Home Theater Receiver Recommendation

[russ69]

...Unless all your systems run the same speakers how can you really tell?...

I've been in "the hobby" a long long time. My systems are in a constant state of change. Equipment gets moved around and replaced all the time. After hours and hours of listening you get to know what each component sounds like and what pieces work well with the other pieces/systems. Remember the first rule...if you make a change and you don't hear a difference, take that unit back, you are wasting your money. Then on the other hand if a change moves your system in a better direction, you are advancing your system. You just keep doing that until you get what you want or run out of bucks, lol.

 

[mosquito]

I would check out Goodwill and Cragislist first.

 

[nbean16]

I've been in "the hobby" a long long time. My systems are in a constant state of change. Equipment gets moved around and replaced all the time. After hours and hours of listening you get to know what each component sounds like and what pieces work well with the other pieces/systems. Remember the first rule...if you make a change and you don't hear a difference, take that unit back, you are wasting your money. Then on the other hand if a change moves your system in a better direction, you are advancing your system. You just keep doing that until you get what you want or run out of bucks, lol.

Unless you are listening in identical scenarious and measuring decibel levels and using the same software and music its really hard to know whats causing the difference. If you have the money to buy ultra high end parts and mix and match and find the sound you want, then more power to you. But its not very scientific. Theres a plethora of studies showing power is what matters and fancy wires and amps either deliver enough power or dont, there is no difference. Blind tests have more than proven this. Granted there are some amazing speakers that are very inefficient and need huge power that only higher end amps may provide. But same power and same setup and same speakers is the same sound

 

[stangmx13]

Second, when we are talking about high end receivers and amps there is also no diffence in sound. You can get people swearing they can tell one is better, but its bullshit. The difference is in power.

i kno just enough about electronics design to know this is wrong. there are too many variables in electronics design and theres no right answer to a lot of the math. even something as small as the distance between components in electronics can affect a devices frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio, etc because the traces can act like antennae. all audio equipment does something to your music and a lot of people can hear the difference.

 

[russ69]

...If you have the money to buy ultra high end parts and mix and match and find the sound you want, then more power to you. But its not very scientific...

I do and I'm not on a scientific quest, it is art not science.

i kno just enough about electronics design to know this is wrong. there are too many variables in electronics design and theres no right answer to a lot of the math...

I agree, Stangmx. There have always been a group that believe everything sounds the same, if only we could measure everything the same way and the specs are equivalent. As far as I know nobody in that camp has made much impact in advancing home audio. Audio is a complex world. You can read measurements all you want, it has nothing to do with the way an item sounds. I have two ears, and it's the best instrument I own.

 

[jt2]

But same power and same setup and same speakers is the same sound

That has not been my experience. I've heard different amps with the same power output sound vastly different.

 

[Mandle]

That has not been my experience. I've heard different amps with the same power output sound vastly different.

+4

I have multiple amps/receivers with similar power levels. They definitely do not sound the same.

 

[nbean16]

You guys can believe what you want, but your ears, eyes and brains are biased. Every single blind test results in the same result. The more expensive amps cant be distinguished when everything else is equal.

Id love to set up a room and have a $1000 amp, a $5000 amp and a $10000 amp all with enough power to run a set of high quality speakers, run the same music and decibel level and see you guys try and guess which is which.

 

[nbean16]

+4

I have multiple amps/receivers with similar power levels. They definitely do not sound the same.

Similar power levels is not the same. The way power is rated is also vastly different amongst different manufacturers

 

[nbean16]

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

 

[russ69]

...Id love to set up a room and have a $1000 amp, a $5000 amp and a $10000 amp all with enough power to run a set of high quality speakers...

I do it all the time. Well maybe not all the time but a lot of times over the years. Serious evaluation takes time and you have to play a wide range of music, it's not something you can do in a hurry or by switching back an forth. Over time an opinion is developed and verified by placing the unit in multiple systems or comparing it to your known reference system, the sonic characteristics get isolated and repeated through the changes. It's a thoughtful process and not a Coke/Pepsi challenge. This usually takes me weeks if it is a new item in my system. This is the way that all audio equipment is evaluated in the industry.
Like I said before, if all amps sounded the same, my life would be easy, I'd just go buy a big brute amp, that is cheap as dirt, and I'd be done for life. No need to try anything else...ever. Oh, and my back would be in better condition not having to lift all those 100 plus pound beasts, lol.

 

[nbean16]

I do it all the time. Well maybe not all the time but a lot of times over the years. Serious evaluation takes time and you have to play a wide range of music, it's not something you can do in a hurry or by switching back an forth. Over time an opinion is developed and verified by placing the unit in multiple systems or comparing it to your known reference system, the sonic characteristics get isolated and repeated through the changes. It's a thoughtful process and not a Coke/Pepsi challenge. This usually takes me weeks if it is a new item in my system. This is the way that all audio equipment is evaluated in the industry.
Like I said before, if all amps sounded the same, my life would be easy, I'd just go buy a big brute amp, that is cheap as dirt, and I'd be done for life. No need to try anything else...ever. Oh, and my back would be in better condition not having to lift all those 100 plus pound beasts, lol.

They sound different over time because you expect them too. Its called a placebo. If they sound so similar that it takes weeks to notice the difference, then why bother?

 

[russ69]

...If they sound so similar that it takes weeks to notice the difference, then why bother?

I said it takes weeks to characterize the sound not that they sound similar. Why bother? I guess you are not an audiophile working to get the best results. That is what the whole hobby is about. Plug and play is not what we do. Well, on second thought, we DO plug and play, then unplug, change something and play again. I crack myself up...

 

[nbean16]

I said it takes weeks to characterize the sound not that they sound similar. Why bother? I guess you are not an audiophile working to get the best results. That is what the whole hobby is about. Plug and play is not what we do. Well, on second thought, we DO plug and play, then unplug, change something and play again. I crack myself up...

I understand the hobby. I do the same. But i focus on optimizing the room, trying speakers, and adjusting settings. I just dont kid myself about amps and wires.

 

[}Dragon{]

That has not been my experience. I've heard different amps with the same power output sound vastly different.

Look, the OP wants something cheap that works.

A $120 Yamaha will not be the same thing as a nice Carver or McIntosh amp.

IIRC he is looking for sound for his TV- not audio perfection.

 

[stangmx13]

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

This test is not justifying what you claim because of the following

All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost, filters) must be turned off, and if the amplifier still exhibits nonlinear frequency response, an equalizer will be set by Richard Clark and inserted inline with one of the amps so that they both exhibit identical frequency response. The listener can choose which amplifier gets the equalizer .

Amps sound different specifically because of differences in frequency response. The tester is literally tuning them to sound the same on purpose. I understand what he's testing, but it has very little real world application because no one is going to do this for the listening experience.