Ferguson Solution

[enki]

That's exactly what they did. You seriously didn't even read the article, did you? It specifically states that they had a damn switch installed so they could flip the light to red, and abused the fuck out of that ability.

Still funny?

Yeah, because I'm not buying it.

 

[mean dad]

While not condoning anything that's been happening, I think it's very easy for residents of Ferguson to not believe the findings of the report.

 

[kevin 714]

Not interested in the bigger picture, what's the problem with this case specifically?

Then you aren't interested at all

 

[mikev]

I haven't been following Ferguson at all, I'll admit.

So a civilian Grand Jury, after conducting months of interviews and reviewing evidence, decides that there's not enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution. Grand Juries are not traditional juries of course, they are there simply to decide whether or not to continue with a prosecution. They have different rules and tolerances, and tend to proceed with prosecution if evidence is ambiguous.

So, what's the problem?

Here's a little bit of a problem.

The most recent data available shows 162,000 federal cases in 2010 and only eleven resulted in the Grand Jury not indicting -- with a notable exception being police shootings.

Maybe -- just maybe -- cops tend to get off easier.

 

[mean dad]

Yeah, because I'm not buying it.

You're saying that the article is a fabrication? That the switch was NOT installed?
Or that they police did NOT use that switch to issue BS tickets (as evidenced by the times tickets were issued, the increase of traffic fine revenue, and the word of the traffic engineer that witnessed it)?
From the article: Bel-Ridge police denied the allegation, and insisted that officers only switched the light to red when children needed to cross. But the engineer found that most of the morning tickets were issued between 9 and 10:30am, when school was already in session.

Dat evidence is a bitch, ain't it?

 

[Junkie]

Or maybe police shootings are more likely to go to grand juries to appease the people even if there's no evidence.

 

[Nahullo]

I don't know that anyone has said the jury of 12 is racist, but they are saying the system is racist. So how do we solve that?

There were definitely conflicting witness statements. I don't think that is unusual in a trial. The hope is that when you compare the evidence to the testimony you can pick out the people that are lying.[/COLOR]

I'd say the Bay Area is a geo that leans toward acceptance of differing cultures. Given that perspective - this forum is a microcosm of our local society. You would need to be delusional or intellectually deficient to suggest bigotry does not exist on BARF.

Racism is a systemic practice to limit or remove the rights or opportunities of a minority group - normally based on physical characteristics. There is a fair amount of bigotry on BARF. When those bigots on BARF are in a position to use their will (in a negative / systemic way) on folks who are different then they are racist. For example - the teacher who drops the N-word on BARF and insist "those people" just can't preform academically (because they are black) and intentionally grades those minority students at a higher standard. That is a racist.

How do you solve racism? When you see bigotry, kill it (metaphorically, please). It is a plague and as long as it is tolerated, it will persist. Bigotry is the root of racism. Good luck.

 

[teg916]

Not interested in the bigger picture, what's the problem with this case specifically?

Then you aren't interested at all

So the answer is nothing.

 

[Poxy]

Here's a little bit of a problem.

The most recent data available shows 162,000 federal cases in 2010 and only eleven resulted in the Grand Jury not indicting -- with a notable exception being police shootings.

Maybe -- just maybe -- cops tend to get off easier.

Cool, thanks for that.

A few things stood out:
"As my colleague Reuben Fischer-Baum has written, we don’t have good data on officer-involved killings. But newspaper accounts suggest, grand juries frequently decline to indict law-enforcement officials."

 

[Poxy]

Then you aren't interested at all

I'm limiting my opinion to the case at hand. I'm interested in the bigger picture, just not interested in debating it here.

 

[teg916]

While not condoning anything that's been happening, I think it's very easy for residents of Ferguson to not believe the findings of the report.

Which report? Do you mean the conclusion of the grand jury?

Here's a little bit of a problem.

The most recent data available shows 162,000 federal cases in 2010 and only eleven resulted in the Grand Jury not indicting -- with a notable exception being police shootings.

Maybe -- just maybe -- cops tend to get off easier.

Perhaps it went to a jury because this case was so racially charged. That way, even though the DA did not believe there was enough evidence to file charges, people can not say there were no charges because of a biased DA. People did not believe those in charge that the shooting was justified, so the decision was given back to the people to make. 12 people.

 

[mean dad]

Which report? Do you mean the conclusion of the grand jury?



Perhaps it went to a jury because this case was so racially charged. That way, even though the DA did not believe there was enough evidence to file charges, people can not say there were no charges because of a biased DA. People did not believe those in charge that the shooting was justified, so the decision was given back to the people to make. 12 people.

Yes on both points. They may not believe that the system (which they feel has been historically oppressive) is being completely honest in its assessment of its own transgressions.
And yes, the DA punted the ball to the GJ to avoid making a hard decision that will impact his future career...imho

 

[teg916]

I'd say the Bay Area is a geo that leans toward acceptance of differing cultures. Given that perspective - this forum is a microcosm of our local society. You would need to be delusional or intellectually deficient to suggest bigotry does not exist on BARF.

Racism is a systemic practice to limit or remove the rights or opportunities of a minority group - normally based on physical characteristics. There is a fair amount of bigotry on BARF. When those bigots on BARF are in a position to use their will (in a negative / systemic way) on folks who are different then they are racist. For example - the teacher who drops the N-word on BARF and insist "those people" just can't preform academically (because they are black) and intentionally grades those minority students at a higher standard. That is a racist.

How do you solve racism? When you see bigotry, kill it (metaphorically, please). It is a plague and as long as it is tolerated, it will persist. Bigotry is the root of racism. Good luck.

You keep trying to pivot and not answer my question. I didn't ask how you solve racism.

 

[teg916]

Yes on both points. They may not believe that the system (which they feel has been historically oppressive) is being completely honest in its assessment of its own transgressions.
And yes, the DA punted the ball to the GJ to avoid making a hard decision that will impact his future career...imho

So is the system not to be trusted, or is the distrust unfounded? In either case, how do we fix it?

 

[Bay Arean]

I started this thread because I am curious what the side that is angry about the decision that there is not sufficient evidence to put Darren Wilson on trial. How would they like these cases handled, I genuinely would like to know. I didn't want the conversation buried in with a thread detailing current events, hence the new thread.

People are reacting to their feelings, which trump thoughts. They have no idea how they would like it handled, they are just responding as they have been conditioned to respond.

Most people are just intellectually lazy. They will deflect the actual circumstances, of that actual grand jury, those actual reports and documents, to a larger narrative of blacks being shot by police. Statistically, the narrative may or may not be grounded in reality. But Ferguson the place is the whipping post of the anger. Vengeance shall be theirs, and all will lose.

The only good from this case is more onboard cameras on cops persons while they execute their duties. it will take reasoned persistence, even perhaps initiative by election, or selection of new public officials to make it happen. But people get their rocks off setting shit on fire and stealing stuff. Autozone and OReilly both got looted there, so some shithead can thank Michael Brown for their new battery, carmats and deodorizers.

 

[mikev]

Cool, thanks for that.

A few things stood out:
"As my colleague Reuben Fischer-Baum has written, we don’t have good data on officer-involved killings. But newspaper accounts suggest, grand juries frequently decline to indict law-enforcement officials."

yeah, but doesn't that make you wonder WHY there isn't good data?

 

[mean dad]

So is the system not to be trusted, or is the distrust unfounded? In either case, how do we fix it?

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
My thoughts are decreased spending on bullshit military warmongering, and more on education and infrastructure, with a concerted effort to provide opportunities for "inner city youth".
We could send a lot of kids to college for the cost of one fucking bomber or new tank.

 

[Poxy]

yeah, but doesn't that make you wonder WHY there isn't good data?

Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing that there's no government agency that collates police shooting information on a national level, which seems like a huge oversight.

 

[teg916]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
My thoughts are decreased spending on bullshit military warmongering, and more on education and infrastructure, with a concerted effort to provide opportunities for "inner city youth".
We could send a lot of kids to college for the cost of one fucking bomber or new tank.

I wouldn't disagree with that. I don't know if it will fix this problem, but I agree that it is needed.

 

[Eldritch]

So what is the solution here. We had a jury decide that the evidence did not show probable cause that Darren Wilson committed a crime. That is the system we have in this nation. Since people are so angry about what happened, then what do we change it to?

The problem here is that you are mistaken over what the anger is about. The kid was a thug and got treated like a thug deserved. Shot in the street for failure to comply, as it should be. The reality is, people in Ferguson have shitty lives and are part of a shitty community with no values and no sense of decency to take pride in. Being part of such a shitty community of worthless people brings a sense of hopelessness and injustice and they are using this particular event as a vehicle to vent their frustration over how rotten their lives are. The incident itself is not particularly relevant to the riots. The solution is the entire community there needs to be subject to a serious social reeducation to teach them to take responsibility for the fact that their community is their fault, their lives are their own responsibility and no one owes them anything to make them happy, successful or respected, those are all things they must earn for themselves within the strict boundaries of the law.

While there are things can be done to make that change, our nation currently has no effective system in place to generate that effect and has many systems that actively undermine it.