How much of a difference does hanging off make?

[Carlo]

I'm pretty sur the app has to use the gyros/accelerometers to figure out things like lean angle and Gs

Don't i-phones have some kind of built in level? I know you can get an app to make them serve as a quickie bubble level.

As for the question of how much hanging off helps, I'm already on record as saying that it's unimportant for sane street riding.
Anything fast enough to require the advantage provided by hanging off is beyond the safety limit for riding on public roads. And you can go plenty fast without doing it at all, some of the fastest street riders I know don't bother to hang off or shift butt.

 

[Thateguhate]

I've watched his video reel and its making more sense hearing from someone that actually resides in So Cal. All we can do is speculate from up here lol.

edit: ^^ and I agree with the statment above, for streetriding its probably not necessary. Knowing the road well enough would probably put somewhat that much further ahead. I used to get outright smoked when I first started riding the backroads. Now a days I still get smoked by my buddies, but just not as bad.

 

[Carlo]

Here is why you hang your butt off the seat. I was following this guy earlier in the day and backed WAY off because he looked like a noob riding over his head. I guess I was right. When I had an opportunity that was safe, I passed him so he wouldn't collect me in the mess he was going to create. His words after his wreck, "I was trying to keep up with you guys!"


[youtube]3zxSDZykjmI[/youtube]

I don't see how hanging off would have made any difference there. Looks like he lost traction on the rear tire with plenty of lean angle to go before any hard parts touched down. The guy ahead of him was hanging off, with sufficient room to have not leaned off, and still make the corner.

 

[bunnygoat]

Back the the APP. Its really not use-full. I did a short ride and never went above 40. app says 62 mph. Too bad, it looked cool.

 

[Kurosaki]

I read this book called "The Upper Half of the Motorcycle", and the author said that dropping the inside knee about 10 centimeters would naturally rotate the hips around the tank and change the center of gravity enough to get around the corner easily when riding the street. It works pretty well. I never liked moving around on the seat to hang off, now I just drop my knee and I'm still going just as fast as I did when I was hanging off, without the weird movement on the bike. I suppose on the track, going at track speeds, hanging off is required. But on the street, nah. So I don't worry about lean angle or hanging off, just getting around the corner as smooth and fast as I can without any drama.

^I'm in the process of reading that at the moment. Book is a little wonky at times but interesting.

 

[BMK]

...and I agree with the statment above, for streetriding its probably not necessary.

To me, reducing lean angle is always a good idea, no matter where you ride. Considering the amount of gravel, water, diesel fuel, and other traction-reducing hazards that we encounter in street riding, keeping the bike as upright as possible seems like a good idea.

There are a lot of ways to reduce lean angle, however, and the other methods seem to be mentioned only rarely whenever "hanging off" is discussed. Slowing down, choosing better lines, and increasing lean rate all come to mind.

For new riders like me who don't have a lot of experience, choosing excellent lines consistently is challenging. When following a skilled rider with my knees planted firmly to the tank, I discovered that my lean angle always exceeded his (even to the point of scraping hard parts), because he chose better lines and had the skills to minimize his lean angle at higher speeds.

So, for me, slowing down and moving some of my body weight toward the inside of the turn (in a stable and controlled way) is a very safe and effective means of reducing my lean angle on a consistent basis. While it's true that highly-skilled and experienced riders can go through turns much faster than I can without "hanging off," I'm neither highly-skilled nor experienced. So, regardless of the stigma attached to this riding technique on the street, I'm going to continue doing it. It gives me a little more room for error in maintaining traction.

 

[JMardy]

You need one of these:
http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html

 

[msethhunter]

I don't see how hanging off would have made any difference there. Looks like he lost traction on the rear tire with plenty of lean angle to go before any hard parts touched down. The guy ahead of him was hanging off, with sufficient room to have not leaned off, and still make the corner.

The view of the camera angle is kind of deciving. On an 848, with the stock tires, you can get way over before you scrape hard parts. His mistake was the relation between CG and contact patch. The whole purpose (an instructor can correct me if I am wrong[AFM, please chime in]), is to get a great contact patch on the ground, and keep the CG in a more upright position. Had you been following this guy like I was, you'd fully understand what I am talking about. He was leaned WAY over. There is a good article that explains lean angle and contact patch. Check out this picture. This is what happened to the poor fella.


http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/coming_unglued.htm

Look at the figure all the way to the right. He simply didn't have enough tire on the ground for the amount of power he was trying to get at. Rear came out, and he went a-tumblin down the road.

 

[IronMike]

I like.

The view of the camera angle is kind of deciving. On an 848, with the stock tires, you can get way over before you scrape hard parts. His mistake was the relation between CG and contact patch. The whole purpose (an instructor can correct me if I am wrong[AFM, please chime in]), is to get a great contact patch on the ground, and keep the CG in a more upright position. Had you been following this guy like I was, you'd fully understand what I am talking about. He was leaned WAY over. There is a good article that explains lean angle and contact patch. Check out this picture. This is what happened to the poor fella.


http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/coming_unglued.htm

Look at the figure all the way to the right. He simply didn't have enough tire on the ground for the amount of power he was trying to get at. Rear came out, and he went a-tumblin down the road.

Good 'splanation!

 

[kgmoto]

It makes a big difference. 16* based on that picture? Yeah, a big, noticeable difference. When you hit slick patches of road, I think it could potentially be the difference between a low side, and recovering. I move around and off the seat all the time, for every turn, except on the highway, but Im young and moving around a bunch doesnt bother me.

 

[GIXXER_777]

I don't know how much a difference in precise degrees in makes but this helps illustrate some CG behind the physics of it.

well I guess this picture does actually have some degree measurements. Should give a decent idea

Never saw that before. Good information!

 

[EastBayDave]

My own interpretation is you don't have to lean so much, so you get MORE meat of the tire on the ground. If you catch me drift...

EDIT: that flat-black bike should be easily fixable w/a rattle can paint job.

That's why they paint them flat black right?

 

[msethhunter]

My own interpretation is you don't have to lean so much, so you get MORE meat of the tire on the ground. If you catch me drift...

EDIT: that flat-black bike should be easily fixable w/a rattle can paint job.

That's why they paint them flat black right?

I'm not sure what that bikes costs, but the swingarm was scratched, not sure how close that's going to be to making it a total. Tanks was scratched and dented as well.

 

[CoolBDPhenom03]

I'm not sure what that bikes costs, but the swingarm was scratched, not sure how close that's going to be to making it a total. Tanks was scratched and dented as well.

A new 848 is probably around $12k.

 

[DannoXYZ]

My own interpretation is you don't have to lean so much, so you get MORE meat of the tire on the ground. If you catch me drift...

Yeah, what I've noticed is if you hit gravel, oil, water, etc. in mid-corner the bike will low-side under you if you're inline with the plane of the bike. Hanging off the inside more with the bike more upright tends to cause it to still slide sideways, but it tends to stay upright as it slides sideways. Gives you more time to catch the side, make adjustments and get out of it cleanly.

 

[EastBayDave]

Yeah, what I've noticed is if you hit gravel, oil, water, etc. in mid-corner the bike will low-side under you if you're inline with the plane of the bike. Hanging off the inside more with the bike more upright tends to cause it to still slide sideways, but it tends to stay upright as it slides sideways. Gives you more time to catch the side, make adjustments and get out of it cleanly.

I agree. As I don't hang WAY OFF like I used to (when I was racing 30 years ago back in the day), I'm more straight up & down, just getting the butt & leg off in a "serious" corner. Other wise I don't hang off much anymo.

As for giving you more time? I donno, I used to think when your knee is planted you had more time (because you can put weight on it when the tires start to slide out, & you can transfer weight to your knee.) But we talking street riding here not track riding so not applicable.

Funny one: a few months back I was "spraying" my riding partner w/pea-gravel by lighting the rear up in some gravel patches, using the gravel to initiate a rear slide on grippy pavement. He passed me instantly & gave me the

He just shook his head & yelled at me to "stop hurting my paint!" I guess it was kind of mean! I would only do this where I could stay about 1/2 lean or less so I got more meat of tire on the road for recovery. Kinda stupid, but fun.

 

[ST Guy]

On the street, hanging off really doens't buy you anything because you shouldn't be riding that fast. However, there are some situations where it can help. Like on dicey traction conditions. Or as a response to inadvertently entering a corner too fast for conditions.

(Like the time my wife was with me on a ride up in the Sierras with some other riders. Most were only 1 up and riding at a spirited pace. I was two up and neither of us is exactly a lightweight. Entering a left hander with a steep dropoff on the outside, I found myself scraping some hard parts. My instant reaction was to hang off by pushing the bike more upright while my body stayed where it was. My line never changed and I gained the extra clearance to keep the bike from levering itself off the road. And my wife never noticed anything.)

 

[sanjuro]

I don't see how hanging off would have made any difference there. Looks like he lost traction on the rear tire with plenty of lean angle to go before any hard parts touched down. The guy ahead of him was hanging off, with sufficient room to have not leaned off, and still make the corner.

The guy in front of him was a lot slower.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

 

[Pa2ad0x]

Never saw that before. Good information!

Interesting article. Did not know that crouching while hanging off increased the bike's lean angle? Then why are all the professional racers I see so crouched and low down on the tank while hanging off if they could just hang-off while staying high and have more contact patch?