• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

First-Time Rider on a Yamaha R1 - The Power of Preparation and Dedication

I think the OP is sincere is in his attempt to show what can be done. But, when it comes to others unknowingly participating in an unproven experiment, that's wrong, reckless, ego-centric and should not be tolerated by the moto-racing community. At all.

The OP put the checks in the AFM boxes, so that portion was covered. The situation is abnormal enough that I think that it may have been a good idea to think outside the box and share this with the other riders that were (going to be) on track with him. I know that I would have liked to know. Yes, I understand that you don't know the skill set of the other riders on any given race weekend or trackday, but this situation is different. Arguably very different.
 
As long as we're sharing stories of earliest crashes .. I've seen 1 guy low side on the way to tech ( cold tires ). :laughing

He was pitted near me and IIRC kept it upright for the rest of the day.
 
As long as we're sharing stories of earliest crashes .. I've seen 1 guy low side on the way to tech ( cold tires ). :laughing

He was pitted near me and IIRC kept it upright for the rest of the day.

reminds me of the guy who died riding in the pits. He was riding sans helmet, grabbed a fistful of throttle and the bike landed on his head. I don't remember all the details, but there were threads on this awhile back.
 
reminds me of the guy who died riding in the pits. He was riding sans helmet, grabbed a fistful of throttle and the bike landed on his head. I don't remember all the details, but there were threads on this awhile back.

2007, a track day at BW. The footpeg punctured his skull.
 
You don't know that at all and neither do the instructors. NRS weeds out gross incompetence, but it doesn't catch everything.

Right. But neither would it catch an experienced rider who during the race turns out to be (for example) a hotheaded idiot and a danger to himself and others. Plenty of crashes happen with "experienced" first-time racers, yet nobody would complain about AFM's "negligence" in those cases.
 
Right. But neither would it catch an experienced rider who during the race turns out to be (for example) a hotheaded idiot and a danger to himself and others. Plenty of crashes happen with "experienced" first-time racers, yet nobody would complain about AFM's "negligence" in those cases.

Yes, I've been making the same point.

Playing the odds, a guy who has never ridden a motorcycle before is more likely to have issues and less spare attention than someone who is familiar with the vehicle. Playing the odds isn't part of the NRS procedure, however.

The accounts of this rider blowing turn 11 every lap don't paint a picture of a rider in complete control. If he was by himself for most of the race as his lap times suggest, maybe it wasn't a big deal. If he's doing that around other riders, it might be grounds to be meatballed.
 
Except he didn't hide is true experience level from safety officials. After he was evaluated on the track, he told the instructor about his level of experience. As confirmed by people who witnessed the whole thing.

There is no way to study being part of an actual pack of racers, other than actually being part of an actual pack of racers. Every racer has to have his first race, and here he was no different than any other first-time racer.

Can we stop pretending like racing is this amazing esoteric skill that you can acquire only after many years of monk-like preparation? I raced at the end of my first-ever track day, as part of the on-track day of instruction, took it easy, and neither crashed nor took anyone out (and I didn't win, either). Everyone is a beginner at some point, and Racer V was no different than any other rider who does a couple track days and then gives racing a try. We're not talking MotoGP here.

I made a point of not telling anyone that I was a new rider. I was confident in my ability to keep myself and others safe, but I knew that if the trackday providers found out that someone showed up at the track with an R1 looking to go fast, and this person had never ridden a bike before... Well, I think they wouldn't have let me out on track.

We can have a different discussion about how much street and actual operation experience a rider should have, and if none is acceptable to race.

But he said he told no one, which I assumed meant track officials.. That wasn't true, which is one of the main points of contention here.
 
Basically, AFM got the wool pulled over on em. Can't really blame them too much on that point.
 
Last edited:
We can have a different discussion about how much street and actual operation experience a rider should have, and if none is acceptable to race.

But he said he told no one, which I assumed meant track officials.. That wasn't true, which is one of the main points of contention here.

What I think happened is that he didn't tell anyone until after he had been out on track and someone had a chance to see him ride. After that, he did tell the instructor for some reason.
 
What I think happened is that he didn't tell anyone until after he had been out on track and someone had a chance to see him ride. After that, he did tell the instructor for some reason.

Exactly. My guess is he was "questioned" and pretty much had to come clean.
 
I'm with EjGlows on this one.

Let's lay out some basics first though:

There's a certain level of inherent risk associated with motorcycle racing. There are certain things that we do to make sure that the risk is managed appropriately - including corner workers (I love those guys!), good gear, and proper maintenance of our motorcycles. Those are the external factors we use to mitigate the risk of crashing or being involved in an accident. AFM has established that those things are worthwhile, and should be enforced accordingly. (They provide corner workers, have gear and bike tech to appropriately enforce the rules, etc).

The OP probably took care of those things just fine.

The other thing is harder to measure, but the AFM still attempts to measure it to some degree - rider actions are reviewed for taking people out, there was (dunno if it's still there?) a crash rule, etc. NRS is part of that process, the assessment of risk that an individual has when it comes to racing.

Here's the thing though, there's absolutely zero reason to go out there and do something like this unless you have something major to prove. His improvement is good, that's for sure, but honestly, the entire approach reeks of arrogance and ego. The entire thing is stupid across the board, because it's already the middle of the season, so it's not like he's gonna fight for a championship, and he could have just as easily attended a few trackdays, and then done the October rounds of AFM and probably actually achieved his goals.

I made a point of not telling anyone that I was a new rider. I was confident in my ability to keep myself and others safe, but I knew that if the trackday providers found out that someone showed up at the track with an R1 looking to go fast, and this person had never ridden a bike before... Well, I think they wouldn't have let me out on track.

Safety first. Always. If I'm ever presented with an opportunity for going fast vs. riding safe, I will always opt for safety. Always.

These two quotes exist in complete opposition to each other. A reasonable modicum of safety would have been doing at least a full track weekend BEFORE going racing. I mean, functionally, none of his goals were achieved, he didn't make it into the novice class - this entire thing is just a testament to the ego of one man, willing to put his desires and goals over everyone else, failing aggressively, and doing so while causing a fuckload of risk.

The other major problem is that the obvious "safety" option isn't always obvious on a motorcycle - you think you're being safer by giving that guy who just passed you a bit more space, running a touch wide and you get collected by the guy behind you who was expecting you to hold your line. If he has previous car experience, how does he handle the loss of his mirrors? We have had plenty of threads over the years on BARF where car guys insist it's insanely unsafe to ride on the track without mirrors because they're used to that, but it's not appropriate or needed on a bike. I love the NRS guys and training, but having been through it, it's not like there's a single instructor following around a rider, and at this level of experience, that's the expectation I would have for a proper evaluation of the rider.

We all accept risk when we swing our leg over the bike, street, track, race. I hope that this situation will cause the AFM to be a bit more diligent about how they vet riders as a result of this sort of thing, before someone gets hurt the first time he's in a Novice race and gets strafed by lapping traffic and does something "safe" that isn't actually safe.

I also think the OP is ultimately failing to understand some basic things about life that lead him to this point: As Enchanter has pointed out to me in the past, not everyone is capable of doing everything. Denying that gets people injured and killed. The way people get to do things and live long, successful lives doing risky things is by not pitching themselves into high risk situations over and over, but by appropriate managing and moderating that risk. If it were just him, go hog wild, but in this case, the OP isn't the only person who might have ended up injured or paralyzed in the process, and his self ascribed goal is to "show people how the power of determination and hard work can help you succeed". Except that he's just teaching shitty lessons and failing.

If you want to teach people something meaningful, teach them how to be successful, not how to flail into a risky situation with minimal preparation and get out of it thanks to some inherent kinematic intelligence that the next person may not have.

Ultimately, he set himself up for failure and failed, the entire story is a non-starter unless you move the goalposts after the fact. Unreasonable goals, highly risky, lack of reasonable preparation, and he failed, and then a pile of self piteous wailing about how bad he was. The best thing to come out of it was that he didn't get someone, including himself, hurt in the process.

Seriously, OP, might be time to grow up a bit.
 
Last edited:
Armchair motorcyclists.

He did the steps, passed the test, then raced the slow race.

Complain about his "sales pitch" or the timing on telling the instructors his "true skill" but stop harping on him "racing."

He didnt bin it on the opening lap like some of the "experienced" ones. He rode within his limits.
He didnt get in a crazy hot headed passing battle. He finished 9th in the slow race.
He didnt race with zero experience. He learned at a track day and followed the advice of "taking it to the track"
---------------------
The amount of hate that seeped out of the first three pages was a bit much. After racer v explained further and holeshot showed up the tune has changed a bit but seriously, armchair motorcyclists.
 
Armchair motorcyclists.

He did the steps, passed the test, then raced the slow race.

Complain about his "sales pitch" or the timing on telling the instructors his "true skill" but stop harping on him "racing."

He didnt bin it on the opening lap like some of the "experienced" ones. He rode within his limits.
He didnt get in a crazy hot headed passing battle. He finished 9th in the slow race.
He didnt race with zero experience. He learned at a track day and followed the advice of "taking it to the track"
---------------------
The amount of hate that seeped out of the first three pages was a bit much. After racer v explained further and holeshot showed up the tune has changed a bit but seriously, armchair motorcyclists.

The point here is the appropriate steps make certain assumptions that break down when a guy who has a decent knack for riding a motorcycle does something really stupid and high risk. Essentially, NRS as a gatekeeper exists on the assumption that people will spend a reasonable amount of time preparing for it in advance. I think my NRS booklet actually recommended at least 1 year of track experience before taking the NRS, but it's been years and it's stashed away somewhere.

And part of the reason I'm not racing anymore is honestly stuff like this - I'm all for accepting reasonable risk on a motorcycle, but this sort of thing gets a little excessive - the relationship between the business of a race club and the safety of it's members is a difficult one and I haven't seen much that puts me at ease with regards to getting back out there and having someone hold people accountable for their idiocy on track.
 
Last edited:
The point here is the appropriate steps make certain assumptions that break down when a guy who has a decent knack for riding a motorcycle does something really stupid and high risk.

I'm not following this. Are you talking about one of the experienced guys who took out Berto? You could be.

BTW, I kinda see this your way too. I go back and forth a bit.
 
Back
Top