Lane sharing safety assumptions / guidelines

[badjoojoo]

2. As the years pass, the less personal rules I keep myself to regarding what I will or won't do in traffic. I ride mostly using my 6th sense.

1. I ride as fast as conditions allow through traffic at a pace that allows cars less time to react. (I've had bad, bad, experiences on a merely keeping up with traffic. spinning cars and shit)

3. I try as best I can not to be aggressive towards anyone for any perceived near death experience or any other reason and default to politeness as much as possible.

5. I keep it under 90mph. (But that's only because my road bike does exactly 90mph. )

4. Espresso is good.

All good advice, but I would argue that you do have a set of rules that you go by. You've just been doing it so long that it's become second nature to you. I especially agree with the idea of moving through traffic. You should always be moving relative to the cars around you. Ride in their mirrors and stay as visible as possible.

One thing I notice as I get older is that I still carry around false assumptions and illusions from god knows when. So I like to air out my brain once in a while to keep the bull shit to a minimum. That's what this thread's about.

 

[Ironbutt]

ok.. My perception of my riding ability and fast/safe changes year to year.

Even a few years ago I kept tight lines between cars.. or do this or do that.. Where is the safe in all that thought when I shouldn't be thinking? It's not making me a better or safer rider by holding myself to all sorts of rules and hyper analyzing shit as it's happening.

It only really took one spinning car crashing directly behind me into a guard rail to light a fire up under my ass, forever. That experience taught me to open the throttle with conviction, like my life depends on it before shit happens. Screw the complacent 'have a way out' thought process. Now it's "get out before it happens, and it will happen"

Being super timid following all the rules and being "safe"; I allowed the traffic situation around me to deteriorate to where I was in the middle of spinning cars. And all my 'outs' were taken. it took less than 5 seconds for it all to happen, even less for me to realize I had no where to go. and less than that to bring my engine to a boil and 'wheelie off to safety'.

It's a hell of a lot more fun to haul ass when you mean to haul ass.. no so when you're scared to death trying to get away from a shitty situation.

So what I'm really trying to say is.. scare yourself the whole time or as much as you can take without de-fibbing.. so you're not scared, when it's time to be scared.

All g
ood advice, but I would argue that you do have a set of rules that you go by. You've just been doing it so long that it's become second nature to you. I especially agree with the idea of moving through traffic. You should always be moving relative to the cars around you. Ride in their mirrors and stay as visible as possible.

One thing I notice as I get older is that I still carry around false assumptions and illusions from god knows when. So I like to air out my brain once in a while to keep the bull shit to a minimum. That's what this thread's about.

 

[Ironbutt]

Well, there you have it. If you can drop a Famous Name, not even the laws of physics apply. Next time you see ol' Doug, ask him a question for the benefit of BARF: If he's splitting at +55mph to traffic, and two car lengths ahead a vehicle changes lanes, what braking technique does he use to achieve the 3g deceleration needed to avoid a crash (i.e., double the braking performance of even a MotoGP bike)?

Dan, even I know that you can swerve faster than you can brake. BTW.. Who is Doug Toland and why is he famous?

 

[Banjoboy]

Dan, even I know that you can swerve faster than you can brake. BTW.. Who is Doug Toland and why is he famous?

Maybe they mean Doug Polen? Or James Toseland?

 

[badjoojoo]

Being super timid following all the rules and being "safe"; I allowed the traffic situation around me to deteriorate...

Being timid is the antithesis of being safe. Don't confuse logical riding techniques with timid ones.

I think you're missing the point. No one's advocating strapping a list of rules to your tank. This is about examining practices while sitting in front of my monitor, not while riding. Sharing information and becoming better riders is what I think this forum's all about. Gain some knowledge, stow it away, and let's all make it home safe.

 

[Traq]

I lane sharing according to what my 10 years 100k+ miles of year round rain or shine commuting experience tells me. There ain't no writing that shit down because every single guideline has dozens more "except when"s attached to them.

Wait, no, I can think of one...don't ride like a douchebag. And that's defined as 'will more than 1% of the police officers that see you riding think about pulling you over?'

 

[Gabe]

Dan, even I know that you can swerve faster than you can brake. BTW.. Who is Doug Toland and why is he famous?

Doug raced World Endurance back in the day and is now one of Honda's development riders.

New to California? Lane-splitting is not "questionably legal", as you could learn from The Definitive Lane-SHARING Thread in the LEO forum. As a matter of fact, why don't you compare it to drinking and riding over in that thread. I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome.


Well, there you have it. If you can drop a Famous Name, not even the laws of physics apply. Next time you see ol' Doug, ask him a question for the benefit of BARF: If he's splitting at +55mph to traffic, and two car lengths ahead a vehicle changes lanes, what braking technique does he use to achieve the 3g deceleration needed to avoid a crash (i.e., double the braking performance of even a MotoGP bike)?


Well, no. But here's a counter-offer: How about you MYOFB and let BARFers who want to discuss strategies that make them safer do so without injecting your unhelpful opinions?

Regardless of what's been said before, there is no law for or against lane-sharing, splitting or whatever you want to call it. Doing it at some speed (and what speed is that, exactly?) or in certain ways is beyond a doubt illegal. Therefore, the activity of lane-splitting is indeed of questionable legality. I was born in California and I've benn lane-splitting for 22 years.

I'll mind my own business when you do. I'm not saying there shouldn't be advice given, just that I don't believe in making "rules" or giving advice about things that are of questionable legality or prudence, because a noob will mis-interpret them and kill or injure themselves. I think that's a VERY helpful opinion, thanks very much. As if my posting will keep BARFers from discussing anything.

I lane sharing according to what my 10 years 100k+ miles of year round rain or shine commuting experience tells me. There ain't no writing that shit down because every single guideline has dozens more "except when"s attached to them.

Wait, no, I can think of one...don't ride like a douchebag. And that's defined as 'will more than 1% of the police officers that see you riding think about pulling you over?'

Well said, sir. I'm glad someone understands what I'm trying to say.

Given all the above, here's how I roll whilst lane-splitting:

-Use the 1-2 gap
-25-30 mph in stopped traffic
-No faster than 40-45 in slow-moving traffic
-Check mirrors every 5-10 seconds and move to the right when a faster rider wants to get by (not often! Ha!)
-I do it at every red light regardless of how few cars are there, but don't go into intersection before double-checking (both directions) that it's clear.

 

[badjoojoo]

Given all the above, here's how I roll whilst lane-splitting:

-Use the 1-2 gap
-25-30 mph in stopped traffic
-No faster than 40-45 in slow-moving traffic
-Check mirrors every 5-10 seconds and move to the right when a faster rider wants to get by (not often! Ha!)
-I do it at every red light regardless of how few cars are there, but don't go into intersection before double-checking (both directions) that it's clear.

There, was that really so difficult?

 

[Gabe]

There, was that really so difficult?

I just don't want new riders to get the idea that as long as they do that, it's okay and they won't get hurt. Sure, any new rider with that attitude is an idiot and is asking for it, but I don't want to add to it...can you dig it?

 

[Eric in Davis]

You could say that about any motorcycle training discussion. Pretty silly to make such a big deal out of it just for lane sharing -- a legal practice in California.

 

[Gabe]

You could say that about any motorcycle training discussion. Pretty silly to make such a big deal out of it just for lane sharing -- a legal practice in California.

You could say that about cornering, braking, rainy-weather riding, etc...because experts have thought long and hard about the "right" answers, and know those answers are effective because they've studied the results of training, etc. Asking a bunch of yahoos on a internet forum the best way to do something that's more dangerous than standard riding--no matter how safe they think they are--is a great way to get bad information out to very malleable minds.

Not trying to be difficult or disrespectful, and I totally understand and support what everybody is trying to achieve here. I'm just sayin'...

 

[Ironbutt]

I just don't want new riders to get the idea that as long as they do that, it's okay and they won't get hurt. Sure, any new rider with that attitude is an idiot and is asking for it, but I don't want to add to it...can you dig it?

I feel the same way.. Some things you just can't pass on verbally. Lane sharing is one of those things..

I'll be honest.. I do the complete opposite of what people here say to do.. I don't agree with most of it.. It's not safe as far as I'm concerned.

"Slow before entering a stopped line of cars.." I normally speed up... Don't go over 45mph between cars.. I ride 50-70+mph between them.. Keep a 10MPH delta.. I never ride less than 20-30mph delta.. 1-2 gap? How is that possible when passing between cars?

I never stop lane sharing.. I'm always moving and passing.. If a car swerves, I crank the gas open.. if a car slows.. I crank the gas open.. stopped line of cars? I speed up. See... I'm bad at giving advise.

I tell you this stuff and I get turds thrown my way.. I'm waiting..

It's easier to be vague and say stuff like.. I keep a "pace" that allows me to pass cars before they can react" then it is to be exact and have the meaning lost arguing about what I do VS what you do.

But you asked.. so there it is.. I'm a bad boy.

I agree with Gabe.. Most of the riding I do feels and probably is illegal in some way...

 

[badjoojoo]

Alrighty then, you fellas have said your peace. Please feel free to start a thread titled "Why rules/people are dumb; or how I stopped worrying and learned to love not thinking things"

Moving on; let's see if we can get back to actual helpful info.

No, SERIOUSLY. Moving. On.

 

[Ironbutt]

Alrighty then, you fellas have said your peace. Please feel free to start a thread titled "Why rules/people are dumb; or how I stopped worrying and learned to love not thinking things"

Moving on; let's see if we can get back to actual helpful info.

No, SERIOUSLY. Moving. On.

Moving on..

AGATT

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

What's the big deal about only filtering to the front at a light when you are sure it won't turn green until after you get there? How is sharing at 5mph at an intersection any different that sharing in bumper to bumper on the freeway? If the light turns green and I'm halfway there, I just wait for an opening to drop into, no big deal IMO.

It's uncomfortable to me for a number of reasons. On the freeway there are no intersections or cross-traffic. Car behavior is much less predictable on city streets. The lanes are narrower, people are jockeying to make last minute turns, and cars tend to weave around the most when they are first starting to move-- and they are all accelerating quickly, with clear road up ahead. Both lanes are starting off at the same time, rather than the more staggered motions stop-and-go traffic has on the freeway. Also the visibility is bad, approaching the intersection boxed in by moving cars-- if I'm splitting and accelerating past them I have no idea what might be out in front, whereas if I was already at the front of the line I have a chance to look around. In general, I greatly prefer to be in a normal lane area while I'm actually in an intersection, which I can move into as soon as I start off when I'm in front, I hate getting stuck between cars when I reach the middle of the intersection.

Mostly though, it's that the lanes are narrower.

 

[Ralph Herl]

The worst days splitting are when traffic has come to a full stop, as cars don't stop neatly in the middle of their lanes... and of course, some bozo will open his door to get out and look around and fart. As long as traffic is moving, I'll find a way to filter through.