How will electronics change how bikes are ridden?

[Marcoose]

There is most definitely a correlation between street and track when it comes to braking and acceleration. The last 50 feet of braking on the street could be life or death depending on what kind of inputs are made.

You really ride the same speeds on the track and streets?

 

[FourThreeSix]

I forgot I had to be THAT specific...

You need to be smooth on inputs whether it's at track speeds or at street speeds. The last 50 feet of braking is still important whether it's on a closed-course or on 84.

 

[Marcoose]

I forgot I had to be THAT specific...

You need to be smooth on inputs whether it's at track speeds or at street speeds. The last 50 feet of braking is still important whether it's on a closed-course or on 84.

For the record, I'm all the electronics and gadgets for as long as it doesn't render an everyday nice bike into something too expensive and unrepairable, which is where we're going with today's trends in bikes. That said, any rider can learn relatively quickly to be smooth at 35-60 mph, meaning street/twisty level. Is that just me?

 

[Lazerus]

Or on a Goldwing, flat track, single track, desert race, fixie

Sucks seeing guys like Joey or Seastio on R1's because they rode their r6's sooooo sideways.

 

[ob1ventura]

There is most definitely a correlation between street and track when it comes to braking and acceleration. The last 50 feet of braking on the street could be life or death depending on what kind of inputs are made.

Of course some track skill can make one a better street rider as do skills gained from the dirt. That's not the point.

One has posted it's all about the corners. Another that it's all about braking and acceleration. One may choose a different bike / set up for the track that the same person might pull out for a trip up to Glacier Falls. The question OP posed concerning puter bikes was not only about track bikes as far as I know.

 

[Lazerus]

The similarities far outweigh the differences. Same fundamentals, just varying degrees. The track is the most likely place to engage all available systems in a single turn (until dirt bikes get electronics anyway), so track and electronics, at this point are pretty closely intertwined in discussions. Not sure how or why that's bothersome The OP is the AFM president, BTW.

 

[redtail]

(until dirt bikes get electronics anyway)

Do adventure bikes count as dirt bikes? This has a complete array of electronics, with motion and lean sensors. The ABS even has an off-road mode.

I want one:

 

[Lazerus]

Do adventure bikes count as dirt bikes? This has a complete array of electronics, with motion and lean sensors. The ABS even has an off-road mode.

I want one:

Boom that'll trigger some stuff!

 

[ob1ventura]

The similarities far outweigh the differences. Same fundamentals, just varying degrees. The track is the most likely place to engage all available systems in a single turn (until dirt bikes get electronics anyway), so track and electronics, at this point are pretty closely intertwined in discussions. Not sure how or why that's bothersome The OP is the AFM president, BTW.

JFC!

None of the comments are bothersome.

I am very aware of not only OP's accomplishment, skills, and reputation but that of others who have track experience and have posted in this thread. He has always had my respect. That is in part why I tried to answer his question from my point of view.

I am also very aware of the fact that some and in fact much of the skills applied to the track can also be applied to the street. I have raced powerboats and in some respect the competition on the water makes one a better mariner. If I had the time I would have accepted a number of friends offer to join them on the track. Make room for the possibility that one might want the electronic for a track bike but not on a bike used for any number of other purposes.

I believe that OP's question was more general and asked for a discussion concerning the trend to more electronics on all bikes; not only track bikes.

 

[louemc]

Do adventure bikes count as dirt bikes? This has a complete array of electronics, with motion and lean sensors. The ABS even has an off-road mode.

I want one:

NOt that anyone would let you ride it off road, so you could evaluate it.

But... I'm willing to bet, if you bought it...
And then rode it off road... You would hate it, and hate yourself, for buying it.

But as a rough/hard surface road, bike...

 

[afm199]

They will make the average rider faster and safer than Louemc..

No, actually not.

 

[Holeshot]

JFC!

I believe that OP's question was more general and asked for a discussion concerning the trend to more electronics on all bikes; not only track bikes.

It totally was. Are we going to see even dirt and adventure riders that lose a part of their skillset to technology and is that a welcome thing? For the hobby/ sport it is, but given all of our backgrounds and quality of riding, how does that make people feel? Newer riders will have instant confidence to go reasonably quickly and not understand that the bike itself is giving them their ability...

It's a total bitch-fest, but it's also seeing the future of motorcycling. I see skillsets becoming less of a factor and the motorcycle being more, similar to autos. The manner in which the new road bikes are ridden is very different from the old school too. Are schools going to pick up this stuff?

Electronics are amazing though. The best part; all the race teams trying to figure out how to defeat their intrusiveness and make them better for lap times/ dirt times.

 

[Holeshot]

TC won't keep the front from tucking if you have a half hearted roll on at the bumpy crest of a turn. 2 stings both ways. Come in too fast, maybe crash, come in too slow and roll on too early, unload the front before the bump at the apex, maybe crash. Brings 'respecting the slowest part of the turn" to an unusually high level of importance.

The 2015 R1's ABS transfers weight to the rear by releasing amounts of front brake and adding amounts of rear brake...all done for you. Have a friend who had a real life near incident (at a quick pace) at Thill and was blown away by it saving grip before he could even do anything about it. That being said, most everyone turns it off for Racing.

Given the lean angle and throttle he was using, and the fact that it was an exit crash, it was the tire spinning up. As it was on corner exit, I vote that the tire spun so quickly the TC couldn't stop it. It was already at the point of no return.

What kind of bike Ernie? If it's true TC, it should catch the tire just fine. It's possible the TC wasn't set right? When TC starts going crazy, it's just a slow as shit exit.

 

[Lazerus]

But, can it transfer weight to back to the front if you're on the gas?

 

[redtail]

But... I'm willing to bet, if you bought it...
And then rode it off road... You would hate it, and hate yourself, for buying it.

Thanks for the concern, but I'm willing to take that bet!

I've tried to keep an open mind when it comes to something new and different in motorcycling and have been fortunate enough to be able to buy new. So, I don't always keep bikes very long, but have tried almost every type of bike out there, except an Adventure bike. Sometimes I discover something new that I really like and other times, not so much. Either way, I feel I'm better off for the experience.

I like the idea of a long distance traveler that has dirt capabilities. What I'd really like to do with it, is ride to Idaho and take that Idaho Backcountry Discovery Route (IBDR), see September issue of Motorcyclist.

But as a rough/hard surface road, bike...

And there's that, even if the off-road aspect doesn't do it for me.

 

[afm199]

What kind of bike Ernie? If it's true TC, it should catch the tire just fine. It's possible the TC wasn't set right? When TC starts going crazy, it's just a slow as shit exit.

BMW S1000r, brand new. He was getting great exits at huge lean, just finally binned it. Spun up the rear. Bike did a 180. When that final bit of traction is compromised from too much lean and too much throttle, it's over instantly. All the way up to that point it's salvageable.

 

[Enchanter]

If it's true TC,

What are you calling true traction control?

 

[ob1ventura]

It totally was. Are we going to see even dirt and adventure riders that lose a part of their skillset to technology and is that a welcome thing? For the hobby/ sport it is, but given all of our backgrounds and quality of riding, how does that make people feel? Newer riders will have instant confidence to go reasonably quickly and not understand that the bike itself is giving them their ability...

It's a total bitch-fest, but it's also seeing the future of motorcycling. I see skillsets becoming less of a factor and the motorcycle being more, similar to autos. The manner in which the new road bikes are ridden is very different from the old school too. Are schools going to pick up this stuff?

Electronics are amazing though. The best part; all the race teams trying to figure out how to defeat their intrusiveness and make them better for lap times/ dirt times.

One thing that never changes is that nothing stays the same. Sometimes it's progress and other times it means the loss of a good thing. Used to be somewhat seriously involved in short track speed skating (ice). Some of our group went on to join the national team. Hated it when the clap skate showed up in the Olympics.http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Clap-Skate-Draws-Boos-From-Traditionalists-3013770.php Hell, why not make a football round? In some respects speed skating became a different sport and those with less skill could be more competitive. All the electronics such as on the new R1 while inevitable are undesirable to some for the same reason many wish the Clap Skate was never invented.

Also re: the track..... is it desirable to increase speeds at the cost of reducing the competitive edge a superior skill set offers? I'm in the "no" camp. Increasing the speed does not necessarily increase the appeal for the rider or those sitting in the stands living vicariously. The America's cup got a pretty good turn out; significantly greater than the crowd that turns out every year at Sparks to watch the air races. Damn near anything that moves can be raced and it's the competition, not necessarily the top speed that is the attraction.

Part of the appeal to a sport / hobby is that there is always room for improvement and we are constantly working to improve our skill set. The new technology removes an element of the skill set required of the rider and therefore imo, takes something from the sport; something that many will miss. Even to those commuting, touring or enjoying a spirited pace over 84 as opposed to those competing on the track. Developing and continually improving ones skill set is part of the fun / appeal. A given in your opening post is that "the new electronics correct the mistakes of the rider". Not necessarily a bad thing of course but it does change the animal to a greater extent than ABS or other improvements to suspension, tires etc.

Have to admit I am not a fan of puter bikes because I'm and remember one of the reasons I got into bikes in the first place. It was the freedom offered by the simplicity of the bike. Less is more kind of thing. Air / fuel and spark baby.

 

[ob1ventura]

The best part; all the race teams trying to figure out how to defeat their intrusiveness and make them better for lap times/ dirt times.

Interesting. So it appears that for certain riders (presumably those with the greater skill set) get around the track faster without or by changing the puter?

Maybe the electronics, while minimizing the benefit of superior skill set of the rider increases the benefit of a superior wrench or technician.

 

[ob1ventura]

You're totally write!

That's racist