methods for preparing abs/ppe fairings for paint?

[daazndood]

Hello peoples. I am currently doing an F4i front conversion and 98 F3 rear conversion on my CBR F3. It is almost time to paint.

From my observations, i see that the fairings are either ABS or PPE. how should i go about preparing these to get painted? should i sand it down to expose the plastic and then primer it? or should i just lightly sand off the outer layer and primer that.

Also, some parts are not painted at all. for example the tail is not painted, it is just polished ABS plastic. How would i prep this for paint?

any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks guys.

 

[daazndood]

Also, what should i do about the gas tank? I heard i should just sand off the clearcoat and paint over that becuase the stock paint already has the best adhesion and if i sand down to the bare metal i will run into painting problems.

 

[jmonte35]

You do not have to take it down to the plastic however all stickers must be removed which can be a pain in the ass. When we paint we usually do an initial sand with 180 grit sandpaper. Then prime with a good urethane primer. If you are looking for a pretty good primer at a good price 5 star has a pretty good primer. After the primer is dry wet sand with 3 - 400 grit wet/dry sand paper until all runs and other imperfections are out but still making sure to hit every area. base coat then clear coat. base usually goes on very good but most of your problems will probably be in the clear. If you have runs in the clear wait until dry. At least 1-2 days. Then Wet sand the imperfections lightly with 1500 grit wet/dry sand paper and be careful not to burn through the clear then buff to a beautiful shine. Tank is the same process. If you sand down to bare metal DO NOT WORRY just primer and wet sand and everything will be ok whoever told you that sanding down to bare metal will ruin your paint job is wrong.

 

[reckon]

the above is good info,...BUT!!!

bare ABS, and ESPECIALLY PPE plastic needs an adhesion promoter

bulldog spray is your best friend here,...get a 14oz can and just read the back and follow the instructions to the LETTER.

remember this is ONLY on bare plastic spots, try and leave as much of the original finish on as possible, and then use the PAP(plastic adhesion promoter)on any bare spots, and then sealers/primers as "tie coats".

I prefer a thin coat of epoxy sealer/primer(OMNI MP170/PPG DPLF, etc,...) on ANY refinish, as it's a NON SANDING coat, so you can topcoat it within the re-coat window (varies from about 72hrs all the way up to a week) with no more elbow grease (saves like a billion sanding hours)

so you'd do your repair work, filler, shape, spot prime the repairs, then sand the whole thing down with a finishing grit (240=solid colors/320-400 for metallics)ONCE, then shoot the sealer, and then base, clear. (no sanding after the sealer coat applications)

I'd also think about using whats called a "groundcoat" which is an initial coat of a similar colored paint: this is especially important with metallics, or kandys or other "trick" colors as they won't "hide" very well, so you need that similar colored groundcoat, so when you start spraying the color coats, it looks even, and it wont take a gallon to hide whats underneath.

you probably should also read my sticky about painting without a compressor, as I cover this, and many other subjects, and even though it's geared towards high end rattlecans, the info is a good painters mantra, with LOTS of tips and trix in there if you take the time to read it through.

peace, love and isocyanates

 

[jmonte35]

+++ 1 for the above info I was just trying to give you a good beginner basics. 5 star primer gives you a lot of options with instructions on how to mix it for the results you desire. You can use it for just a sealer coat or highbuild just depends on the mixture. Omni is also a great low cost primer/sealer.


Good luck with your paint job!

 

[reckon]

+++ 1 for the above info I was just trying to give you a good beginner basics. 5 star primer gives you a lot of options with instructions on how to mix it for the results you desire. You can use it for just a sealer coat or highbuild just depends on the mixture. Omni is also a great low cost primer/sealer.


Good luck with your paint job!

5 star is one of those things you don't expect,..."wait, it's cheap AND it kicks ass"?

so yeah great products, at surprisingly good prices,....the OMNI stuff, however, you have to watch,..I'd avoid ANY OMNI basecoat (they suck, the colors don't EVER match, and it wont hide at ALL), BUT the OMNI low VOC clear is AWESOME! (MC262), sprays pretty thick, builds nice, runs a lil easy, but it lays like glass once you get the gun set up correctly.

the OMNI MP170 epoxy sealer is another surprise, very low cost, but GREAT performance.

if you really want some kick ass paint, try this guys stuff
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/homepage-old.htm

his "turbo primer" can be sanded in less than 15 minutes and his clear coats look like liquid glass,....he also has the "blackest black" I have ever seen, and apparently it has no fillers, just pure micro milled carbon,........the stuff looks like outer space,........... just awesome

he ships, will answer his phone, gives GREAT advice, has great customer service, yada yada

anyway check him out if you are a hobby painter or run a small shop, his prices AND quality can't be beat.

 

[jmonte35]

OMNI base does suck for color match but for basic colors it works great. DBC for color matching has been really good. I like OMNI for just about everything basic except color matching. OMNI clear has worked well for us especially keeping the costs down and the paint still looking good. I'm gonna look into that guy it looks like some pretty good stuff. We run a small shop so finding good cost efficient materials are a big bonus. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[jmonte35]

sorry for the thread jack but hopefully your bike turns out good.

 

[daazndood]

the above is good info,...BUT!!!

bare ABS, and ESPECIALLY PPE plastic needs an adhesion promoter

bulldog spray is your best friend here,...get a 14oz can and just read the back and follow the instructions to the LETTER.

remember this is ONLY on bare plastic spots, try and leave as much of the original finish on as possible, and then use the PAP(plastic adhesion promoter)on any bare spots, and then sealers/primers as "tie coats".

I prefer a thin coat of epoxy sealer/primer(OMNI MP170/PPG DPLF, etc,...) on ANY refinish, as it's a NON SANDING coat, so you can topcoat it within the re-coat window (varies from about 72hrs all the way up to a week) with no more elbow grease (saves like a billion sanding hours)

so you'd do your repair work, filler, shape, spot prime the repairs, then sand the whole thing down with a finishing grit (240=solid colors/320-400 for metallics)ONCE, then shoot the sealer, and then base, clear. (no sanding after the sealer coat applications)

I'd also think about using whats called a "groundcoat" which is an initial coat of a similar colored paint: this is especially important with metallics, or kandys or other "trick" colors as they won't "hide" very well, so you need that similar colored groundcoat, so when you start spraying the color coats, it looks even, and it wont take a gallon to hide whats underneath.

you probably should also read my sticky about painting without a compressor, as I cover this, and many other subjects, and even though it's geared towards high end rattlecans, the info is a good painters mantra, with LOTS of tips and trix in there if you take the time to read it through.

peace, love and isocyanates

ok this is where i get all confused. Im used to just the typical primer, base, clear. with plastic i gotta throw in some other stuff like you said.

so for the ABS/PPE fairings, I must go:

PAP - only for the bare plastic. Will probably do the whole surface to be safe?
Primer - whole surface
Sand whole surface 300-400 grit
Sealer -
Base -
Clear -

did i get that right?

and the tank i can sand off just the clear and go with the typical primer/base/clear?

 

[reckon]

ok this is where i get all confused. Im used to just the typical primer, base, clear. with plastic i gotta throw in some other stuff like you said.

so for the ABS/PPE fairings, I must go:

PAP - only for the bare plastic. Will probably do the whole surface to be safe?
Primer - whole surface
Sand whole surface 300-400 grit
Sealer -
Base -
Clear -

did i get that right?

and the tank i can sand off just the clear and go with the typical primer/base/clear?

pretty much, but like most you are sanding WAY too much, remember this is a motorcycle, not norm from new yankee workshop finishing a credenza!

you have to sand everything FIRST with 320 anyway for general adhesion, then for bare plastic only use the PAP, then wait for the PAP to dry THEN you'd spray the sealer over the PAP (no sanding), wait for that to dry and then start right in with the basecoat, and clear (no more primer, or more sanding needed, see why I like it? arty )

you only need to "spot" the primer where you have body work to cover the deep scratches left from shaping bondo(filler), then you'd sand the just the primer spots with 180/220(because the sealer will hide the 180/220 scratches), then shoot the sealer over the entire piece, then base, and clear.

so for your polished ABS/PPE tail: sand with 320 all over, shoot PAP all over, let dry, then shoot sealer all over, let dry, then shoot base & clear.
For the tank just sand it down with the 320 all over, then shoot the epoxy sealer all over, wait 30 minutes, and then basecoat and clear, you don't have to sand all the clear off (unless it's peeling), you just have to get it nice and scuffed with the 320 so the sealer, base and clear will stick to it.

the bonus about the epoxy sealer is that once the parts have been shot with it, you do not have to sand it to put more paint on top of it, AND that "no sanding feature" will last for about 3 to 5 DAYS, so it gives you flexibility as well as saves about a million hours of repetitive sanding.

If you use high build primer, you MUST sand it first before you can top coat it, so if you don't have any deep scratches (deeper than 180/220) you don't need primer.

I have been painting cars, motorcycles, bicycles, and just about anything that would hold still long enough for almost 35 years now, and in all that time I never met ANYONE that loved to sand things down, so unless your the first guy,....check it out.

I wont shoot anything now without the epoxy sealer, it has just spoiled the shit outta me

 

[daazndood]

pretty much, but like most you are sanding WAY too much, remember this is a motorcycle, not norm from new yankee workshop finishing a credenza!

you have to sand everything FIRST with 320 anyway for general adhesion, then for bare plastic only use the PAP, then wait for the PAP to dry THEN you'd spray the sealer over the PAP (no sanding), wait for that to dry and then start right in with the basecoat, and clear (no more primer, or more sanding needed, see why I like it? arty )

you only need to "spot" the primer where you have body work to cover the deep scratches left from shaping bondo(filler), then you'd sand the just the primer spots with 180/220(because the sealer will hide the 180/220 scratches), then shoot the sealer over the entire piece, then base, and clear.

so for your polished ABS/PPE tail: sand with 320 all over, shoot PAP all over, let dry, then shoot sealer all over, let dry, then shoot base & clear.
For the tank just sand it down with the 320 all over, then shoot the epoxy sealer all over, wait 30 minutes, and then basecoat and clear, you don't have to sand all the clear off (unless it's peeling), you just have to get it nice and scuffed with the 320 so the sealer, base and clear will stick to it.

the bonus about the epoxy sealer is that once the parts have been shot with it, you do not have to sand it to put more paint on top of it, AND that "no sanding feature" will last for about 3 to 5 DAYS, so it gives you flexibility as well as saves about a million hours of repetitive sanding.

If you use high build primer, you MUST sand it first before you can top coat it, so if you don't have any deep scratches (deeper than 180/220) you don't need primer.

I have been painting cars, motorcycles, bicycles, and just about anything that would hold still long enough for almost 35 years now, and in all that time I never met ANYONE that loved to sand things down, so unless your the first guy,....check it out.

I wont shoot anything now without the epoxy sealer, it has just spoiled the shit outta me

so having primer on some parts of the surface, but not others will not affect the overall adhesion of the paint??

you mentioned sealer for the plastic fairings, and then epoxy sealer for the tank. are these the same things?

im going to be following your directions religiously. Thanks so much Reckon!

 

[reckon]

so having primer on some parts of the surface, but not others will not affect the overall adhesion of the paint??

you mentioned sealer for the plastic fairings, and then epoxy sealer for the tank. are these the same things?

im going to be following your directions religiously. Thanks so much Reckon!

1) sealer and epoxy sealer, are the same thing.

2) and no, having SANDED primer and SANDED paint will NOT affect adhesion, THIS IS WHY YOU USE SEALER, it's STICKY, stuff sticks to it,...in a sense, it's an adhesion promoter,....it'll help anything you shoot over it stick, so if the surface is ALL sanded down to 320, it doesn't matter if parts of it are 320 sanded primer, or 320 sanded original factory finish, the sealer will stick to that, and EVERYTHING will stick to the sealer. the ONLY problem you might have with spot priming, is that if your color coats don't hide very well (like reds, yellows, and metallics), if you DID NOT shoot the sealer, you might see the "ghost image" of the repair area through the color coats, which is the OTHER reason you use the sealer, because then everything is all one even color before shooting color coats/clear.

If you choose PPG DPLF sealer, it comes in several colors: white, black, grey, buff(tan), purple and green,...so if your shooting RED or YELLOW, use buff,...for black or dark colors use the black, white gets white, and for dark metallics or deep reds, you'd use green, or purple respectively, that way it takes less color coats to achieve the target shade/color and you have hidden the repair/primered spots, and made everything nice and sticky so it'll all sticks and ends up curing into ONE SOLID LAYER OF PAINT,...and wont "delaminate"(peel) after time.

ok now no more questions,........
PAINT!
RIDE!
WIN! arty

 

[blackoutgsxr]

most of your problems will probably be in the clear. If you have runs in the clear wait until dry. At least 1-2 days. Then Wet sand the imperfections lightly with 1500 grit wet/dry sand paper and be careful not to burn through the clear then buff to a beautiful shine.

Would i use 1500 grit to get rid of orange peel?

What can i use to "buff to a beautiful shine?"

 

[daazndood]

1) sealer and epoxy sealer, are the same thing.

2) and no, having SANDED primer and SANDED paint will NOT affect adhesion, THIS IS WHY YOU USE SEALER, it's STICKY, stuff sticks to it,...in a sense, it's an adhesion promoter,....it'll help anything you shoot over it stick, so if the surface is ALL sanded down to 320, it doesn't matter if parts of it are 320 sanded primer, or 320 sanded original factory finish, the sealer will stick to that, and EVERYTHING will stick to the sealer. the ONLY problem you might have with spot priming, is that if your color coats don't hide very well (like reds, yellows, and metallics), if you DID NOT shoot the sealer, you might see the "ghost image" of the repair area through the color coats, which is the OTHER reason you use the sealer, because then everything is all one even color before shooting color coats/clear.

If you choose PPG DPLF sealer, it comes in several colors: white, black, grey, buff(tan), purple and green,...so if your shooting RED or YELLOW, use buff,...for black or dark colors use the black, white gets white, and for dark metallics or deep reds, you'd use green, or purple respectively, that way it takes less color coats to achieve the target shade/color and you have hidden the repair/primered spots, and made everything nice and sticky so it'll all sticks and ends up curing into ONE SOLID LAYER OF PAINT,...and wont "delaminate"(peel) after time.

ok now no more questions,........
PAINT!
RIDE!
WIN! arty

haha alright but just 1 more question if you dont mind. I've got the instructions down, i just need advice on what to buy now.

PAP -
Primer -
Sealer -
Base -
Clear -

you recommend U-pol but thats some expensive stuff. what do you think i should use for each category?

 

[reckon]

haha alright but just 1 more question if you dont mind. I've got the instructions down, i just need advice on what to buy now.

PAP -
Primer -
Sealer -
Base -
Clear -

you recommend U-pol but thats some expensive stuff. what do you think i should use for each category?

assuming you have a compressor, follow the above link I posted for southern polyurethanes,...

if you DO NOT HAVE A COMPRESSOR,..I just wasted 2500 words of instructions, because there ARE NO RATTLECAN EPOXY SEALERS.

so you would follow my instructions in the sticky I posted here in the garage (which I already HAVE written the needed info)

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