe almost anyone can take advantage of the utility of a motorcycle. Transportation or sport, riding can be done safely. Being aware of what you're doing, exactly what you're doing it on and the environmental circumstances of where you're doing it in... are all critical eleiments for safe riding. Don't let others push you beyond your point of comfort. And learn in stages. Afterall, you can run a steam locomotive or fly a jet airplane if you take the time to learn.

 

[Abyss]

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Man or woman, I believe the desire to ride stems from a persons temperment. People who were blessed with a timid disposition are less likely to need the extra stimulation of sailing in the wind... down the road among the cars and trucks. Others, need that stimulation just to calm down. No one better or worse, just different.

In a recent thread, a woman voiced concerns about getting on and riding her motorcycle. She's no different than the majority of the people in our society.

In another thread, another woman wrote about her concerns of riding in urban traffic. The apparent difference in these two cases is the second woman needed her motorcycle for transportation.

In either case, both should be considered gender neutral. Men are just less likely to admit their fear. Isn't it really a persons temperment that predisposes them to either take up sports or to take up music and other more cerebral games, less physical activities?

Still, after years of being in and around the world of two wheel vehicles and the people who ride them, I believe almost anyone can take advantage of the utility of a motorcycle. Transportation or sport, riding can be done safely. Being aware of what you're doing, exactly what you're doing it on and the environmental circumstances of where you're doing it in... are all critical eleiments for safe riding. Don't let others push you beyond your point of comfort. And learn in stages. Afterall, you can run a steam locomotive or fly a jet airplane if you take the time to learn.

For the most part, I would agree with you, and I think AJ is on point, as well.
In my experience in working with Newbies, I've found that men and women have really different things they worry about. Guys are more concerned about how they're going to go fast, and what their friends might perceive, whereas women are more afraid of getting hurt. That doesn't seem to generally occur to the men... and it really should, because they're much more likely to GET hurt, because testosterone poisoning is a bad thing on 2 wheels...

I've also found that you need to communicate differently between the 2 genders. Guys are usually good with a thumbs-up through the corners where they're nailing it... women seem to need a little more encouragement. Eventually, though, they all learn... and either fall in love with it, or walk away.

But as AJ so succinctly put it- the bike doesn't care about your "diddly bits"...

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

I'm hungry. Pass some of that over here, ya punk...

 

[Frisco Fred]

I see I'll be the thirteenth post on this this thread... okay, I'll take the chance;

*******************************************************

Nineteen year old Jane Doe in San Mateo buys a Honda 250 single to commute to CSM. Living in the avenues, twenty year old John Doe buys a Kawasaki 300 twin to commute to his job at the corner of Bush and Market. These are the people my opening post was aimed at.

Key on, touch the starter, the mild shake beneath you feels very real. Left hand pulls the clutch in, left foot leaves the ground and presses down on the shift lever... the next move, and you're in motion. I've seen the look of new adventure as the engine starts to pick up revs and the clutch begins to pull rider and bike forward. What happens from this point on usually determines whether this new adventure is the beginning of something fun or,... that's it, never again.

Helping new riders through the initiation, who are the ones who stayed with it and who are the ones who quit?

What I saw cut across both sexes. The experience itself was egalitarian. It's through those personal observations that I noted my intupetations of cause and effect. Those observations were;

Those who understood what a motorcycle really is, seemed more prepaired for what would happen as the clutch was released.

Those who really recognized the engine's power in their right hand, seemed more confident. It was as if the power was felt as their friend and not a source of intimidation.

Those who understood the terrian, whether asphalt or dirt, and their powered two wheeled connection to it, seemed more comfortable.

In every case... moving throught these stages at a pace that fit their comfort level was critical. This is where I did see a gender difference. Men were more apt to get in over their heads more often than women. Also, women seem to follow instruction better.

After a series of wize guy comments... now I'm trying to be helpful...

 

[Frisco Fred]

Connie, you must be related to Joan of Arc... you stepped in there and took the thirteenth position.

Both you an AJ are way beyond the skill level of the people I was addressing in my original post.

Racing: Truth is woman have an advantage in both size and weight distribution... men are more top heavy. Upper body strength??? I don't know, in those times I was at my best, I hardly put any pressure on the bars... kinda floated in my hands. But since you mentioned it sister... it's that testosterone that brought you air fences and chicanes... you're welcome

 

[sanjuro]

In every case... moving throught these stages at a pace that fit their comfort level was critical. This is where I did see a gender difference. Men were more apt to get in over their heads more often than women. Also, women seem to follow instruction better.

After a series of wize guy comments... now I'm trying to be helpful...

I have noticed this in coaching girls and boys in basketball.

The girls were relatively easier to coach because they would follow direction well. Boys sometimes would freelance.

But based on the amount of basketball they played on their own free time, the boys were very good in improvisation, the girls not so much.

 

[Maygoddess]

In a recent thread, a woman voiced concerns about getting on and riding her motorcycle. She's no different than the majority of the people in our society.

In another thread, another woman wrote about her concerns of riding in urban traffic. The apparent difference in these two cases is the second woman needed her motorcycle for transportation.

I don't see the above as male or female concerns..just noob concerns. I am a woman and for sure had these fears when I got my first bike over three years ago. But I also know guys first learning who had these fears. It was just about confidence building along the way. Even though I Had ridden a scooter all over Los Angeles and Northern California years before, I still was terrified to take my new motorcyle out onto public roads, freeway, etc. Did it and got over the fear.

Interesting enough, after building up three years of confidence on my bikes, doing two years of track..after a dirt bike accident 4 months ago (my only accident so far on two wheels other than some bike drops) and being knocked unconscious from it..I have barely ridden my bikes, I talk myself out of riding..fear it..I feel like a noob all over again. I KNOW that all it will take is seat time..just like when I was a noob three years ago.

As for women riders..after being in a women's riding group and helping plenty of new women riders get started, I find what happens more often is if they have a man in their life teaching them, the man may get in the way of their learning. They want them to learn but they have this "protect" mode as well. Seen too many women either give up and sell the bike or sits in garage because the man gives up on them or is too impatient or pushes them beyond their comfort level and fear kicks in. I have a few girlfriends that I have snatched away from the man and lead them on women only rides and they have blossomed and I dare say..ride better than their men!

Interesting discussion nonetheless!

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Connie, you must be related to Joan of Arc... you stepped in there and took the thirteenth position.

Both you an AJ are way beyond the skill level of the people I was addressing in my original post.

Racing: Truth is woman have an advantage in both size and weight distribution... men are more top heavy. Upper body strength??? I don't know, in those times I was at my best, I hardly put any pressure on the bars... kinda floated in my hands. But since you mentioned it sister... it's that testosterone that brought you air fences and chicanes... you're welcome

I personally am about 20+ years beyond the skill level you were addressing... however, I've been working with newbies and coaching for years now, so figured that qualified me to speak on the subject.

Testosterone on the race track is a beautiful thing, and I blame the testosterone I soak up on the grid for all the yelling I do in my helmet during a race...
But when it comes to teaching a newbie, it's purely testosterone poisoning.

And it's not just the boys paying for air fences and chicanes... some of us non-boys throw a fair amount of cash into the kitty as well!

 

[Frisco Fred]

I don't see the above as male or female concerns..just noob concerns. I am a woman and for sure had these fears when I got my first bike over three years ago. But I also know guys first learning who had these fears. It was just about confidence building along the way. Even though I Had ridden a scooter all over Los Angeles and Northern California years before, I still was terrified to take my new motorcyle out onto public roads, freeway, etc. Did it and got over the fear.

Interesting enough, after building up three years of confidence on my bikes, doing two years of track..after a dirt bike accident 4 months ago (my only accident so far on two wheels other than some bike drops) and being knocked unconscious from it..I have barely ridden my bikes, I talk myself out of riding..fear it..I feel like a noob all over again. I KNOW that all it will take is seat time..just like when I was a noob three years ago.

As for women riders..after being in a women's riding group and helping plenty of new women riders get started, I find what happens more often is if they have a man in their life teaching them, the man may get in the way of their learning. They want them to learn but they have this "protect" mode as well. Seen too many women either give up and sell the bike or sits in garage because the man gives up on them or is too impatient or pushes them beyond their comfort level and fear kicks in. I have a few girlfriends that I have snatched away from the man and lead them on women only rides and they have blossomed and I dare say..ride better than their men!

Interesting discussion nonetheless!

crashing does tend to knock the sass out of you.

Maygoddess, So you found your limits... you sound no different than all the people I know who, like you, run these bikes hard. You cross the line and learn a lesson...

I use to think that there was a fun quotient that went something like this; More fun = more danger. Doing dangerious activities is certainly stimulating, but recently I've found things that are fun and exhilarating and not dangerious. Things like getting on stage with a guitar.

Whatever you do from here on in, know that others have also experienced what you're going through.


Connie:
Air Fences... I didn't mean to imply that we paid for them, we just made it obvious that they're necessary

 

[Maygoddess]

crashing does tend to knock the sass out of you.

Why yes...feeling a little less sassy these days since the accident!

I use to think that there was a fun quotient that went something like this; More fun = more danger. Doing dangerious activities is certainly stimulating, but recently I've found things that are fun and exhilarating and not dangerious. Things like getting on stage with a guitar.

Yes. This. Have too many friends on street and track who think the faster you go, the more fun it is. I am not at that mindset. I am having a blast only going xxmph at the track or the street..where MY personal limit is..not what others think I should be doing because THEY do. I encountered that a lot when first learning. Well, and still do!

My older brother and I had a discussion when I first bought a motorcycle about risk vs fun. To him, motorcylces are more risky than fun. For me, they are more fun than risky. His chosen activity is skiing. Now for me, that is more risk than fun. Him..more fun than risky. We all have our risky vs fun activities and mindsets.

I love my motorcycles..I always have fun but always consider the risks. My risk level is not YOUR risk level and that is OK!