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getting started - 125 SMOKER?

tonedeaf

tonedeaf

have tires will ride
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Location
Concord, CA
Moto(s)
'09 ZX6R, kdx200, '05 SV1000s
Name
Jack
hey everyone, I am at a crossroads in my sportbike riding.

I rode bmx's as a little kid and loved laying darkies on the road and jumping off of stuff. Then I stopped when I became a musician in 5th grade. I finally started riding motorcycles last October (ninja 250 and my dad's Suzuki DR650) at age 22, after years of obsessing over motogp and WSB. I rode the 250 until March, took it to Laguna Seca, and had such a damn good time I had to buy a ZX-6R. I sold the 250, and ride the ZX-6R EVERYWHERE. I took it to Thunderhill a few weeks ago, and had the best day of my life:

HT4U2571.jpg


I am a cautious person (as you can see in the picture....i did NOT try to lose the chicken strips on my first track day with a 600), but I'm also an adrenaline junkie and I have a tendency to get comfortable quickly. So NOW I find myself in a dangerous situation. I'm getting fast (relatively, people, no manhood-measuring please) on a 2009 ZX-6R and I've been riding less than one year, and I want to get better. Even though I'm racking up easily 100 miles a day, and feel real comfy and all that, I've only been riding 8 months and I'm riding an expensive bike that's a fuckin' nuclear rocket ship with more power than what the best riders in the world were using just a few years ago. I want to get better at riding motorcycles, but I want to get physically familiar with certain bike dynamics that i am sure as hell NOT starting to learn at 80mph on a $7,000 death machine. I NEED A DIRT BIKE!

Here's what I want out of a dirt bike, and I'm hoping you all can help me pick the right bike: I want to be able to ride around MX courses and trails like Carnegie and have a great time, but I am not interested in 30ft jumps. I want to take it out to a flat oval (maybe with a slick rear tire) and learn throttle control sliding the rear end, and I want to learn to wheelie. I want something that can take that kind of abuse from me for years, but is as cheap as possible.

I think about the top road riders, and the fact that they spent their entire childhood riding the piss out of tiny dirt bikes, and I think, well, maybe I should give myself that childhood now---how about a 125 2-stroke? any and all advice is appreciated.
 
i got a yz125 as my first bike after not riding for 15 ish years. I only had a 50 when i was a kid. now i have 6 dirt bikes...but have kept the 125.

mine has been awesome. not the best trail bike. but a great bike for learning and having fun.

if you can swing it the modern aluminum yz125 is the ticket.
 
125's are great. Cheap to own and maintain, they teach you to carry corner speed, they are so light too. My last 125 was a 03 Honda CR125 and it had a great chassis, but slow motor. Go for a 05+ YZ125, RM 125 or KTM 125SX. (A 144 or 150 is even better)
 
i would love a newer 125. but i don't think i have the cash...are there any significant problems I could run into with a pre-2000's dirt bike? I'm looking at craigslist, and am liking the idea of paying $1000 for a 1995 kx125.
 
You want a dirt bike to learn street dynamics?

I ride both street and dirt, but other than the basic functions and operation, i think riding each are compeltely diffrent. I apply very little if any skills from my dirt operation to the street.

If your worried about risk of injury, you might ask around. Most of the people i know who ride both have always been injured more on a dirt bike.

I am now on my 4th sport bike, nearly 100k miles and plenty of track days (mid B group)and i havent scratched any of them and as for injuries none other than a sore toe after setting the kick stand down on it.

BUT!, dirt biking i race junior MX and intermediate off road and speed is relative and buzzing through the trees at 20 MPH is much faster to me than track speeds on a sport bike.

Street bike injuries; none.

Dirt bike injuries; compound fracture left tib, fib (two surgeries), broken and seperated collar bone (two surgeries), broken toes, fingers, broken knee cap, three knee surgeries, cracked rib, compression fracture L1, etc,.

With all the injuries, i still prefer and think dirt bikes are faster and more dangerous.

Oh one more point, 7k is not that bad, I just spent more than that on my new dirt bike and it has zero warranty unlike the street bikes.
 
all good points ben-zx-14, and i agree that aggressive dirt riding is easily as dangerous as aggressive sportbike riding......but i think learning to wheelie on a $1000 dirt bike is much smarter than learning to wheelie on a new ZX-6R. plus, I'm not juuuust doing it to "street train", I also think I'm going to love dirt riding.
 
if you want to learn stunting get a crf50. seriously.


do not buy a dirt bike that is more than 5 years old. i have never owned a new bike, but i can tell you when I have tried to get an older bike I have always ended up putting too much money into them, yes even the 1998 cr125 I bought for $700 running turned out to be almost a $1500 bike by the time I got it working good.

for ~ $1500 you can get a nice used 125.
 
scottiedawg66 said:
if you want to learn stunting get a crf50. seriously.


do not buy a dirt bike that is more than 5 years old. i have never owned a new bike, but i can tell you when I have tried to get an older bike I have always ended up putting too much money into them, yes even the 1998 cr125 I bought for $700 running turned out to be almost a $1500 bike by the time I got it working good.

for ~ $1500 you can get a nice used 125.
Click to expand...

:thumbup I think this is true for cars/streetbikes/dirtbikes.. except maybe for cars and streetbikes its more like 8-10 years. You always seem to end up better off in the end paying a little more up front.
 
I got it, you want to stunt. I did learn to wheelie on my dirt bike first, but that was a four stroke and not a 2-smoker so i think the transition was much more similar. If you want to stunt your better off buying a beater F4I that has been stunted to death. Probably cheaper than a decent dirt bike.

I completely understand the intrest in dirt biking, but dont expect to transfer to much of the skills to the street. Dirt riding is dirt riding.

As for used bikes, if your buying a 1000 bike your getting a 1000 bike and it will probably have 1000 worth of issues. I bought my 250R knowing it needed a ton of work, but it was a friend so i paid more that normal. 1800 cash and now over and extra 1000 into the motor, tires, etc, etc.



theharlequin said:
all good points ben-zx-14, and i agree that aggressive dirt riding is easily as dangerous as aggressive sportbike riding......but i think learning to wheelie on a $1000 dirt bike is much smarter than learning to wheelie on a new ZX-6R. plus, I'm not juuuust doing it to "street train", I also think I'm going to love dirt riding.
Click to expand...
 
I'd go with a 250, 125's make lousy trailbikes unless you're an experienced rider. If you want to wheelie and practice slides...a 250 will be easier to do so...and the top ends will last longer too. I'd look for something newer than 2000. Can't go wrong with yamaha or kawasaki in those years.
I also think riding dirt does help alot with developing skills related to streetbiking. Sure pavement is different than dirt, but the controls, balance and mental focus are the same. Every dirt guy I know who transitioned to street/track bikes (including myself) picked it up much faster than the average street rider and many of the fastest roadracers in the world practice on dirt bikes....must be something to it.
 
kxmike said:
I'd go with a 250, 125's make lousy trailbikes unless you're an experienced rider. If you want to wheelie and practice slides...a 250 will be easier to do so...and the top ends will last longer too. I'd look for something newer than 2000. Can't go wrong with yamaha or kawasaki in those years.
I also think riding dirt does help alot with developing skills related to streetbiking. Sure pavement is different than dirt, but the controls, balance and mental focus are the same. Every dirt guy I know who transitioned to street/track bikes (including myself) picked it up much faster than the average street rider and many of the fastest roadracers in the world practice on dirt bikes....must be something to it.
Click to expand...

Even though I am not experienced enough to know this is empirically true, I completely believe that it's true. I studied trumpet my whole life and switching back and forth between different kinds of trumpets was so key to making breakthroughs in playing. Some horns feel slippery between notes, and it's easier to scoop and bend notes but harder to hit them smack in the middle, and other trumpets are super tight and constricting and only hit exactly on the notes but if you miss in between it's almost unrecoverable and a nasty sound comes out......sound similar to something else?? So you switch between them constantly, and learn to bridge the gap and make a tight trumpet play loose or a loose one play classical music, and then realize that it's you, not the trumpets, and then see guys who can pick up ANY crappy trumpet and sound like the voice of zeus.......and motorcycles and every sport in the world is exactly the same, right?

YAAHA my dad is letting me borrow his 2001 DR650 to go over to Carnegie and explore it tomorrow morning. Hell yeah!! I went there on my dh mountain bike yesterday just to explore and only made it around the bottom area, never went into the hills. It was so windy...going east was amazing, the wind was at my back, pedaling in top gear and getting air off everything I touched, and I could take it into the DESERTED 100cc mx track....but I turned around and couldn't even pedal through the wind, had to push the damn thing 500 yards back to my truck. BALLS. :laughing Now I'm gonna have an engine there tomorrow :teeth

anyone else gonna be over there?
 
got back from riding there all day today. HOOOOLY asgjlghaSDLJGHASDG YES.... !!! I have never ridden with an engine off of pavement in my life. It was a 360 lb DR650 with street tires.....ended up being beastly good, surprisingly. I took the first turn after the rangers station onto the flat fire road goin "ok, let's tiptoe this cow around and explore the place", took it around and just smoothly let it out into 2nd coming up and out of the corner, and as soon as i started letting the clutch out it went into this big lazy drift. :teeth:teeth:teeth what a blast. the DR ended up being able to eat up fire trails like no tomorrow. it was so perfect at, like, a 20-30 mph, smooth 5-foot wide trail and you're drifting ALL over the place. I took it some super steep climbs feathering 1st and it rocked it, as long as I was SUPER careful about where I wanted to stop and turn around, because it's a freaking cow and I didn't want to drop my dad's bike. Going faster was extremely limited by traction, though. The momentum that fatass bike carries into a corner, with those not-knobby tires, it's like riding on marbles sometimes. But it was an awesome exercise in balance, and INSANELY fun at chill, low speeds after getting used to babying it over extreme stuff I didn't want to push, but letting it out on nice clear sections.

I also took it into the flat oval they have, its tiny and hard and covered in baseball-size rocks. It was feckin' sweet too, though. I just zoned in on taking figure eights around the cones marking it, and it was SO easy to drift around. At like 15 miles an hour, I was able to feel so many different things that I'd never gotten familiar with only riding a 600, where I'm just banking on being smooth and staying stuck to the pavement the entire time. Going into the turns I got into a rhythm of dropping the bike from 2nd to first as it's tipping in, and letting the clutch out immediately pops the rear tire loose. I got to feel the left fingers controlling the rear wheel, and sitting in the right balance to keep the bike propped in a smooth arc. trying to smoothly let it come to the apex and hand it off to opening throttle. The feeling of coming around a corner, and then just pointing the nose into the corner and gassing it to drift wide and come out pointing ahead is one of the best feelings in the world.

The crazy part to me was doing all that (for like 5 hours straight), and then riding out the gate without getting off and jumping right back on a 60mph, twisty empty highway and going home on tarmac! It felt so damn good. If I was in the military, and had to race hundreds of miles across the uncharted desert to deliver something, I'd pick that bike in a heartbeat. you know, I thought I would want a 125 2 stroke before I ever tried riding out in the dirt, and of course....riding out there allowed me to actually think of what I physically wanted to get out of it, and I do NOT think a 125 is the ticket anymore. Honestly I would miss the torque too much. that trip today really made me think about a lot of different motorcycle futures, and I may not be in such a buying bonanza as I was a few days ago. Not sure what bike it would be, and I'm getting into much more expensive futures than a pit bike. Still, I'm pretty sure now that I'm eventually going to get something street legal that I can.....I hate saying this because 1) the d-bag connotations, and 2) bluescruiser (my dad) is for sure going to read this....be a freaking hooligan on. I'm not talking about being a menace, I mean I want something to

1) jump speed bumps laughing instead of babying it over them
2) learn to wheelie without worrying (as much) about hurting the bike or myself
3) tear up tight twisties on street (what the hell…alliteration?)
4) be able to leave the pavement and hit trails, maybe be legit with knobbies
7) is virtually bulletproof and inexpensive to keep in working condition (screw aesthetics)

Typing this I'm thinking, "am I describing a sumo?" If I had a ton of money, would I be looking at a ktm 450exc? :drool
 
Sounds like you had a blast, just wait until you get to ride something a little more racie.

I was going to get a 530EXC enstead of my 450X, but as much fun as those bikes are i would be in jail in no time doing all the wheelies on the street. So i stuck to an off road bike. I saw a 530 EXC for 9500ish OTD.

I love to do both so much i prefer the better of each world versus a do it all bike which is not the better of both.

You should ride my 450X, you wont be able to get ride of the smile.
 
A Husqvarna would be unreal...

Yeah, there's definitely no way around the fact that a bike can either be really good at one thing and not the other, or only mediocre at both. So I have to think about what compromises I'm willing to make for an actual bike, not a fantasy money-is-no-object bike. I think the main things I care about are

-lightweight
-highly crash-resistant
-inexpensive
-street-legal but able to handle dirt ok

So with that, a lot of questions come to mind.

What kind of power do I want from it? I'd like to find a balance between enough power to handle street duty, but as light a bike as possible. I know that the heaviness/power of the DR650 is necessary for long highway trips, but I'm not interested in that. I'd like something just powerful enough to handle cruising for a while at 60-70 on pavement without damaging itself, but lightweight enough for fun dirt shenanigans. Is this probably something in the 400-450cc range? maybe with sprocket mods?

Also have to decide how street- or dirt-oriented I'd like....A wealthier me would have two sets of wheels for dirt or supermoto, but I am NOT rich, and I'm envisioning just running dual sport tires. Those would do both ok right? little more slippery in the dirt, but manageable, and not as grippy on pavement, but still lots of fun if I learn to feel when they're about to slide. Sound about right to all you experienced ones?

And making it bulletproof....I'm guessing that a really crash-resistant bike is neither cheap nor lightweight, right? or are dirt bikes really tough to begin with? Without experience in the matter, I'm guessing that a dirtbike with metal handlebar/lever guards and some sort of body/engine crash cage would be pretty invincible, except for extreme crashes (tumbling, colliding with trees, etc).....what do you say?
 
dirt bikes are tough. get some bark busters and a pipe guard (if you get a smoke doggy)and you are good.

you want a supermoto bike from the sounds of things, but I am biased. An enduro would meet your dirt needs better though.

for SM its all about the 625smc, drz 400 SM, or husky 610.

I like the plated KTMs or a DRZ E are good choices for enduro.
 
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