Help! - '93 Yahama Virago Starting problem

[Maze]

I am very new with bikes, so please bear with me if this is long.

Background:

I have a '93 Yamaha Virago XV 535 that I bought a week ago. Last night I drove from Berkeley to San Jose to pick up some gear I bought from a Craigslist ad. It's my first long trip on a bike.

Problem:

It worked perfectly fine when I was going to San Jose, but refused to start when I tried to start it while coming back. After repeated attempts, me and the other guy managed to start it using push-start method. I stayed at my friend's place last night in Sunnyvale, but this morning the bike refuses to start again (even with choke). All our push-start attempts haven't worked so far. I am sitting here waiting for my friend to come back in the evening so that we can try again to push-start the bike in the evening.

Questions:

I am very new to bikes, and can't tell whether it is battery problem or some problem with the starter. I took the seats off and tried disconnecting each connection one by one and try to start the bike. That didn't work. Am I doomed to be stuck here until some mechanic comes here? What do I do to prevent this problem in future? Do I need to get battery replaced or some valves cleaned up or something?

I tried finding tips online, but can't seem to find anything useful so far.

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[windex]

Sounds like it's still turning over.

Is the gas on?

Is the kill switch turned to run?

 

[Maze]

Yes, the gas is on, and all the switches are properly turned on.

 

[Deeter]

If it's cranking over but still not starting, you may want to pull the plugs to see if they're dirty/fouled. If both are gunked up, you won't get it to start. Just a thought, from a non-mechanic . . .

 

[Ezekiel]

Sometimes when a battery is low, it still cranks over, just not fast enough to start it...maybe get a jump and see if that does the trick for you?

It could be a LOT of things, from poor venting, poor gas, gas not getting to the carbs or flooding the carbs, or maybe electrical.

On the bright side, I've got a PDF copy of the service manual for your bike I can send you when I get home, don't know if that'll help you out in your current situation or not though...

 

[Maze]

On the bright side, I've got a PDF copy of the service manual for your bike I can send you when I get home, don't know if that'll help you out in your current situation or not though...

That would be very nice! Please send it to me. I can send a pm with my e-mail.

 

[reckon]

the 535's are FAMOUS for having carb issues, (they sit on their sides in the bike, and trap crud like you wouldn't believe) BUT taking them off of the bike is NOT for a begginner, in fact it's DAMN hard for even a seasoned yammy tech with PRACTICE to get the carbs off and on a virago, ESPECIALLY the 535's
getting them off, and rebuilt (new floats, needle valve, and jets and screws) is probably whats going to have to happen.

if just the choke tube is clogged, it'll start, but only run with the choke on, (and it wont run very well), the other issue is bad floats, or clogged float needle valves, and you either get no gas at all,..or it floods the motor, and it wont run,..the rear cylinder is especially prone to this for some reason, and the bike will BARELY run on one cylinder (but if you keep the rpms above 5 grand, you can get home, kinda) if the plugs are wet, you have bad floats, or clogged or worn out needle valves, so you can check that when you look for spark on both cylinders.

BAD GAS, is the other culprit (it absorbs moisture, and over time becomes diluted with water) most motorcycles will run MUCH better with straight gasoline, and no water

so drain the tank, and both carbs completely, and then re-fill it with fresh gas, and try to push start it again

the battery is the other issue, if they aren't at full charge, they'll turn over, but won't fire up, put it on a trickle charger, for about 6 hours, and see if it'll fire in the bike, if it does, but then next day it wont, replace the battery (get the newer gel cell no maintenence ones)

the basics are:
remove a spark plug, ane leave it attatched, and set the plug on the motor, so the tip is touching metal, and crank it over and see if you have bright blue sparks on both plugs
the plug should be a tan color, and dry, if it's black and wet (sounds like porn) you have carb/bad gas issues

there can be also the kill switches, and virago's have THREE, they work on a logic circuit
1) kickstand: the bike will not start with the stand down, and the bike in gear
2) clutch: the bike will not start without the clutch pulled in unless you are in neutral
3) neutral, the bike will not start if in gear, or with the stand down, unless it's in neutral.

if any of those break, the bike wont start unless your in neutral,...PERIOD.

the electrical systems on virago's are really good, and rarely break, or break down, but the bullet connectors (in the headlight bucket) are especially prone to corrosion: clean with emory cloth, or wire brush, and clean with thinner or solvent, before re-attatching, spread a thin layer of DIAELECTRIC GREASE, (tune up grease) on the connectors, to prevent further corrosion, and to aid in conductivity.

so basically you have a damn good bike, but it's probably been neglected, and needs a little tlc, to get her running again, but once running, you can EASLIY put 60K on those motors, without needing a rebuild (I know of a virago with over 100K and no rebuild, burns a little oil, but still pulls like a truck)

so try the above stuff, and see if it fires up
you can call me if you get stuck, I can drop by maybe saturday afternoon, and see if it'll fire, or wether you'll need to take it to a mechanic, or whatever.

think: working motorcycle!

 

[Maze]

Thank you so much for all your helpful tips. Joe, thank you for being kind and talking to me when I called you this morning. This evening, with my friend's help, I was able to push-start the engine and made it safely back to Berkeley. It was so much fun riding with my new gear!

My friend referred me to a mechanic in Oakland, and I will try to go to him and get him to do a good check-up for the bike to see what is the deal with the starting problem. I also ordered service manuals, and will start reading them religiously as soon as they arrive.

Again, thank you for everyone who responded! I very much appreciate it.

 

[Ezekiel]

I'm very glad to hear you have already ordered the service manuals since I just looked and I messed up big time. I have the owners manual, NOT the service manual for the 535...big dif!!! Sorry about that man! Glad to hear you and your bike made it home safely!

 

[Maze]

I was sitting around at my friend's place this afternoon - and after opening up the bike to see the wiring underneath the seat, I realized that it wasn't simple to figure out what is what. So I went online and looked for good service manuals online - couldn't find any, so ordered them from Amazon (for future reference).

I have the owner's manual paper copy at home. If the pdf you are referring to is the owner's manual, then I won't need it. If it is service manual, I would still like to get the e-mail from you.

Thanks very much!

 

[Ezekiel]

Nope, I definitely only have the owners manual in PDF.

I've got a 250 Virago, must have come across the 535 owners manual while I was searching for the service manual for the 250. I never was able to find the 250 virago service manual online anywhere so I bought a copy of the PDF from a guy on eBay. For the sportbikes I've always been able to find copies of the service manual online for free...it's a little tougher for the cruisers though!

If you bought your service manuals on Amazon they must be either Clymer or Haynes, both of which are good service manuals, lots of pictures and stuff to help people new to it to know what's going on. You'll be pleased.

 

[Maze]

I bought the Clymer manual.

Here is the link to the manual at Amazon

I am looking forward to receiving it in mail soon.

 

[reckon]

here is a link to LOTS of virago stuff:

http://www.viragotech.com/

also get BOTH the CLYMER, and HAYNES manuals,....if your new to motorcycles, get the yamaha factory tech manual, but get that later on, they run about $50 and have every torque setting for every bolt on the bike, as well as wiring diagrams, and what order to remove and replace parts and what not, but the info is written for yamaha factory techs, so it'll say "remove carburetors" but wont tell you HOW, the clymer and haynes have better step by step instructions, while the factory manual has better testing procedures
her are more virago/motorcycle links:

carb parts: http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/default.asp

more parts (including GOOD rear shocks for YOUR bike):
http://www.partsnmore.com/

and more stuff:

http://www.cyclewareables.com/index.html

virago specific forum:
http://www.viragoownersclub.org/index_main.html

and finally a good info section on viragos, and a small blurb about the 535, scroll down:
http://www.drpiston.com/


ride safe

 

[Maze]

If it's cranking over but still not starting, you may want to pull the plugs to see if they're dirty/fouled. If both are gunked up, you won't get it to start. Just a thought, from a non-mechanic . . .

You know, it turns out that your guess was right. Yesterday I managed to replace the spark plugs, and one of them was pretty fouled up. Once I replaced the plugs, bike starts right up - no problem at all. Why do these plugs go bad? Just general usage? One of the plugs had this wet black shiny gunk on it.

 

[shraz]

goodjob on buying that book my dad has the sameone and it's great.

 

[reckon]

You know, it turns out that your guess was right. Yesterday I managed to replace the spark plugs, and one of them was pretty fouled up. Once I replaced the plugs, bike starts right up - no problem at all. Why do these plugs go bad? Just general usage? One of the plugs had this wet black shiny gunk on it.

the wet plug cylinder is running rich, or has the carb problem I previously stated, which is strange indeed for a 93 model year, but as I told you on the phone, it sounds like the previous owner just rode it, and did absolutely NO maintenence for the entire 8,000 miles on the bike, I doubt if he even changed the oil at all (I've seen worse), so you'll need to do a full going through, change ALL the fluids, change the plugs air filter, oil & oil filter, fuel filter, etc,...

I'd plan on taking it to a shop, and having the carbs rebuilt, and then SYNCRONIZED (thats a biggie on a v twin motor), and have the float levels set, with the rear cylinder slightly richer (so it runs a little cooler) and this is easily set by setting the float level a little higher in the rear cylinder.

and if you plan on keeping the bike, you should getr in the habit of regular maintenence, especially oil changes on an air cooled aluminum motor.

welcome to motorcycles

 

[donoman]

How much harder are these Virago carburators to rebuild than, say, an FZR600? I know there are going to be two of them if it's a V-twin....

What makes the assembly/disassembly difficult? Any special tools involved?

I have done an FZR600 so I'm looking for some comparison here.

 

[reckon]

it isn't so much the rebuilding, it's getting the damn things OFF the bike, they are situated between the cylinders, and there's just no room to work with.

a long handle 10mm wrench is the ONLY tool that will get to the boot bolts, and you only have about 5 degrees of wrench movement, so it takes FOREVER to get them off, and back on.

most rago's use either hitachi or mikuni carbs, and they are easy to rebuild and tune, once you get them OFF, but setting the float levels has to be done off the bike, so when your trying to set them (after you do the basic set up in a carb jig) you are taking the carbs off and putting them back on a few times till you get the levels set perfect (chop test)

this is exactly why many places refuse to work on virago's, or charge so much, they basically refuse by price.

it's THE most common thread on the virago forums: "how do you get the $#@%&!! carbs OFF of the bike??"

that and how you get the seat off, ,....

they are probably the best accelerating (for CC size), best handling, most misunderstood, ugliest cruiser bikes ever made.
you can easliy put well over 100,000 miles on the bikes before needing to rebuild anything (I have seen well cared for rago's with 200K on them, no rebuild, run great)
a group of ultra lite (tiny single seater airplanes) guys in australia will ONLY use virago motors because of the torque, and reliability.

early models got a bad rap due to starter issues (which were corrected after the 1983 model year) and the california models are prone to carb issues from lack of maintenence, and because the carbs are hard to take off, no one ever gets in there, and they get gunked up.

mine will do 11 second quarter miles all day long, has about 90hp/90TQ with VERY LITTLE MODIFICATIONS, handles better than a vintage norton (they can never keep up with me in the hills) in short it's one of the best bikes I've ever owned (I've owned about 15 bikes over 30 years or so)

I just wish it wasn't so ugly