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Link between MMR & autism is apparent

redruM said:
surely you must see the difference. . .between the masses who will always have a bias toward academic groupthink explanations of the world around us (as framed by the establishment and their media, who are in business to mold the hivemind) -- and the smaller-yet-growing population of free thinkers, many of whom were once a part of the hivemind, but started to see "glitches in the matrix"... and whose bias slowly turned toward anti-establishment views.
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redruM said:
I don't have an issue with the scientific method.

I have a huge issue with the cult of scientism. And it's this cult that thoroughly controls official narrative surrounding vaccine policy/procedure, pharmaceuticals, GMOs, cancer, fluoride, and on and on and on.
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redruM said:
I support independent science that is not inter-meshed with Big Pharma/Big Food/Big Chem profits.
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Each of these statements are very enlightening and demonstrate a misunderstanding of how science really operates. I think you'll get a real kick out of the podcast on Failure...

http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-385/

I highly recommend you give it a listen. Trust me it's very informative. As is the podcast on Ignorance. Really cool stuff that clarifies how good science should really be approached.

Also, have you read this book by Carl Sagan?

http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

It might or might not provide clarification to the current discussion but will give you powerful tools for the future.
 
Dr_SLO said:
Also, have you read this book by Carl Sagan?

http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

It might or might not provide clarification to the current discussion but will give you powerful tools for the future.
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You know, I hadn’t heard of that book and, frankly, don’t know much at all about Sagan – but thank you for bringing him up in this discussion. I stumbled upon Carl’s last interview before he passed and watched it (they were promoting this very book). I feel vindicated. While I certainly recommend watching the whole interview, for starters, here’s a quick clip that resonates with me:

[youtube]d8O1e_TZHZo[/youtube]

What a prophetic warning to Americans, eh? This book came out 20 years ago; these words coming 6 months before he died. Off topic, did you know his son and first wife both thoroughly disbelieve the official story of 9/11? Yep, “Truthers” both.

Anyway, here, ponder more quotes of his from this book:

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
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“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
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“If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.”
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I’d love to hear what Carl would have to say today, 20 years later, in this post-911, Snowden-exposed, technocratic, TooBigToFail, Big Pharma/Food/Chem, HFT algorithm-manipulated, phantom-currency-funded police state world around us. Can you imagine?

Pehaps you can see how I make the connection between the above listed prophetic wisdom of Sagan and my own skepticism about the science/medical Establishment.

And Dr. - you have yet to share your thoughts about your peer Dr. Humphries’ view regarding polio. Was hoping for some intellectual honesty on your part regarding her sentiment and the logic/reason she uses to fuel it.

Interested to see if you're as objective as you claim to be.
 
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OP, appreciate your concerns in different threads, even if they may be off (not my place to decide, since I know nothing of this subject).

Just curious what your parents were like, what your childhood was like?

Also, how do you find the time and energy to debate online so much? What is your goal?
 
redruM said:
You know, I hadn’t heard of that book and, frankly, don’t know much at all about Sagan – but thank you for bringing him up in this discussion. I stumbled upon Carl’s last interview before he passed and watched it (they were promoting this very book). I feel vindicated. While I certainly recommend watching the whole interview, for starters, here’s a quick clip that resonates with me:

[youtube]d8O1e_TZHZo[/youtube]

What a prophetic warning to Americans, eh? This book came out 20 years ago; these words coming 6 months before he died. Off topic, did you know his son and first wife both thoroughly disbelieve the official story of 9/11? Yep, “Truthers” both.

Anyway, here, ponder more quotes of his from this book:







I’d love to hear what Carl would have to say today, 20 years later, in this post-911, Snowden-exposed, technocratic, TooBigToFail, Big Pharma/Food/Chem, HFT algorithm-manipulated, phantom-currency-funded police state world around us. Can you imagine?

Pehaps you can see how I make the connection between the above listed prophetic wisdom of Sagan and my own skepticism about the science/medical Establishment.

And Dr. - you have yet to share your thoughts about your peer Dr. Humphries’ view regarding polio. Was hoping for some intellectual honesty on your part regarding her sentiment and the logic/reason she uses to fuel it.

Interested to see if you're as objective as you claim to be.
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Carl Sagan said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have not provided any for your extraordinary claims.

You're as convincing as people who believe in Lizard Men, Counter-Earth and Flat Earth. They come across as nut-jobs.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
Carl Sagan said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have not provided any for your extraordinary claims.

You're as convincing as people who believe in Lizard Men, Counter-Earth and Flat Earth. They come across as nut-jobs.
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If this is all you can come away with thinking from my posts, then you might be the nut job. Now if you'll excuse me, I have no more tolerance for belligerence.
 
redruM said:
If this is all you can come away with thinking from my posts, then you might be the nut job. Now if you'll excuse me, I have no more tolerance for belligerence.
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You deserve belligerence, and scorn. Your opinion is flat out "wrong", because it is not based in reality. You're like Jenny McCarthy on Oprah without the nice breasts. You can be insulted all you want but it won't make you correct.

I'm confused why you think being wrong should be respected. Opinions are worthless in some cases.
 
TripleSeven said:
OP, appreciate your concerns in different threads, even if they may be off (not my place to decide, since I know nothing of this subject).

Just curious what your parents were like, what your childhood was like?

Also, how do you find the time and energy to debate online so much? What is your goal?
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not sure if truly earnest, but i'll give a snapshot

only child. grew up in a single parent home, father absent. over-protective mom in some respects, but also gave me great freedom to express myself. excelled in all sports. hated schoolwork, career B/C student, yet off the charts on standardized tests.

as for finding time and energy - I mean, I don't think my post count is all that high. and I debate like this every once in awhile, in select types of threads. my career enables me to access the web, absorb data and exchange thoughts - in this case, with others who share my passion for riding motorcycles. I haven't debated on or otherwise belonged to any other online communities since joining BARF.

my goal? with my life half over, I've come to realize how short our time is in this world, this life - and it makes the need to lift the veil of deception that much more pressing. more people need to dig beneath the surface... I guess I'm just trying to provide the shovels.

and let me just acknowledge the potential for a derisive shovel:bullshit joke here. just so no one gets the pleasure :twofinger
 
MrIncredible said:
Probably on who the charlatan is.
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Ironically he is upset I am calling him out as one.

I'm skeptical of him.

This is what pseudo-scientific charlatans do. They ask why you're so upset, where's the anger coming from and never address any critiques or actually read the scientific posts you link them to. Their links lead nowhere or to quack web sites that were debunked years ago. They wish you well instead of using any form of logic or coherence.
 
carl%2Bsagan.jpg
 
Logical responses are just feeding his persecution complex so he can wallow in the tale of having fought the good fight....
 
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