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Multiple people stabbed with machete in NY

He (Thomas) attacked Jews because they were Jews.

As for his mental state, he was sane enough to try and destroy blood evidence with bleach he brought with him before driving 25 miles to the Bronx. The victims had fought him off with chairs and other furniture, and they caught his license plate number as he left the scene. A reader on the George Washington Bridge notified NYPD, and they tracked him through Manhattan.
 
Johndicezx9 said:
He (Thomas) attacked Jews because they were Jews.

As for his mental state, he was sane enough to try and destroy blood evidence with bleach he brought with him before driving 25 miles to the Bronx. The victims had fought him off with chairs and other furniture, and they caught his license plate number as he left the scene. A reader on the George Washington Bridge notified NYPD, and they tracked him through Manhattan.
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What are you trying to say?

People don't just see a Jew and decide to try to kill them. There is a process that progressed to the point where they decide to attack people, based upon beliefs and bigotry. People don't necessarily need to be insane to do horrible things, they just have to have strong enough hate in order to believe they are justified in doing it.
 
Just putting a reminder of the facts out there; seems to be question about that floating through the thread.
 
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Climber said:
I would bet a lot that the people who stoke up their anger at Jewish people all know about the ADL.

My point is that the very actions of the ADL to brand absolutely any questioning of the actions of any Jewish person to be Anti-Semitic could be a factor in spurring on some of these groups that hate them.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your last sentence. These people don't suddenly start hating Jewish people, they have probably said bad things for years on end before finally acting. Unfortunately, today's social media allows like-minded people to stoke up their hatred of others that they don't like.
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Frankly why point out that the ADL may be to blame for the crazies coming out and attacking Jews?

Unless you can point to specific examples of the ADL being the impetus for these hate crimes, I think you're way off base.
 
Beanzy said:
Frankly why point out that the ADL may be to blame for the crazies coming out and attacking Jews?

Unless you can point to specific examples of the ADL being the impetus for these hate crimes, I think you're way off base.
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I do too.

There is no question the ADL is very vigilant but they have reasons to be that pre-date the existence of the organization by thousands of years.
 
Beanzy said:
Frankly why point out that the ADL may be to blame for the crazies coming out and attacking Jews?

Unless you can point to specific examples of the ADL being the impetus for these hate crimes, I think you're way off base.
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I'm not saying they are 'to blame', what I am saying is that their zero tolerance approach could be contributing to the flames.

Any added kindling is not helpful, especially when it can be turned around.
 
tzrider said:
I do too.

There is no question the ADL is very vigilant but they have reasons to be that pre-date the existence of the organization by thousands of years.
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Agreed.

I'm not sure the suspect in question had a ton of policy qualms with the state of Israel. Reasonable people are of course free to speak up against the policies of the Israeli government if they disagree with them.

Do we have some documented evidence that the ADL "goes after" people who do just that? If anyone thinks the ADL is overzealous, please explain why. References for your argument would be much appreciated.
 
Brett, as far as I know, the Jewish people are the most persecuted in the history of mankind. Their response to persecution has historically been more passive than it is today.

Since WWII, Israel has set a tone of aggressive response to any threat. The mindset is manifested in their military, in their self defense system and in civic organizations like the ADL. They are arguably better off with this approach.
 
tzrider said:
Brett, as far as I know, the Jewish people are the most persecuted in the history of mankind. Their response to persecution has historically been more passive than it is today.

Since WWII, Israel has set a tone of aggressive response to any threat. The mindset is manifested in their military, in their self defense system and in civic organizations like the ADL. They are arguably better off with this approach.
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I agree 100% about the persecution. I have tried never to even hint that they have not been, and it absolutely sucks that they've had so much of it throughout history, and I know that it didn't start in Germany, what Happened to them in Spain was absolutely terrible as well.

But, what I'm saying is that sometimes when you go overboard in shutting down ANY kind of talk that even hints at criticism, you may be furthering the very thing you are trying to prevent among some groups. If your approach is above reproach, that is one thing, but the ADL sometimes goes overboard and that, IMHO, has potential to provide 'validation' for some of these hate groups, not that they need much.
 
criticism is always a great educator as long as it comes from a reasonable person.
 
Melissa said:
criticism is always a great educator as long as it comes from a reasonable person.
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Feedback from an outsider who has no horse in the race is often a good way of getting an outside perspective.

I just don't understand the hatred of some people towards Jewish people. I don't know what is driving these people, but for some reason they feel like they have a reason, the question is where is it coming from?
 
Jews are perceived as successful, rich and powerful especially in the "Hollywood Liberal" way. There's some envy backed up by biblical interpretations blaming us for murdering Jesus.
 
Beanzy said:
An attack on Jews in the USA is always an anti-Semitic action.
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Yes and no. Hasidic Jews in NY are a very specific urban group and there are issues here that go far beyond Judaism. Berto is correct. If the attack is against this group because of their very specific boundaries, rejection of other community members because they are not Hasidic, and their desire to insulate, set strict boundaries, and resist integrating into the local community, then yes, there are issues. Does that make an attack ok? Of course not.

So it's the old saw: Yes an attack on a Jew is anti semitic by definition, but possibly not by intent. The intent may be an objection to Hasidic practices that impact the local non Hasidic community.

In Israel, the ultra orthodox are often seen as welfare scrounges, lazy, and unwilling to defend their homeland. Only recently have the laws changed to force them to join the armed forces. So, using that metric, the majority of Israeli Jews are anti-semitic.

And I want to remind everyone that the attacks in New York were directed against Hasidim in particular.
 
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Melissa said:
How would the ADL go overboard I wonder?
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Trying to shut down or undermine honest discussions about controversial policies would be my guess. Have critics of Israeli policies towards Palestinians been "harassed (for lack of a better word)" by the ADL?

What actions trigger a response by the ADL?

To me, those are fair questions that do not necessarily make someone an anti-Semite just because they asked them.
 
Some crazies -- and they are, like this guy with the machete -- tend to obsess. I have PTSD and fully understand how the mind just thinks about something like a dog hangs onto a tasty bone. Call it rumination, obessive-compulsive, whatever. But when a person can glom onto one thing -- hate -- they need a target. Jews have historically been scapegoats for Christians for the past two millennia. Marry that hate with the erroneous belief that white Jews are the usurpers to the true black Jews, suck the blood of Christian babies, have all the money, are buying up all the ghetto homes and rehabbing them, are Jews, ad nauseam, and you have crazy black and white non-Jew Jew haters perpetuating horrible crimes against Jews.

To me, Jews are among the smartest and most gifted of musicians, writers, comedians, composers, scientists, medical doctors, inventors. You name the field, a Jew probably made some outstanding contribution to it.
 
Beanzy said:
Some crazies -- and they are, like this guy with the machete -- tend to obsess. I have PTSD and fully understand how the mind just thinks about something like a dog hangs onto a tasty bone. Call it rumination, obessive-compulsive, whatever. But when a person can glom onto one thing -- hate -- they need a target. Jews have historically been scapegoats for Christians for the past two millennia. Marry that hate with the erroneous belief that white Jews are the usurpers to the true black Jews, suck the blood of Christian babies, have all the money, are buying up all the ghetto homes and rehabbing them, are Jews, ad nauseam, and you have crazy black and white non-Jew Jew haters perpetuating horrible crimes against Jews.

To me, Jews are among the smartest and most gifted of musicians, writers, comedians, composers, scientists, medical doctors, inventors. You name the field, a Jew probably made some outstanding contribution to it.
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Hmm. I can't think of one Jewish Pope.
 
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