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Michelin Pilot Powers vs Pilot Power 2CT

yody said:
I had good intentions when reading this thread,

Wait! You edited your reply! Did you add another :wtf

All knowledge is a journey :) I had a Professor at Cal who rolled his eyes at a student behind his back and mumbled he was an idiot because he could not grasp the theory of Quantum Tunneling... Some days you have to buckle down and remember that people aren't born with the knowledge that you struggled to attain at one time...

Help us out here Yody! Ignorance and the ridicule of others is for squids!


:laughing

Stefan
 
yody said:
I had good intentions when reading this thread, however it turned out to be the gayest thread ever this week, maybe month, we have people "measuring" their chicken strips with a tape measure, and then posting pictures on Barf of it :wtf then we have a challenger who shows his street tires on a bike at the track chickenstrips :wtf , oh and the irrevelant info about these tires. How in the hell do you compare 2 tires on an onramp?? How far is this onramp from your house? Tires take awhile to warm up before reaching "kneedragging lean angles" :wtf :wtf. You are experiencing a cold tire, your original PP's are all flat in the middle and are not comparable. If you ever saw a Michelin Race tire PRC front tire you would think the PP was a sport touring tire. No way that the profile of the 2CT is making your bike "wallow" you either suck at riding, or you are on a cold tire on a greasy ramp on the freeway. :wtf :wtf, oh and one more time :wtf


Poor Yody....

I knew that picture would send someone ballistic...

hehehe
 
gixxerboy55 said:
From what i understand the PP and 2ct are the same tire, except for the softer compound may want to get your eyeball re calibrated.

That's exactly what I was assuming as well, but in the most non ambiguous formal scientific language I can utilize...

It ain't so...

I've had the tires side by side and center tread wear aside, the shoulder profiles are significantly different.

Stefan
 
I personally think dragging knee is up to the person not the tires.. One can dragg on any name brand tire. Up to the rider. However this is a great writeup. I finally read the whole feanor post, instead of reading half way and give up.

I am looking for new tires for my track day and PP ct2 seems to be best. I had the pp before and spirited street riding I never had it slipped even at certain knee point.
Just to be safe I'll get the ct2 for 1 day of track.
 
bpowa said:


I had the pp before and spirited street riding I never had it slipped even at certain knee point.
J

I swear that you just had a post a few days ago talking about the front tire slipping on you??...............:wtf
 
Feanor said:
Wait! You edited your reply! Did you add another :wtf

All knowledge is a journey :) I had a Professor at Cal who rolled his eyes at a student behind his back and mumbled he was an idiot because he could not grasp the theory of Quantum Tunneling... Some days you have to buckle down and remember that people aren't born with the knowledge that you struggled to attain at one time...

Help us out here Yody! Ignorance and the ridicule of others is for squids!


:laughing

Stefan

Actually I did edit to add another :wtf, so :wtf

Plain and simple what you are feeling is either an anomaly in the road, or you have cold tires which sounds more likely. My PP's (not 2CT) are very greasy when cold. Then figure that the 2CT have race compound on the edge which is even more prone to the cold tire wiggles, and then the fact that you are getting on an on-ramp which makes me figure that it must be near your house, therefore I doubt the tire is warm enough to warrant "knee dragging lean angles"

Keep riding like this and you are going to destroy that pretty bike with the Ohlins Superforks, Carbon Fiber wheels, and full Akropovic exhaust super-duper commuter bike :wtf :wtf (those were just for you :) )

Feanor let me advise that you read a really good book, that covers all of riding in general, not just track but street as well

Sport Riding Techniques
"How to Develop Real World Skills For Speed, Safety and Confidence on the street and track"
by Nick Ienatsch

I think you need to re-evaluate your street riding
 
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yody said:
I swear that you just had a post a few days ago talking about the front tire slipping on you??...............:wtf

this was not the mich pp. and befor my suspension setting... I have old bridgestone now; pretty good not pp. I'm probably gonna take it to evolution to get it set.

damn talk about trying to bust a chink out.:laughing
 
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bpowa said:
this was not the mich pp. and befor my suspension setting... I have old bridgestone now pretty good nut no t pp. I'm probably gonna take it to evolution to get it set.

damn talk about trying to bust a chink out.:laughing

Chink please :hand :teeth
 
yody said:
Actually I did edit to add another :wtf, so :wtf

Plain and simple what you are feeling is either an anomaly in the road, or you have cold tires which sounds more likely. My PP's (not 2CT) are very greasy when cold. Then figure that the 2CT have race compound on the edge which is even more prone to the cold tire wiggles, and then the fact that you are getting on an on-ramp which makes me figure that it must be near your house, therefore I doubt the tire is warm enough to warrant "knee dragging lean angles"

Keep riding like this and you are going to destroy that pretty bike with the Ohlins Superforks, Carbon Fiber wheels, and full Akropovic exhaust super-duper commuter bike :wtf :wtf (those were just for you :) )

Feanor let me advise that you read a really good book, that covers all of riding in general, not just track but street as well

Sport Riding Techniques
"How to Develop Real World Skills For Speed, Safety and Confidence on the street and track"
by Nick Ienatsch

I think you need to re-evaluate your street riding

I've actually read that, and both the Twist of the wrist books by Code and another very good book called Street Strategies.

I was using the term "knee dragging lean angle" more as it applied to me and is consistent to me, rather than other riders techniques... On this particular turn I have both cheeks off the seat and hook with my outside leg, with centripetal (centrifugal?) force pressing the bottom of my thigh onto the seat. My outside armpit is directly over the gascap, steering with the inside arm, the oustide arm limp and almost dangling. Pressure on the inside peg and leading with the inside shoulder and looking as far around the turn as I can.

My street riding foolhardiness/spiritedness aside. I'm simply trying to solve a riddle... The reasons that you give don't explain why the Pilot Powers I had before did not suffer this particular handling anomaly in the slightest, when brand new or when worn...

Same warmup time, same on ramp, same speed, same temperatures in a comparative average over time, same suspension settings, same rider, same technique, same line thru corner.

If it were a minor handling difference there would be no mystery or desire to solve it, but the handling difference is significant.

Right now from what I've gotten from your posts and others are:

Difference in how quickly tires warm up
Tire profile (my original post)

If anomalies in the road or greasiness of the road were the answer, I would have felt that same thing at least ocassionally on the Pilot powers, and I didn't... The only time I even looked closely enough at the road surface to notice the uneven seams is because the bike was acting different with the new tires and I was ruling out as many variables as I could.

When I noted the road seams, that's what prompted me to look at the tire profiles in comparison more closely...

Believe me, I wouldn't even care and wouldn't bother anyone on the forum if it was a slight difference, but this was a stand up on the pegs and get off the seat mid corner kind of difference...

Oh, and not carbon fiber wheels... Marchesini magnesium... But I do thank you for your responses... Though there are digs in there against me, you offer possible ideas of what it might be :) I didn't miss that part...

Stefan
 
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ok so, how long do those things take to warm up when youre street rding? can a short freeway jaunt warm them up?
 
IMO the mtezler m3 warmup the fastest.. I say 10 min of riding. However the pp once it warm up it is sticky as hell.. I feel guilty at times for riding on freeways:laughing

wasting the middle...
 
Stefan pls look at a good pic of rear tire at lean and speed in a corner. You will see significant squat and sidewall deformation. Contact patch is not determined by static radius but dynamic force.
 
xgambit said:
ok so, how long do those things take to warm up when youre street rding? can a short freeway jaunt warm them up?

I like this kind of specificness! :)

I didn't go into numbing detail as I'm trying to cut down :laughing but as I leave work there is a very large industrial office park complex and I ride around that "block" at moderate speed twice in both directions before hitting the freeway probably a total of about 3-4 miles (not much I know) but consistent with what I did with both the PPs and with the 2CTs...

Stefan
 
afm199 said:
Stefan pls look at a good pic of rear tire at lean and speed in a corner. You will see significant squat and sidewall deformation. Contact patch is not determined by static radius but dynamic force.

This makes alot of sense... I guess my greatest confusion/ disappointment, is that I assumed the 2CTs would be better in all regards than the PPs, and instead I'm liking the PPs for sheer confidence at my level even though the 2CTs feel quicker on the turn in...

So what I'm faced with for whatever reasons are two sets of tires, one set feels far more nimble for changes in direction, but less dynamically stable while in the corner, and the other set is slower to turn in, but very steady and solid in the corners even over rough pavement, or pavement with anomalies.

Though I was hoping the 2CTs would be superior, I like the stable turn feel of the PPs... and as someone said already, they are cheaper :)

Stefan
 
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afm199 said:
Stefan pls look at a good pic of rear tire at lean and speed in a corner. You will see significant squat and sidewall deformation. Contact patch is not determined by static radius but dynamic force.

+100.Like he said..If ya see all the Gp and WSB riders at full lean, their contact patch is based on the amount of force put on the tires..All that said, I ran T-hill and Fernley dragging knee everywhere on the standard PP's and were very predictable, especially when i exited on a tight decreasing radius lefty at Fernley:


then hit the throttle and whipped that bad boy around almost 60 degrees..The PP's were suprisingly predictable and rode it out without any possibility of a highside..Can't imagine how the 2cts feel on a hard exit..Great tires if ya asked me..Both of them..Just be prepared to buy more tires every year since the 2cts do wear more on the side..
 
^^^damn steve.. I had the regualar pp for 4 months. the bt014 for 2 months.. How you get so much life on tires to buy once a year?

dont tell me you take it easy either.:x

cant wait for t-hill.. that map looks awsome:teeth
 
bpowa said:
^^^damn steve.. I had the regualar pp for 4 months. the bt014 for 2 months.. How you get so much life on tires to buy once a year?

dont tell me you take it easy either.:x

cant wait for t-hill.. that map looks awsome:teeth

lol..I meant to say "Prepare yourself to buy MORE tires in a year"(for the 2ct's)..:teeth ..I think my PP's lasted 2800 total miles of street and track riding( of course, the first track day does not count cuz i was in a novice school in Reno/Fernley).That pic is Fernley by the way..here is T-hill(much faster track)You will luv it Larry!!

 
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