New tire vs plug/patch

[ST Guy]

And therein lies the rub. How, exactly, can you tell if it's done "right" before you find out the hard way at an inopportune moment?

One must depend upon the experience and expertise of the person doing the repair. (As with most things.) Choose wisely.

And, of course, there are no guarantees.

 

[ST Guy]

Is there a difference between throwing a nail and throwing a plug?

Sure as hell is. A nail creates a hole by splitting the rubber and pushing the rubber aside. When it is removed, the rubber then closes in and though it will leak, it will do so at a relatively slow rate.

When a repair is done, the usual practice is to ream out the hole. This removes material and makes a much larger passage for the air to escape through should the plug come out. A tire that's been repaired with a plug can deflate as fast as a tubed tire. A big difference. And that's one reason plugs (which as we all know are only installed from the outside) are a far, far less reliable repair than a patch.

 

[ST Guy]

I've had a high success rate plugging tires but not a 100% success rate.

From a personal point of view, depending on the nature of the tire damage and remaining tire life, a plug/patch is worth a try.

From a business point of view the reward/risk ratio isn't worth it for me because I don't want to be ThatTireGuy with a disappointed or injured customer if/when the repair fails.

By "...high success rate plugging tires..." do you mean patches installed from the inside? Or plugs installed from the outside?

 

[EastBayDave]

I would say the same also. I've thrown nails at ~100 front and rear, ride it out not a big deal. Never thrown a plug, I don't see why it would be any different

Have you ever had a complete BLOW OUT from speed? Losing a plug would likely cause that cuz it's a big hole? (uh oh, another EBD horror story):

I was taking the 880 to 92wb ramp in Hayward at speed (80ish/guess, we were on our way to Alices early one Sunday morn/flying), when the rear BLEW OUT completely. No gradual leak of air, just BOOM, flat. I was leaned over at max-lean full-throttle in 4th at the exit of the ramp and....

Boom, found myself doing my best Springsteen at the Sacto Mile impression & drifted foot-down at full steering lock across all 3 lanes- only just saving it on the center divide edge of the pavement. Skert the beejesus out of me, & everyone around me (all the cages & my bud were down to 25mph, musta looked spectacular.)

Later we found a big azz 10mm x shank 60mm bolt (w/washer) completely thru sidewall & flat part of the tread (2 holes.) How I didn't bail I don't know. Believe me, you don't want a major blow out, ever. Especially when your hauling butt...take my word on this...

 

[mototireguy]

By "...high success rate plugging tires..." do you mean patches installed from the inside? Or plugs installed from the outside?

For years I used the inside-out Uniseal 250 plugs.

 

[planegray]

I've had a high success rate plugging tires but not a 100% success rate.

From a personal point of view, depending on the nature of the tire damage and remaining tire life, a plug/patch is worth a try.

From a business point of view the reward/risk ratio isn't worth it for me because I don't want to be ThatTireGuy with a disappointed or injured customer if/when the repair fails.

If I ran a motorcycle tire business, I wouldn't have the stomach to install patches OR plugs..... I just don't trust people enough, for them to take responsibility for their decisions.

................
4. Plugs are installed only from the outside of the tire. ...............
5. Patches are installed on the inside of the tire and require that the tire be removed. .........................

 

[ST Guy]

For years I used the inside-out Uniseal 250 plugs.

Those are the best type to use. But then you know your business.

However, I'd stop calling them plugs or calling the process plugging. (Even if part of the process is technically plugging the hole.) What they are are patches and what you're doing is patching. Unfortunately, when the terms "plug" or "plugging" are used, many people immediately think of the plugs one installs from the outside of the tire. And then they tend to think plugs are OK as a permanent repair because "so and so" said plugging or plugs are fine. Many people aren't savvy enough to discern or know the difference. Just sayin'.

 

[ALANRIDER7]

I will plug my tires, I will plug a friends tire, I might even pull over and help some stranded rider and plug their tire.

What if you fuck up?

 

[planegray]

What if you fuck up?

Walk a mile in another man's shoes.. that way you'll be a mile away before he figures out you stole his shoes

 

[ST Guy]

'Just went to the Tech site and they refer to their product as a "combination patch/stem unit". Note that they call them "units" on the box and describe the unit as a patch and stem. No mention of plug. (Probably not done on purpose would be my guess.)

 

[ST Guy]

I've put temporary plugs in my tires, and I helped out a guy once who just bought a bike and got a flat riding it home on a VERY worn tire. But I told him 15 times that the plug could come out at any moment and not to ride over 30 mph and get his ass immediately to a shop for a new tire because the tire was showing cord. (An obvious newbie.)

 

[angelsndevils]

What if you fuck up?

Imposible as I am perfect. OTOH What if... a giant earth quake hits while riding, a soccer mom pulls out in front of you, your motor seizes up at 130 mph, a new dodge blows its 5th auto tranny in front of you in the twisties, a deer jumps out in front of you, some psycho runs up and stabs you with an exacto knife while sitting at a stop light, a ladder flies off somebodys lumber rack in front of you on the freeway? If your worried something bad might happen while riding a bike you might as well just give up riding.

I'm in no way saying that a plug is better than a patch or every plug will hold forever or a pluged tire is as good as new. Just kind of tired of the over dramatic, worst case scenerio, what ifs on every subject. We all know you are very professional in your way of dealing with issues. You don't need to be so harsh with your critisism of the realitys of how the average, budget minded, riders here deal with it by calling us cheap skates and oakies with your cute litte toothless icon. If I won the lottery I'd buy a new tire everytime it got a scratch on it and I'd pay somebody $1000 to change it just to be nice but I havent hit those lucky numbers yet and like alot of the people on here will need to make that $200 tire go as long as possible. Alot of people don't have a tire machine and good tools so paying somebody $100/hr to remove the rim, dismount the tire, patch, remount, rebalance and reinstall on the bike is something you save for a new tire. At my 4x4 truck shop I have my stand available. If a guy comes in and wants to do all the labor I'll let him use my machine and patch his tire just to help my moto-brothers out. Motorcycles are a source of fun for me not a money making oppourtunity.

 

[Lorry]

What if you fuck up?

Drive a car - its safer.

 

[matt1216]

I have 2 plugs in my rear tire right now, one since Sept. One time I rode all the way back from Alberta Canada on a plugged tire.

It's a risk and if I was rich I'd never do it, but I'm poor and cheap

 

[ALANRIDER7]

I have 2 plugs in my rear tire right now, one since Sept. One time I rode all the way back from Alberta Canada on a plugged tire.

It's a risk and if I was rich I'd never do it, but I'm poor and cheap

Congratulations.

 

[WWWobble]

I have 2 plugs in my rear tire right now, one since Sept. One time I rode all the way back from Alberta Canada on a plugged tire.

It's a risk and if I was rich I'd never do it, but I'm poor and cheap

I'd say this thread is wandering itself into a discussion of "risk management."

The fact that you made it from Alberta on a plugged tire and the fact that you claim to be poor and cheap has nothing to do with whether or not a plugged tire can or will fail.

It has much more to do with your view toward managing risk.

No insult meant here. I would ride to the grocery store on a plugged tire and not worry about it much as well. And if it was a question of a plugged tire or no tire, well.... I'm a rider. But I wouldn't head off to say, Alberta on a plugged tire if I could help it.

A plug cuts your margin of safety by some percentage. We can argue about the amount of the percentage cut. But we cannot argue the direction.

WWWobble

 

[JPK]

Imposible as I am perfect. OTOH What if... a giant earth quake hits while riding, a soccer mom pulls out in front of you, your motor seizes up at 130 mph, a new dodge blows its 5th auto tranny in front of you in the twisties, a deer jumps out in front of you, some psycho runs up and stabs you with an exacto knife while sitting at a stop light, a ladder flies off somebodys lumber rack in front of you on the freeway? If your worried something bad might happen while riding a bike you might as well just give up riding.

I'm in no way saying that a plug is better than a patch or every plug will hold forever or a pluged tire is as good as new. Just kind of tired of the over dramatic, worst case scenerio, what ifs on every subject. We all know you are very professional in your way of dealing with issues. You don't need to be so harsh with your critisism of the realitys of how the average, budget minded, riders here deal with it by calling us cheap skates and oakies with your cute litte toothless icon. If I won the lottery I'd buy a new tire everytime it got a scratch on it and I'd pay somebody $1000 to change it just to be nice but I havent hit those lucky numbers yet and like alot of the people on here will need to make that $200 tire go as long as possible. Alot of people don't have a tire machine and good tools so paying somebody $100/hr to remove the rim, dismount the tire, patch, remount, rebalance and reinstall on the bike is something you save for a new tire. At my 4x4 truck shop I have my stand available. If a guy comes in and wants to do all the labor I'll let him use my machine and patch his tire just to help my moto-brothers out. Motorcycles are a source of fun for me not a money making oppourtunity.

Seems to me you're confusing two different arguments. You may choose to ride on a plugged tire because you don't want to spend the money for a new one. This does not make riding on a plugged tire an inherently safe or smart choice. You're just choosing to accept a higher level of risk.

As you pointed out, riding is inherently a risky hobby. There are plenty of risks we can't do anything about without quitting riding altogether, but there are plenty of risks we can eliminate. Why on earth would I choose to introduce additional risks that are completely avoidable? Folks with a lot of experience with tires are saying that a plug is not a safe permanent repair, and yet you choose to dismiss this criticism as melodramatic because it's financially inconvenient for you.

 

[dtrides]

Day before attending probably the #1 riding school on the planet I noticed a finish nail in my new tire I had installed just days before on my bike for the school.
I arrived early knowing they also sell tires at the school and explained at tech my situation and the need for a new tire. They send me over to their head mechanic who inspects my tire. Mind you the nail was near middle of tire but he says "no need for a tire , I will plug it while you are in being briefed. I patch our bike all the time unless it is in the side wall or other bad spot". Obviously they run their tires harder than most folks do on the street and don't think the instructors would needlessly put themselves in harms way.
I have personally plugged several tires where the nail (drill bit in one case!) penetrated the center portion of the tread with the mushroom style plugs with 100% success. The rope style..not so much.
Alan, how many plugged (or patched) tires have you seen fail (not just slowly lose air).? Just curious.
DT

 

[angelsndevils]

Actually if you read all my posts you will see that I started out stating my opinion on the question that was asked. This turned into yet another attack from the new Alan. That's when I got off course in trying to explain why some riders cannot just run out and buy a new tire or pay $75-100 to get a patch done if they can find a place that will do one. The old Alan was a very helpful nice person who I looked up to for advise and knowledge. Now it just seems like he is Mr grumpy pants and looks for any chance to jump on people and make them feel stupid or inferior. It's getting old. I don't want to be that guy that argues a point for 10 pages so I'm just going to shut up now. Sorry for getting off topic and I apologize to all for the inconvenience.

 

[budman]

My life is worth new rubber. Having had a tire blow is a freak out moment. Never want to take the chance again.


To get me 30 miles home crawling at 55 after an flat McKay.

That is just me though.