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JV of “The Dog House” on Wild 94.9 Missing

Almost everything about suicide makes no sense Geoff, until the person's gone and then parts may make sense. The one word that I hate in reference to suicide is "selfish". The other part I've experienced with it is there is no warning at all. No notice given.
I agree with all of that, Berto, I've known several people who took their life and there was no (real) warnings, no threats of suicide.

One thing that has been common in the ones I know about is that they took care of loose ends, returned things they had borrowed, etc. I'd agree that in their perspective, they aren't being 'selfish', that tag should be reserved for the people who threaten it to control others without any real consideration to actually go through with it.

One guy I knew went out with a group of us, when I was working up in Oakhurst, for a trail run then a swim. There was nothing at all to indicate that we would never see him alive again, it was a total shock to hear about his suicide the next day. I scourered the entire day in my mind and could not find anything that indicated what he was going to do.
 
I'll happily take the ban here. You are a fucking idiot. And you are grossly uninformed.

Dude has tried to commit suicide before and that was no pretend effort. They found him unconscious in his running car in his garage. It is a solid conclusion that he did it this time.

Get off your high horse and shut up. You are so full of yourself and full of shit.

Where was that posted?

Where has it been confirmed that he did?

If he did do that I respect his choice and the end of his journey. Are you someone that thinks suicide is tragedy? I am not. Suicide is merely a a choice.

Death is not tragic except for the people left behind. I did not know this person, he has not left me behind. Neither, it is a safe bet, did you.

:dunno

Wow.
Chronic severe pain and depression are difficult to appreciate unless you experience it.

Yeah, no one can really know what another person is going through. If they do decide their shit isn't worth it, all you can really do is respect their choice, because no one else can really know what they are going through.
 
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Stop what exactly? There is no tragedy here until a tragedy has been confirmed. This public figure could have gone off the air quietly, they could have stated a, "leave of absence," and left it at that where cats could have just gone, "that was weird and unexpected," and moved on with their lives. Everyone could assume he was in rehab or some shit.

Instead, they made this public as some kind of crisis, left the public to be concerned and fear the worst, and now leave them without any answers or evidence?

No, treat such manipulation of the public interest with mockery until a need is given for another treatment. I am a dreadfully private person, so I understand the need for privacy, I treasure it, but the minute they made this a public crisis rather than act initially with discretion, the public is owed answers.



You are very kind and your image represents goals and values that I respect and admire. Thank you. Seeing as how many here are unable to take the reality of the duties here as they are, I shall be forced to explain my larger position on the matter.



So while I had been trying to keep this light and fun until reason was given otherwise, what you said is essentially where I stand.

I deeply respect suicide as a strong and meaningful choice, but it is cowardice when done without consideration for those impacted by your choice to exit.

His wife seemed to be in the dark on what happened. That is INEXCUSABLE. This person also had apparently some kind of public following that he cultivated through intentional development over the course of his career that he also left in the lurch with no apparent notice. That is also disrespectful and dishonorable.

Whether this person has chosen to secretly flee to some foreign country for a secret illegal medical treatment or swan dive off the GGB, he had responsibilities to others that he clearly did not attend and that is disgraceful, particularly to the wife, to whom by that process of marriage he has taken a sacred oath to uphold certain duties.



I mean, this guy had some kind of illness that may have been crippling to deal with with, it may have made a lot of sense. I can't know, because I haven;t walked in his shoes, but suicide is in fact selfish. The thing that annoys me is that people think it is not ok to be selfish. We all exist only as the self, so of course attending to your own needs as an act fo selfishness is something one is forced to do regularly and should not be invalidated unless one takes it to excess.

If this person felt that their quality of life was certainly not worth continuing to experience it, that is a valid choice and one only the person living that life is qualified to make. Such a choice should be respected, but what should be observed and judged is how one goes about performing their exit.

Experiencing life makes us all honor bound to others through commitment, connection, debts owed, and promises made. When choosing to exit, one must serve those bonds appropriately.



I cannot control what you think or how you feel, and I have no interest in controlling you, but if you would like to talk through your concerns, I would be happy to make myself available in a variety of formats.



I am sorry to hear of your loss. While choosing to exit makes a great deal of sense to me, I am strongly of the opinion that those who choose to have children have denied themselves of that choice.

It is one of the things I admire in parents that makes their self sacrifice so honorable, they have denied themselves so much for the sake of the species. For one to disregard that commitment, is a very unfortunate insult to your father. Your family has my sympathy for that terrible event.

You always come across over the years to me as an intelligent well read guy who's searching for meaning about life and has an open mind. Hope you always have this desire to seek knowledge.

But when it comes to anything suicide to need to develope a heaping dose of empathy for others which by what you posted you severely lack.

You really have zero clue on this topic.
 
I used to hold the opinion that suicide was indeed selfish...but have come to realize that it’s often a misguided act of selflessness, of removing oneself as a burden from the lives of others...from such a place of self-loathing or pain that “the world would be better off” becomes the “rational” choice.

It’s heartbreaking to think how lonely and dark a reality must be for those that find themselves at that crossroads. I hope this guy turns up ok, but if his wife is right (and clearly she would know far, far better than others) I wish her and their loved ones peace and whatever measure of closure they can achieve.

I knew of someone with long term Lyme disease and it sounds like an absolutely miserable experience. That poor guy.
 
I used to hold the opinion that suicide was indeed selfish...but have come to realize that it’s often a misguided act of selflessness, of removing oneself as a burden from the lives of others...from such a place of self-loathing or pain that “the world would be better off” becomes the “rational” choice.

It’s heartbreaking to think how lonely and dark a reality must be for those that find themselves at that crossroads. I hope this guy turns up ok, but if his wife is right (and clearly she would know far, far better than others) I wish her and their loved ones peace and whatever measure of closure they can achieve.

I knew of someone with long term Lyme disease and it sounds like an absolutely miserable experience. That poor guy.

'The world would be better off...' is tv talk.

Imagine in a war movie you've watched some guy who stepped on a mine and has his legs blown off and his guts are hanging out, he's screaming his lungs out 'someone kill me please kill me'.

He doesn't want to die per say but my God could you imagine the anguish he must be going through? At that moment he's not thinking about anyone or anything else because he can't, no one can.

It's kinda like that.
 
The one thing we can all agree on here is that everyone processes and copes with the meaning of suicide differently. For some, that might mean rationalizing it. There's space for all opinions here.
 
Where was that posted?

Where has it been confirmed that he did?

If he did do that I respect his choice and the end of his journey.

Showing you direct proof of someone's pain and struggle shouldn't be a prerequisite for you to treat them with dignity. This is an extremely poor defense of your behavior.
 
The one thing we can all agree on here is that everyone processes and copes with the meaning of suicide differently. For some, that might mean rationalizing it. There's space for all opinions here.

Process and cope differently yes, absolutely.

To use words like cowardly and selfish is cruel, judgemental and a gigantic insult.
 
Process and cope differently yes, absolutely.

To use words like cowardly and selfish is cruel, judgemental and a gigantic insult.

I've been close to someone who decided to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge the day before my birthday. I have to admit to my judging this person as cowardly and selfish in some ways. That's not all I think about it, but those feelings aren't absent from my complete emotional picture on the matter. I have a little more smarts and self control than to walk into a room and launch into a convo about it here. However, I'm prone to putting my foot in my mouth on a regular basis. And when one does get a solid taste of sock in her gob, it's not uncommon to double down. Admitting that one is wrong makes a person vulnerable--because you're asking for forgiveness, and that's not always granted.

Death is usually messy and complicated. That's only exacerbated when someone does it in a way that's not consistent with expectations about how they should depart this earth. And it's not uncommon for a lot of us to disengage the heart and move ahead strictly on rationale to cope. It's lovely of you to give the dead a break. Consider extending that grace to the living too.
 
I cannot control what you think or how you feel, and I have no interest in controlling you, but if you would like to talk through your concerns, I would be happy to make myself available in a variety of formats.

Justify your comments to yourself however you must. With the information we had (a missing person) when you ran your yap, making donkey show cracks about a missing person was way out of line. If he was your buddy and this was some inside joke, I'd 100% get it. But that's not the case, and you have no justification for what you first said, then double and tripled down on.
 
Justify your comments to yourself however you must. With the information we had (a missing person) when you ran your yap, making donkey show cracks about a missing person was way out of line. If he was your buddy and this was some inside joke, I'd 100% get it. But that's not the case, and you have no justification for what you first said, then double and tripled down on.

Oh silly. Didn't you see, we need to have empathy for the poor guy and understand that he can't help himself. Poor guy. How dare you chastise him?
 
I've been close to someone who decided to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge the day before my birthday. I have to admit to my judging this person as cowardly and selfish in some ways. That's not all I think about it, but those feelings aren't absent from my complete emotional picture on the matter. I have a little more smarts and self control than to walk into a room and launch into a convo about it here. However, I'm prone to putting my foot in my mouth on a regular basis. And when one does get a solid taste of sock in her gob, it's not uncommon to double down. Admitting that one is wrong makes a person vulnerable--because you're asking for forgiveness, and that's not always granted.

Death is usually messy and complicated. That's only exacerbated when someone does it in a way that's not consistent with expectations about how they should depart this earth. And it's not uncommon for a lot of us to disengage the heart and move ahead strictly on rationale to cope. It's lovely of you to give the dead a break. Consider extending that grace to the living too.

Absolutely, we're on the same page.

My whole point in all this is have empathy for those who felt no other choice and realize words in some cases do hurt extremely.
 
I knew him as a happy go lucky jovial guy but hadn't seen him in decades.

Tough story Geoff, but no matter how we lose those we love and like to the other world, that we got time with them is the prize. Death is tough, all around.

I agree with all of that, Berto, I've known several people who took their life and there was no (real) warnings, no threats of suicide.

I'm far from any expert it Brett, but I get it I think. I'll tell you the story when I see you in person.

'The world would be better off...' is tv talk.

Imagine in a war movie you've watched some guy who stepped on a mine and has his legs blown off and his guts are hanging out, he's screaming his lungs out 'someone kill me please kill me'.

He doesn't want to die per say but my God could you imagine the anguish he must be going through? At that moment he's not thinking about anyone or anything else because he can't, no one can.

We've had a complete accounting from accident to death of a suicide on BARF. One of the best in our club, and it all plays out here. It's brutal. The accident was brutal and the funeral was brutal. The whole damn thing. So many feelings and opinions on what went wrong, etc...but in the end, nothing went right, till the end.

I've been close to someone who decided to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge the day before my birthday. I have to admit to my judging this person as cowardly and selfish in some ways. That's not all I think about it, but those feelings aren't absent from my complete emotional picture on the matter. I have a little more smarts and self control than to walk into a room and launch into a convo about it here. However, I'm prone to putting my foot in my mouth on a regular basis. And when one does get a solid taste of sock in her gob, it's not uncommon to double down. Admitting that one is wrong makes a person vulnerable--because you're asking for forgiveness, and that's not always granted.

Death is usually messy and complicated. That's only exacerbated when someone does it in a way that's not consistent with expectations about how they should depart this earth. And it's not uncommon for a lot of us to disengage the heart and move ahead strictly on rationale to cope. It's lovely of you to give the dead a break. Consider extending that grace to the living too.

This is a really good post. Really, really good, H.

Absolutely, we're on the same page.

My whole point in all this is have empathy for those who felt no other choice and realize words in some cases do hurt extremely.

They can, but Eldity's aren't made to hurt, they're just sanitized of much emotion. People communicate differently...and I dig you guys both.
 
More of my friends have died by suicide than all other causes combined. In some cases it came as a surprise, in others, not so much. In one case, it was a rational decision, and I supported him at the end.

It's the surprise suicides that are the toughest, and despite Hollywood, nobody ever actually leaves a note explaining why. It's for the rest of us to puzzle out.

I've seen it definitely once, maybe twice. Sometimes they do leave a note.
 
I've been close to someone who decided to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge the day before my birthday. I have to admit to my judging this person as cowardly and selfish in some ways. That's not all I think about it, but those feelings aren't absent from my complete emotional picture on the matter. I have a little more smarts and self control than to walk into a room and launch into a convo about it here. However, I'm prone to putting my foot in my mouth on a regular basis. And when one does get a solid taste of sock in her gob, it's not uncommon to double down. Admitting that one is wrong makes a person vulnerable--because you're asking for forgiveness, and that's not always granted.

Death is usually messy and complicated. That's only exacerbated when someone does it in a way that's not consistent with expectations about how they should depart this earth. And it's not uncommon for a lot of us to disengage the heart and move ahead strictly on rationale to cope. It's lovely of you to give the dead a break. Consider extending that grace to the living too.

my paternal grandfather committed suicide. as have a few other relatives and friends. messy and complicated doesn't even begin to characterize it. funny how many of us think they owe us some sort of explanation. they don't owe us anything.

that said - if all you have is shit to say - no matter how much i love you, please to keep your fucking thoughts to yourself on this particular subject.
 
I've seen it definitely once, maybe twice. Sometimes they do leave a note.

BIL 25 yr old son left a note/letter. So it does happen. He did not blame anyone. That's all I will say about the letter and my opinion on why he made this decision. The family suffering is horribly deep and endless. Very, very sad.
 
'The world would be better off...' is tv talk.

Imagine in a war movie you've watched some guy who stepped on a mine and has his legs blown off and his guts are hanging out, he's screaming his lungs out 'someone kill me please kill me'.

He doesn't want to die per say but my God could you imagine the anguish he must be going through? At that moment he's not thinking about anyone or anything else because he can't, no one can.

It's kinda like that.

I see what you’re saying and agree, but also think people may lose perspective on their value to others and truly believe they’re a burden that they can relieve from others - like a terminal patient wanting to die because they can see the stress on others (my grandmother and father both expressed a desire to have their lives end both because of the quality of their health and they HATED being unable to care for themselves). Neither committed suicide per se, but my Dad ended his cancer treatments voluntarily and my grandmother just stopped taking care of herself (eating next to nothing etc.). I think I was one of the few family members that told them explicitly that despite my abiding love for them I honored their decision about their life - I never told them to “don’t leave me” and I think they appreciated that.

So yeah, of course it’s an internal decision but I absolutely think there’s empathy there - even if it causes unfathomable pain to others they almost certainly think it would bring relief to their loved ones in some way.
 
I see what you’re saying and agree, but also think people may lose perspective on their value to others and truly believe they’re a burden that they can relieve from others - like a terminal patient wanting to die because they can see the stress on others (my grandmother and father both expressed a desire to have their lives end both because of the quality of their health and they HATED being unable to care for themselves). Neither committed suicide per se, but my Dad ended his cancer treatments voluntarily and my grandmother just stopped taking care of herself (eating next to nothing etc.). I think I was one of the few family members that told them explicitly that despite my abiding love for them I honored their decision about their life - I never told them to “don’t leave me” and I think they appreciated that.

So yeah, of course it’s an internal decision but I absolutely think there’s empathy there - even if it causes unfathomable pain to others they almost certainly think it would bring relief to their loved ones in some way.

Totally agree, didn't think it all through before I posted. My dad at the end didn't want to be what he thought was a burden yet was also ready to go.
 
Totally agree, didn't think it all through before I posted. My dad at the end didn't want to be what he thought was a burden yet was also ready to go.

I’m sorry buddy...I hope you’ve found peace with it. I wish you well.
 
I’m sorry buddy...I hope you’ve found peace with it. I wish you well.

Thank you:)

My dad had a very long and adventures full life so while it was REALLY hard (and scary) for me during the end but knowing he wasn't cheated or his ending was tragic on top of he was ready to check out made dealing with it a lot better.
 
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