Friggin Tractor Beams

[Asphaultnaut]

Really? Is that why several scientists died of radiation exposure at Los Alamos and during the Manhattan Project? If the rules were so well known......

a lab accident invalidates physics theory? I didn't know that.

plus there's a whole difference of scientific disciplines between physics and biology.

 

[CoorsLight]

the sad truth is, physics is pretty meticulous and boring in it's details. Hard science is like that.

...at the high school and undergraduate level.

plus there's a whole difference of scientific disciplines between physics and biology.

huh?

 

[asthmodeus]

Really? Is that why several scientists died of radiation exposure at Los Alamos and during the Manhattan Project? If the rules were so well known......

not to mention the upwards of 100K deaths from chronic exposure at oak ridge...dudes were loading the graphite reactor with hot uranium there in the late thirties wearing essentially just raincoats for ppe..

*oops- read up on some ornl stuff i haven't thought about for years...make that early forties.

 

[Britny]

Yeah... In the forties. When everyone also smoked every day and built with asbestos. You don't think science and method has advanced since then? That's the cool part about scientific research, we get better at that stuff

 

[afm199]

a lab accident invalidates physics theory? I didn't know that.

plus there's a whole difference of scientific disciplines between physics and biology.

Not lab accidents. So the "discipline" is totally wrong for the workers but fine for the rest of humanity.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

Not lab accidents. So the "discipline" is totally wrong for the workers but fine for the rest of humanity.

you're deliberately confusing physics with administration.

Nuclear physics accurately predicts radiation intensities. Government, cost cutters, politicians and social reasons deliberately put people in harm's way. that's not science, it's greed and stupidity.

Unless you believe that somehow people's beliefs and decisions affect the underlying operation of the Universe, and if that's the case, you might as well come out of the closet as one of those I.D. supporters, and that Einstein's Special relativity theory doesn't hold water because some people cannot add.

 

[afm199]

you're deliberately confusing physics with administration.

Nuclear physics accurately predicts radiation intensities. Government, cost cutters, politicians and social reasons deliberately put people in harm's way. that's not science, it's greed and stupidity.

Unless you believe that somehow people's beliefs and decisions affect the underlying operation of the Universe, and if that's the case, you might as well come out of the closet as one of those I.D. supporters, and that Einstein's Special relativity theory doesn't hold water because some people cannot add.

You're just digging the hole deeper.

 

[CoorsLight]

Yeah... In the forties. When everyone also smoked every day and built with asbestos. You don't think science and method has advanced since then? That's the cool part about scientific research, we get better at that stuff

You somewhat have a point, but since the 40s, we've advanced safety in scientific research to a slightly lesser degree than, let's say, safety in the production of sausage. But if you like sausage or scientific research, then never watch either one being made.

Since the 40s, there has been a much bigger change in what the layman *thinks* happens in the lab versus what actually happens there.

I blame Star Trek.

 

[Cycle61]

Since the 40s, there has been a much bigger change in what the layman *thinks* happens in the lab versus what actually happens there.

I blame Star Trek.

 

[afm199]

Yeah... In the forties. When everyone also smoked every day and built with asbestos. You don't think science and method has advanced since then? That's the cool part about scientific research, we get better at that stuff

Kid, you know how much outgas there is in the manufactured modular units used as offices and homes? How many un needed medications are prescribed daily to adults and kids? How many adulterants and modifiers there are in almost any food that is canned? How many antibiotics have been used in farm animal production and the impact on antibiotic resistant bacteria and their increase? How much the Gulf of Mexico has been degraded by fertilizer runoff? There's a fucking endless list of the "benefits of science", and if you think it's all great, you need to take another look.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

Kid, you know how much outgas there is in the manufactured modular units used as offices and homes? How many un needed medications are prescribed daily to adults and kids? How many adulterants and modifiers there are in almost any food that is canned? How many antibiotics have been used in farm animal production and the impact on antibiotic resistant bacteria and their increase? How much the Gulf of Mexico has been degraded by fertilizer runoff? There's a fucking endless list of the "benefits of science", and if you think it's all great, you need to take another look.

exactly what does this have to do with the science of physics, it's application towards nuclear devices and prediction of doomsday's *not* happening? or physics predicting absolute limits to certain constants regardless of hope and sci-fi writings?

Jack, that's what. You made claims, got backed into a corner, are throwing everything into the kitchen sink in order to smokescreen. You're using bad judgement, politics, greed, and the whole host of (biblical) seven deadly sins to judge Capital S Science and then somehow spin that back to deny the results of the "hard" sciences and proofs of high energy and nuclear physics.

When did you decide to try to get reelected for President?

 

[afm199]

exactly what does this have to do with the science of physics, it's application towards nuclear devices and prediction of doomsday's *not* happening? or physics predicting absolute limits to certain constants regardless of hope and sci-fi writings?

Jack, that's what. You made claims, got backed into a corner, are throwing everything into the kitchen sink in order to smokescreen. You're using bad judgement, politics, greed, and the whole host of (biblical) seven deadly sins to judge Capital S Science and then somehow spin that back to deny the results of the "hard" sciences and proofs of high energy and nuclear physics.

When did you decide to try to get reelected for President?

Wot? . Britny made a statement about how science has "improved" because we don't build houses out of asbestos and smoke less. I responded. Do you read these posts?

You'll have to post up what "proofs" I denied succinctly before I respond to that.

 

[Joebar4000]

Clif's Notes:

Britny says we'll figure out warp speed, matter transporters, fusion, because 100 years ago we didn't have iPhones and now we do.

Ernie says, big fucking difference between a shiny babbage machine, and bypassing the limits of the known universe.

Capice?

 

[Asphaultnaut]

Clif's Notes:

Britny says we'll figure out warp speed, matter transporters, fusion, because 100 years ago we didn't have iPhones and now we do.

Ernie says, big fucking difference between a shiny babbage machine, and bypassing the limits of the known universe.

Capice?

so he replies to me but claims he's responding to someone else, when he was implying that scientists a) really didn't know what would happen with the detonation of the atomic bomb and b) radiation accidents prove that physics is wrong because they happened?

 

[afm199]

so he replies to me but claims he's responding to someone else, when he was implying that scientists a) really didn't know what would happen with the detonation of the atomic bomb and b) radiation accidents prove that physics is wrong because they happened?

We can go back and forth forever. I'm hardly a Luddite, there's tremendous positive accomplishment that science has brought about. I'm simply not a believer in "Science" any more than I am in "Christianity", "Judaism", or "The big Spaghetti monster."

"Pure Science" has certainly made many huge discoveries. Sadly the application thereof has not kept up. I'd simply argue that science today is perfectly capable of discovering the means to the destruction of humanity, sadly not the morality to prevent it. The biggest strength of science, willingness to investigate anything, is the biggest weakness. Some things should probably be left alone.

 

[Britny]

Kid, you know how much outgas there is in the manufactured modular units used as offices and homes? How many un needed medications are prescribed daily to adults and kids? How many adulterants and modifiers there are in almost any food that is canned? How many antibiotics have been used in farm animal production and the impact on antibiotic resistant bacteria and their increase? How much the Gulf of Mexico has been degraded by fertilizer runoff? There's a fucking endless list of the "benefits of science", and if you think it's all great, you need to take another look.

Where would modern medicine be without antibiotics and other medications? Not every weapon is wielded wisely, but that is no fault of the weapon.
I don't believe I said anywhere that every scientific development has been beneficial. I also recognize that not every development is an advancement
I just think it's ignorant to say that anything is impossible, when (in the larger scheme of things) we actually know very little about our universe. Modern science has come so far in so little time, I find it difficult to predict what we'll be capable of in another few centuries.

 

[kevin 714]

Kid, you know how much outgas there is in the manufactured modular units used as offices and homes? How many un needed medications are prescribed daily to adults and kids? How many adulterants and modifiers there are in almost any food that is canned? How many antibiotics have been used in farm animal production and the impact on antibiotic resistant bacteria and their increase? How much the Gulf of Mexico has been degraded by fertilizer runoff? There's a fucking endless list of the "benefits of science", and if you think it's all great, you need to take another look.

ernie I agree with you, but i think what you are saying is a different conversation.

science doesnt say ANYTHING other than what its results are.

the implimentation of science, especially for profit, is a whole different conversation. but I weill agree, in many aspects modern "science" really hasnt made life much better, if at all. just different, iphones, etc, these things just entertain you. modern medicine is a titanic example to the contrary though, modern western medicine, specifically antiobiotics and vaccines, are among the greatest and most profound discoveries in the history of man.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

ernie I agree with you, but i think what you are saying is a different conversation.

science doesnt say ANYTHING other than what its results are.

the implimentation of science, especially for profit, is a whole different conversation. but I weill agree, in many aspects modern "science" really hasnt made life much better, if at all. just different, iphones, etc, these things just entertain you. modern medicine is a titanic example to the contrary though, modern western medicine, specifically antiobiotics and vaccines, are among the greatest and most profound discoveries in the history of man.

this!

 

[afm199]

ernie I agree with you, but i think what you are saying is a different conversation.

science doesnt say ANYTHING other than what its results are.

the implimentation of science, especially for profit, is a whole different conversation. but I weill agree, in many aspects modern "science" really hasnt made life much better, if at all. just different, iphones, etc, these things just entertain you. modern medicine is a titanic example to the contrary though, modern western medicine, specifically antiobiotics and vaccines, are among the greatest and most profound discoveries in the history of man.

O I understand what science means. Verifiable results. My point is that some areas are better left alone. My parents grew up before antibiotics. Mom lost all her teeth and almost her life to Scarlet Fever, which no one has heard of today. My dad lost two of his four siblings. And today flesh eating bacteria and TB that can not be cured are the results of antibiotics. Still a good tradeoff but losing its appeal. And the dark side of antibiotics and vaccines is that humanity lost an entire vector that kept the population stable. Remember, when you look at a population graph, it's flat line from ancient pre-history to about 1850, when it becomes a radical J curve. The population of the earth went from a stable 40-300 million to 7 billion in the blink of an eye. (I understand that antibiotics are later than that, the population curve is pretty much the oil production curve, but it really took off in 1950 or so.)

When I was born there were around 2 billion people. In my lifetime! LA was a city not a sprawl, and there were forty miles of desert to San Bernardino, not a built up urban area. Today the urban planners want to go vertical to use less space. It's not a pretty world. Stick your head out the door and look at traffic. Tons of carbon into the atmosphere daily. Rare commodities being used to build consumer toys and forever gone. Water pollution from agriculture expanded to feed not only the US but the rest of the world.

Am I blaming science? In a real sense, yes. Research without forethought and ethics is just as dangerous as shooting a gun in a crowded room.

 

[CoorsLight]

science doesnt say ANYTHING other than what its results are.

Please define "science" as you used it in this sentence.

I ask because reporting results constitutes a tiny fraction of what a scientist does. Moreover, if you were to read some scientific articles or grant proposals, you'd find that results make up a small proportion of those as well. There is much more emphasis on putting results or interpretation of results in context with the work of other researchers, and then "selling" the significance of the results in a present study, or, more disturbingly, selling the significance of expected results in a proposed study.

The modern scientific publishing and funding paradigm has produced a disingenuous approach to research. In fact, a recent article in PNAS estimated that, IIRC, 40-60% of peer-reviewed work is either erroneous or fabricated.

Science should be treated with skepticism. Not because the scientific process is fundamentally flawed, but because humans are.