Newbie - braking with front and rear?

[rider101]

Ok I'm going to sound like a dumbass newbie, but what do you guys mean in re: to blipping the throttle?

get a new bike with slipper clutch, you won't have to learn how to blip the throtle. otherwise, your rear end will step out of line somedays. and we all know the consequences, low-sided @ low speed and high-sided @ high speed

 

[Burning1]

get a new bike with slipper clutch, you won't have to learn how to blip the throtle. otherwise, your rear end will step out of line somedays. and we all know the consequences, low-sided @ low speed and high-sided @ high speed

Technology should supplement skill, not supplant it.

 

[11B]

11B, in my experience the rear brake is very valuable in the rain as a traction feeler -- I'd rather lock up the rear than the front.

With my BMW, the front suspension is designed in such a way that that the bike will skitter and lock the front wheel before the rear will lift -- this isn't a complaint about the BMW, in fact it can stop as hard or harder than most sport bikes. But, because of the suspension and the weight distribution, using both brakes will provide better stopping power in pretty much any situation than using the rear alone.

Further argument: if a rider hits a patch of gravel, oil, or goes off road, being able to use the rear, and to modulate both brakes becomes invaluable.

In my experience, it's possible to ride on good clean pavement without the rear brake -- but if I always ride that way, I never develop the skill to use the rear brake -- I won't have that skill when I most need it.

Of course the rear brake is good for the rain, which is also mentioned in the link I provided - but then, riding in the rain and emergency and or track braking are quite different circumstances (both of which I personally choose to use both brakes).

So, once again, as I already stated, I feel the rear brake causes more grief than it helps. To each their own. Safety first.

A few examples of the thousands with the rear brake having a detrimental impact on riding:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303488

Their was also a recent death of a forum rider who locked up his brakes, R.I.P..

Of course, each and every rider should continually strive to improve their skill but each one of us also needs to know our current limitations, and many, many, many times, the rear brake can become part of the problem instead of part of the solution. That means, for some people, they should stick to "practicing" the technique until they have gained enough skill to "implement" it when it counts.

For the most part, do you guys use only the front brake when riding?

Some people have noted that their are different types of circumstances encountered as you ride so I'll update my overall answer.

Normal conditions - 10 mph and under rear brake, everything else Front.

Rain - more reliance on rear brake - better to lose the rear end than front in the rain, plus I want the most available traction for the front tire as possible. The front tire only has so much available traction which is even more important in the rain. Obviously, the harder the front end brakes the less available traction we have, and when you combine that with a heavily loaded and turned over front tire - disastrous things can happen, especially in the rain.

Emergency stopping or the track - both brakes but even then, you're only on the rear brake for a very short period before the front end becomes fully loaded.

 

[Burning1]

It sounds like we agree that the rear brake is a valuable tool, when used correctly.

In your opinion, when should a rider start focusing how to use the rear brake? What suggestions would you offer to a new rider looking to use both brakes correctly? How would you suggest a new rider practice, so that they can use the rear brake without thinking about it, in a demanding situation?

Surely we both agree that the front brake can supply 100% of the required stopping force in ideal conditions. How should an average rider brake under normal, relaxed riding conditions when they aren't demanding 100%?

 

[11B]

In your opinion, when should a rider start focusing how to use the rear brake? What suggestions would you offer to a new rider looking to use both brakes correctly?

How should an average rider brake under normal, relaxed riding conditions when they aren't demanding 100%?

In general there is no perfect answer. It's all personal preference. I used industrial parking lots and long visible stretches of empty rural/mountain roads. I've got buddies who run high 190's at T-Hill - some of them only use the front, while others use both, sometimes using the rear quite liberally to slow down the rear tire below engine speed to help push the rear out and get quicker turns in slower, sharper corners (not for me!)

The best answer is one that the rider can consistantly be safe when using.

 

[VtownMac]

I'm only committed enough to have scanned over this thread. Did anyone mention when doing a hard stop not to worry about downshifting? I can just see noobs trying to multitask that in an emergency. Just pull in the clutch and brake hard.

 

[Enchanter]

I'm only committed enough to have scanned over this thread. Did anyone mention when doing a hard stop not to worry about downshifting? I can just see noobs trying to multitask that in an emergency. Just pull in the clutch and brake hard.

Then what shall we do when the truck behind us cannot stop in the same distance? How shall we quickly move out of the way?

 

[HoL]

great post. i'm pretty new as well and had similar questions and concerns. I ended up getting a bike with a slipper clutch due to the downshift concerns i had.

Also, when riding, i noticed that when i only used the front brake, i would constantly smash my crotch. i started forcing myself to use more rear braking, and now no longer have a smashed crotch.

 

[jraice]

Also, when riding, i noticed that when i only used the front brake, i would constantly smash my crotch. i started forcing myself to use more rear braking, and now no longer have a smashed crotch.

Unless your bike REALLY dives on the front, I would say this right here is a big clue that you are not braking as hard with the rear/front as compared to just the front.

The smashing comes from the negative acceleration, you feel it less when using the rear because your not stopping as hard.

 

[Enchanter]

Also, when riding, i noticed that when i only used the front brake, i would constantly smash my crotch. i started forcing myself to use more rear braking, and now no longer have a smashed crotch.

This is more likely due to your overly rapid application of the front brake. It is common for novice/new riders to grab the front brake. It takes a while to develop the skill to squeeeeze it instead.

 

[ucb]

get a new bike with slipper clutch, you won't have to learn how to blip the throtle. otherwise, your rear end will step out of line somedays. and we all know the consequences, low-sided @ low speed and high-sided @ high speed

It's still very easy to step out the rear, even with a slipper clutch.

 

[VtownMac]

Then what shall we do when the truck behind us cannot stop in the same distance? How shall we quickly move out of the way?

Edit: I should have said, "don't worry about blipping."

Well, you don't blip the throttle, you just tap-tap-tap down as you're braking with the clutch in. Mind you, this an emergency stop.

 

[Enchanter]

Well, you don't blip the throttle, you just tap-tap-tap down as you're braking with the clutch in. Mind you, this an emergency stop.

I completely agree with you. I wasn't sure what you meant when you said "don't worry about downshifting" in your earlier post. This clears that up

 

[11B]

Also, when riding, i noticed that when i only used the front brake, i would constantly smash my crotch. i started forcing myself to use more rear braking, and now no longer have a smashed crotch.

Haha and ouch, lol! I'd suggest more knee/upper leg squeezing on the tank to lock yourself in place which means you need a strong core too (abs/back). This will also ensure the least possible amount of pressure/weight on the bars for better handling, easier riding, and the ability to relax and breathe freely, lol .

 

[jraice]

Haha and ouch, lol! I'd suggest more knee/upper leg squeezing on the tank to lock yourself in place which means you need a strong core too (abs/back). This will also ensure the least possible amount of pressure/weight on the bars for better handling, easier riding, and the ability to relax and breathe freely, lol .

I would also look into some stomp grips or tech spec pads!