Lane position: blocking?

[sv2007]

What do you guys/gals say?

I don't think we should blindly go for a particular lane position. Instead, adjust to the current situation where sometimes, the center, left or right may be the best lane position.

A few things I always follow:
1. have an escape route (my scooter's brakes just suck so this is even more important)
2. scan ahead for issues, look at the road, look for sudden brake lights.
3. keep good following distance. If you ride too close, your options will be less
4. build a mental voronoi diagram and ride on the edges

 

[Traq]

BTW, your post from the California Handbook had nothing to do with "blocking" but dealt completely with lane sharing and why it's not a good idea for anyone!

That's the point of 'blocking' - discouraging other vehicles from passing you in the same lane (see definition given in OP), and that given definition is quite similar to the wording used in the CA motorcycle handbook.

For one, I don't understand why it seems the number 1 rule of motorcycling is 'ride like you're invisible', then the only basis for riding in the right side of the #1 is to try to become more visible?

I prefer to ride on the right side of the lane so I can see more of the road ahead. If you're on the left then your view of the road is pretty much completely blocked by the vehicles in front of you.

 

[ST Guy]

Yeah, I know that wasn't you who originally said it. That's why I included the original post you were replying to.

'Just checkin' to see if you're on your toes.

 

[flying_hun]

I don't think we should blindly go for a particular lane position. Instead, adjust to the current situation where sometimes, the center, left or right may be the best lane position.

A few things I always follow:
1. have an escape route (my scooter's brakes just suck so this is even more important)
2. scan ahead for issues, look at the road, look for sudden brake lights.
3. keep good following distance. If you ride too close, your options will be less
4. build a mental voronoi diagram and ride on the edges

Good points. I'm not quite geeky enough for number 4, but I'm all in favor of creating and using space.

 

[GAJ]

That's the point of 'blocking' - discouraging other vehicles from passing you in the same lane (see definition given in OP), and that given definition is quite similar to the wording used in the CA motorcycle handbook.

I don't know, I read it more like blocking cars, and motorcycles, from lane sharing....but perhaps you don't approve of motorcycles lane sharing.

I prefer to ride on the right side of the lane so I can see more of the road ahead. If you're on the left then your view of the road is pretty much completely blocked by the vehicles in front of you.

Vision from the far left of the fast lane is very good, as is the space.

Vision from the far right of the fast lane is very good, but the space is not.

The more space you have from vehicles around you the more time you have to gauge their intentions and react.

 

[ST Guy]

If you're in the left side, and a car is coming over, where are you going to go? Into the wall. If you're in the right, you have a buffer to make a arc and power forward and away. Being in the left side of the lane also makes cars mistake you for an open lane. And it feels icky.

Still faulty logic.

If the car ends up completing the lane change, you're still going to be punted over to the left and likely onto the shoulder (if there is one). That car's coming over regardless. So.....

If you're riding to the left, you have more time before impact to avoid that impact. Either braking, accellerating, or swerving as far left as you can go.

If you're riding to the right, you have less time before impact and your chances of making contact with the car are greatly increased.

If you're going to have to go to position "B" (where ever that is) to avoid contact, you're far better off being closer to that point to begin with. And furthest from what you're trying to avoid.

Like I said, that "buffer" to the left (by riding to the right) is an illusion. Ultimately, you're going to have to go to a certain position to avoid a collision. The shorter the distance you have to go to get to that position, the better off you are. And the further you are from the offending vehicle at the instant the incident begins, the better the chance you have of avoiding the car.

Riding to the left in the #1 lane also gives you an advantage in being better able to see the driver's head, their hands, their steering wheel, and the front wheels of the car. This also has the potential to give you an additional edge.

 

[sanjuro]

I've come to learn that Canadian rider education encourages lane position that they call "blocking".

I just realized blocking works in Canada because Canadians are too polite to run your ass over.

 

[Traq]

I don't know, I read it more like blocking cars, and motorcycles, from lane sharing....but perhaps you don't approve of motorcycles lane sharing.

I'm not sure what the confusion here is...

A definition of the term 'blocking' was given in the OP, namely, riding in a center lane position to discourage other vehicles from passing a motorcycle in the same lane. OP also stated he never heard of such a tactic before. I quoted a bit of the CA motorcycle handbook that says essentially the same thing as the original definition to point out that it is a pretty common bit of advice given to noobs.

So I have no idea what you're getting at here or how in the world you came to the conclusion that I possibly am against lanesplitting. I commute 11k miles a year exclusively by motorcycle, and split pretty much every single day.

Again, I was just pointing out that 'blocking' is a commonly taught tactic.

Of course the best tactic is to GTFO of the way of faster traffic, or twist your wrist a bit more instead of being a sissy.

Vision from the far left of the fast lane is very good, as is the space.

Vision from the far right of the fast lane is very good, but the space is not.

The more space you have from vehicles around you the more time you have to gauge their intentions and react.

The only thing absolute about lane positioning is that there are no absolute answers.

 

[GAJ]

The only thing absolute about lane positioning is that there are no absolute answers.

Except that you are ABSOLUTELY closer to traffic riding in the HOV lane when you are closer to them!!

A freeway lane is a minimum of 12 feet wide.

If you are riding in the leftmost part of the lane you are about 10 feet away from traffic in the closest lane to your right.

If you are riding in the leftmost part of the laney you are about 2 feet away from traffic in the closest lane to your right.

I'll take your two feet and raise you ten!

 

[Bravnik]

I ride so far to the left of the #1 lane, theres been numerous times someone has lane changed me and I didn't have to do any changes to my direction or speed. Just rode the yellow line and had plenty of room as I passed them during their lane change, even if they had nearly completed it.

This is all fine and dandy however, you simply have to question if that would have happened in the first place if you were in the right side of the lane. My guess is that would not be the case. In all my commuting last year I only had 2 people try to merge on top of me that I can remember.

I understand your guys arguments for riding left, hell I do it myself but ONLY when there are no cars in front of me. If there are cars in front I ride to the right as the cars in the front of me can prevent people in the next lane from seeing me if they use their mirrors at any point to check and what they do see is a nice fat opening they can squeeze into.

The way I see it is that people usually don't just merge without looking. This is based on 30+ years of driving and commuting over 30k miles a year on my bike. People simply don't close their eyes and merge hoping for the best. If they do merge and it seems this way to you the reason is they simply didn't see you as they looked as you were probably not there a second ago then you were, you were in their blind spot, they looked but just honestly didn't register your presence, they thought they were far enough in front of you etc. So the more you position yourself to where you can be seen the better in my mind and that's how I try to ride. This is why I ride to the right in traffic, don't split like an idiot and try to avoid staying in anyones blind spot for an extended time.

The left side of the number one lane in traffic is probably the worst place you can position yourself in my mind. Unless you have multiple car lengths in front of you it's just not safe. Your only out is left and if traffic comes to quick stop that's the only way you can go and that is EXACTLY where every car in front of you will be going. A persons natural response in a car in the number 1 lane is to go left on a sudden stop just like if you are in the far right lane your natural response is to go for the right shoulder. I have seen it thousands of times in my life.

 

[motoproponent]

I found that when I used to ride in the left side of the #1 I had many, many intrusions into my lane and people would often change lanes right on top of me. I was thankful I had the time and space to avoid them.

Now I ride in the far right of the lane. Almost on top of the white line. What was an event that had the ole' sphincter harvesting quarter-sized chunks of seat foam the daily, now happens once a month or so.

I think they can see me better and I no longer look like a gap between the car in front of me and the one behind.

Nothing scientific, just personal experience.

 

[GAJ]

This is all fine and dandy however, you simply have to question if that would have happened in the first place if you were in the right side of the lane. My guess is that would not be the case. In all my commuting last year I only had 2 people try to merge on top of me that I can remember.

I understand your guys arguments for riding left, hell I do it myself but ONLY when there are no cars in front of me. If there are cars in front I ride to the right as the cars in the front of me can prevent people in the next lane from seeing me if they use their mirrors at any point to check and what they do see is a nice fat opening they can squeeze into.

The way I see it is that people usually don't just merge without looking. This is based on 30+ years of driving and commuting over 30k miles a year on my bike. People simply don't close their eyes and merge hoping for the best. If they do merge and it seems this way to you the reason is they simply didn't see you as they looked as you were probably not there a second ago then you were, you were in their blind spot, they looked but just honestly didn't register your presence, they thought they were far enough in front of you etc. So the more you position yourself to where you can be seen the better in my mind and that's how I try to ride. This is why I ride to the right in traffic, don't split like an idiot and try to avoid staying in anyones blind spot for an extended time.

The left side of the number one lane in traffic is probably the worst place you can position yourself in my mind. Unless you have multiple car lengths in front of you it's just not safe. Your only out is left and if traffic comes to quick stop that's the only way you can go and that is EXACTLY where every car in front of you will be going. A persons natural response in a car in the number 1 lane is to go left on a sudden stop just like if you are in the far right lane your natural response is to go for the right shoulder. I have seen it thousands of times in my life.

I understand your logic, however, I've been chopped off by lane jumpers/insane mergers when in the HOV lane in my CARS so even if I'm following a car I still ride far enough back from that car just in case someone lane jumps THEM and I have to take evasive action. That's why I'm at least 3 seconds back and in the leftmost part of the lane.

Cars are less susceptible to being chopped off by a lane jumper than bikes, I'll grant you that, but they are certainly not immune...so hugging a car's bumper for "safety" simply doesn't do it for me.

 

[Tharkûn]

I've been to quite a few downright nasty car vs car (then another car and another car) crashes from people jumping into the hov lane. I'll stick to riding invisible on the left

 

[Enchanter]

What happens when riding on the right side of the #1 lane, and the vehicle in the #2 lane doesn't look in their mirrors, or turn their head before moving into the #1 lane? Does the rider have more time and space to react, or less?

I say this because I used to believe that the right side of the #1 lane made me more visible to drivers in the #2 lane. Then someone moved over without looking. I was lucky to have not injured myself when I hit their car.

 

[flying_hun]

What happens when riding on the right side of the #1 lane, and the vehicle in the #2 lane doesn't look in their mirrors, or turn their head before moving into the #1 lane? Does the rider have more time and space to react, or less?

I say this because I used to believe that the right side of the #1 lane made me more visible to drivers in the #2 lane. Then someone moved over without looking. I was lucky to have not injured myself when I hit their car.

I'm with you on this, Tim. I used to think the RH side of the #1 lane was best, and I remember thinking you were mistaken when you said otherwise, but in 2006, after riding on the street since 1976 I had my first (so far only, touch wood) contact with a car while riding a moto. I was in the RH side of the #1 lane, and the cager never looked before changing lanes. I almost got past without contact. It would have been much easier if I'd been on the LH side because I would not have had to swerve left to evade, then swerve right to keep from hitting the Jersey barrier. I might have made it if I hadn't had to swerve, and the question of visibility didn't matter one little bit.

 

[Enchanter]

I'm with you on this, Tim. I used to think the RH side of the #1 lane was best, and I remember thinking you were mistaken when you said otherwise, but in 2006, after riding on the street since 1976 I had my first (so far only, touch wood) contact with a car while riding a moto. I was in the RH side of the #1 lane, and the cager never looked before changing lanes. I almost got past without contact. It would have been much easier if I'd been on the LH side because I would not have had to swerve left to evade, then swerve right to keep from hitting the Jersey barrier. I might have made it if I hadn't had to swerve, and the question of visibility didn't matter one little bit.

One of the posts where I went into greater detail: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2455401&postcount=18