Idiocracy Trifecta

[mlm]

...With all due respect, I call poppycock. X amount of soil + top cover weighs this much. X amount of concrete weighs this much. X amount of people way this much.
Over build to ensure, and voila....

As I posted prior, had been reading about a similar project they're proposing in my neighborhood. And, I think you are oversimplifying, and you and others might be taking an inaccurately favorable view of past construction projects.

In regard to weigh is weight, I'll say flat out no. Something like a rooftop park introduces lot of variables such as moisture, weight, inertia, and all of these are subject to change over time, especially when you are effectively supporting a living ecosystem above.

Just overbuilding doesn't fix anything, and there is a rich and constant history of engineering failures...some I'm sure because people thought they could just "overbuild" it.

 

[mean dad]

As I posted prior, had been reading about a similar project they're proposing in my neighborhood. And, I think you are oversimplifying, and you and others might be taking an inaccurately favorable view of past construction projects.

In regard to weigh is weight, I'll say flat out no. Something like a rooftop park introduces lot of variables such as moisture, weight, inertia, and all of these are subject to change over time, especially when you are effectively supporting a living ecosystem above.

Just overbuilding doesn't fix anything, and there is a rich and constant history of engineering failures...some I'm sure because people thought they could just "overbuild" it.

I apologize for the brevity of my post. While I agree with your synopsis of weight in regards to fluctuations, it can be accurately predicted.
And by 'overbuild' I don't mean use bigger beams, I mean if you do the math and find that a park will weigh X pounds as a worst-case scenario, you design your structure to withstand 2X pounds or 1.5X pounds or 1.1X pounds. I'm not an engineer.

Again, there are literally thousands of structures that have more weight on top of them than this does.

 

[mlm]

I apologize for the brevity of my post. While I agree with your synopsis of weight in regards to fluctuations, it can be accurately predicted.
And by 'overbuild' I don't mean use bigger beams, I mean if you do the math and find that a park will weigh X pounds as a worst-case scenario, you design your structure to withstand 2X pounds or 1.5X pounds or 1.1X pounds. I'm not an engineer.

Again, there are literally thousands of structures that have more weight on top of them than this does.

And who's to say that isn't what they did?

Massive above ground rooftop parks like this are relatively new. and that carries engineering risk for unforeseen design considerations.

 

[NOTCH1]

i'm really crestfallen by this outcome.

i kind of understand the resentment towards benioff et. al smearing their moniker on the structure, but it was such a great welcoming into San Francisco, rolling in on AC Transit from my place in oakland. I'd been so used to the dismal "Temporary Transbay Terminal" and i had not known until the bus rolled into that gleaming white sculpture a few weeks ago that the new terminal had finally opened. i almost hugged the bus driver. and whisking down the 3 story escalator onto the ground floor with it's bright colored tiles and patterns. i was truly inspired to be there and hadn't even visited the roof top garden. it was a real event that i couldn't help but rave about with my friends and coworkers. they had to shut me up practically.

it's so disheartening to have to return to the temporary terminal now, realizning all that work might be for nothing.

i was on my way into the terminal on tuesday at 4:30pm while everyone else was on their way out and it took a friendly commuter to let me know as i was trying to enter the elevator that they were telling us all to go back to the temp terminal.

 

[Removed 3]

^^ i enjoyed reading this post and glancing at the avatar
Happy Friday everybody!

 

[Bay Arean]

i'm really crestfallen by this outcome.

i kind of understand the resentment towards benioff et. al smearing their moniker on the structure, but it was such a great welcoming into San Francisco, rolling in on AC Transit from my place in oakland. I'd been so used to the dismal "Temporary Transbay Terminal" and i had not known until the bus rolled into that gleaming white sculpture a few weeks ago that the new terminal had finally opened. i almost hugged the bus driver. and whisking down the 3 story escalator onto the ground floor with it's bright colored tiles and patterns. i was truly inspired to be there and hadn't even visited the roof top garden. it was a real event that i couldn't help but rave about with my friends and coworkers. they had to shut me up practically.

it's so disheartening to have to return to the temporary terminal now, realizning all that work might be for nothing.

i was on my way into the terminal on tuesday at 4:30pm while everyone else was on their way out and it took a friendly commuter to let me know as i was trying to enter the elevator that they were telling us all to go back to the temp terminal.

I'm sorry for you. Even tho I make light of all of this, its the sense of disappointment in large public projects that has happened repeatedly and that we witness on a daily basis that grind on a person.

We have two failed Caltrans intersections in my area (West CoCo) that I use quite often. Since the day they opened, any reasonable person is WTF'ing when they use them and there is no scheduled fix.

Presumably the beams will be replaced and all will be well. But Jaysus, after just opening. Too much, just like the bolts on the Bay Bridge.

They are spending hundreds of millions on the new Oroville spillway but I have to say, I am losing confidence that it will come out right.

 

[Entoptic]

Nono. Did you even read the thread?
Just the previous post mentioned to you that building heavy shit on mud is not a problem. Other people are always the problem--when they are building right next to you.. ... if you have built in the mud in the first place.

mud rights?

 

[mlm]

The more things change, the more they stay the same
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/plac...idge-construction-and-indignation-3554707.php

 

[Climber]

I'm sorry for you. Even tho I make light of all of this, its the sense of disappointment in large public projects that has happened repeatedly and that we witness on a daily basis that grind on a person.

We have two failed Caltrans intersections in my area (West CoCo) that I use quite often. Since the day they opened, any reasonable person is WTF'ing when they use them and there is no scheduled fix.

Presumably the beams will be replaced and all will be well. But Jaysus, after just opening. Too much, just like the bolts on the Bay Bridge.

They are spending hundreds of millions on the new Oroville spillway but I have to say, I am losing confidence that it will come out right.

They have absolutely no reason to do better, nobody's job was impacted by the huge Fuck-Ups on the Bay Bridge, not contractors were held accountable (instead they got bonuses).

No accountability, no consequences for fucking up will always lead to more fuck-ups.

 

[RRR70]

They have absolutely no reason to do better, nobody's job was impacted by the huge Fuck-Ups on the Bay Bridge, not contractors were held accountable (instead they got bonuses).

No accountability, no consequences for fucking up will always lead to more fuck-ups.

Sounds like a Union.

 

[bruceflinch]

Sounds like a Union.

The Unions are hired by the Contractor. Unless the problems come back to workmanship, it falls back on the contractor and or manufacturer

 

[Climber]

The Unions are hired by the Contractor. Unless the problems come back to workmanship, it falls back on the contractor and or manufacturer

Does it now?

In the case of the Bay Bridge, it fell on the Taxpayer and Toll Payers.

I suspect that the same thing will happen in this case, as well.

 

[DTM74]

I suspect Transbay will fall back on the Contractor as they're the ones that fabricated the beam, welded on the beam.

Bay Bridge was a Chinese made bridge. And like the Chinese levers on your bike...sometimes fit and finish are just lacking.

 

[sanjuro]

85% of these are Union Labor problems. Remove prevailing wage requirements from all of these, and the margins would better allow for materials, over engineering, and QA.

Dystopian Idiocracy suggests people don't know how. Reality is, society is driven by profit and Labor has made it so hard to build anything on these public works projects for a profit, they have to find it in other areas of the project.

I'm of 2 minds about this.

I was talking with a friend who worked Dreamforce, and she was delayed because the Teamsters took their time taking away her equipment.

On the other hand, another friend is a labor organizer, and he works with groups like nurses and culinary workers. I think those groups definitely need to collectively bargain.

I heard the cracked beams were made in California, and I was wondering why not China? Their labor costs are extremely low, but so are the worker pay, and of course, the quality of life.

Is that the trade-off? To find factories in the shittiest part of the world?

 

[bruceflinch]

Does it now?

In the case of the Bay Bridge, it fell on the Taxpayer and Toll Payers.

I suspect that the same thing will happen in this case, as well.

I meant the cause of the problem falls on the contractor and or manufacture. Yes we the taxpayers will end up getting the shaft again, I’m sure

 

[Snaggy]

On the other hand, another friend is a labor organizer, and he works with groups like nurses and culinary workers. I think those groups definitely need to collectively bargain.

Nursing assistants, LVN’s and home care workers are underpaid. In hospitals they usually have effective union representation. Registered nurses in CA have an incredibly powerful union that holds hospitals, and patients, by the throat. CNA has called for RN’s to strike, by the thousands, many, many times. Patients indisputedly suffer and even die as a result. The hospital death rates go up 20% during strikes according to one study. CNA has Sacramento either bought or terrified.

Link from a nursing journal.

https://www.asrn.org/journal-advanced-practice-nursing/767-study-nursing-strikes-erode-patient-care.html