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nsr250

R

RichieB

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Pacifica
Moto(s)
1
I may have the oppritunity to get a (street legal)95 NSR 250 for cheap. I was curious if it would/could be a competitive race bike or is it too different from a race only NSR ? What are the differences ? Any other info or links you could give me would be appreciated.


PTM
 
You can make an NSR VERY competitive by replacing stock NSR bits with bling RS250 bits. :D
 
if you had an 110 lbs. rider and the bike had an f3 kitted motor on it... it's possilbe top 6. but the way the 250sb guys are riding this year it's possible top 3.
 
What's an F3 kitted motor? And does that comment mean that the 250 SBK are going slow this year?
 
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hEY rICHIEB,

If you decide not to buy that NSR, pass on the information to me. I've been looking for a decent priced NSR for quite some time.
 
hahahahaha!

Racerx said:
What's an F3 kitted motor? And does that comment mean that the 250 SBK are going slow this year?
Click to expand...

Relax Jove! Don't mean anything by the 250sb going slower this year! I know your fling!!! If only all the other tzr's running in tip top conditions our class would be more fun instead of the "Jove show!" Feel like Carillo came back to race or something. Are you gonna hand out more ass platters in t-hill? (hehehehe)

btw, f3 kit is the Honda's anwser to TZ/r motors, very rare to find.
 
Re: hahahahaha!

alphaq said:
btw, f3 kit is the Honda's anwser to TZ/r motors, very rare to find.
Click to expand...

How much horsepower do those rulebook-exploiting TZR250 motors with TZ250 engine internals make?
 
for some good information on NSR's, visit http://www.nsrworld.com. Andy has setup a good website, with very detailed information. I have done some work on this website, as well as I host the web forums for him. Also, micapeak has an email list just for NSR's. You can subscribe by sending an email to listproc@micapeak.com, no title, and a body/message of "SUBSCRIBE NSR250 yourname".

Also, about the F3 kitted engines. This was special parts from HRC for NSR's. These parts are cool, expensive, and add some power, but nothing compared to the power that the TZR's are capable of making in 250SB trim.

Dylan has a rather well put together MC18, that he has exploted the rules while building (just lilke the TZR guys), and for an older bike, he rides the hell out of it. Finishing top five even.

My NSR has F3 parts, but from my finishes, you can see a built engine does nothing when the pilot can't make it go fast. Don't worry about making a bullet NSR. Get one, do a top end, check the bottom end, possible clean up the barrels, some good exhaust, get the suspension setup, and learn to ride it.

Once you are at the point that the bike won't go any faster, and you know you can do more, then work on the engine.

Either that, or do what I did. Spend the money, and get a Honda RS250, and gain 2 seconds on your lap times in a couple sessions :)
 
Yup, NSR, RS Priller, TZR, and RGV's are just training bikes for "the Real Deal" RS250 Hondas and TZ250 Yamahas. :thumbup
 
I'm not going to get heated up on the net to much but I think your wrong about the times of the 250 class. The last 2 years has seen lap times that were unheard of before. I like Joe and Gram a lot, but they never did the lap times the top 5 are doing now. The pace is much faster. And the times have always droped after the top five every year.
I also think the TZRs are misunderstood. Good bikes, but I'd much reather ride my Aprilia, but the Aprilia just weights too much. The difference is only a couple a HP, and at T-hill about 2 secounds a lap. M. Aaron and myself have both gone faster and passed Joe for the lead on our Aprilias And as Gram did a 2:01 at BW , Brian Bartlow ripped off a 1:57 in that race on his Aprilia. The built Aprilias now are also running TZ piston, carbs, heads, and deck specs. As for the difference in motor internals between a TZ and TZR, It's a 2 stroke, there isn't anything inside the motor. Crank, (not a big help) pistons, (one ring insted of 2). The big diff. is ign. and carbs. That's were your going to get you your best gains. Gram's bike (which I own now) has a TZR ign. but bigger carbs then me. And everyone that rode that bike kicked ass-
The one thing that made me faster this year was Gerry straighten my frame. That was the best thing I've ever done to that bike to make it faster.
Included is the Dyno sheets for the 2004 champion AFM 250 Superbike bike. Not a lot of power if you ask me, but then again I must be exploiting the rules that were design mostly for this bike and not a stock 250 streetbike. Nobody calls the well built 600 or open Superbike cheater bikes.

1235574-dyno.jpg
 
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It's not cheating to build the best bike you can under a given set of rules. It's called CLEVER. ;)

Thanks for the dyno chart, I have been curious about the TZ/TZR hybrids for a long time.

A few years ago (think it was '01) I was standing on the grass bank above the old full-length T11 at Sears during a 250SB race. Every time Carillo would come out of there, he would pull a massive power wheelie. I asked a total stranger standing near me what the hell bike was that, he said it was an "TZR250 with TZ250 engine bits, with 75-80 hp."
 
I'd would be fair to say Joe's makes an honest 75hp or a hair more. He has been racing that class since pre-'91 I belive. And he's really good at wheelies. I raced him today on XR 100s. He kicked my ass while wheeling with one hand.
 
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My knowledge of two-stroke tuning wouldn't fill a thimble. How can his bike make 75 hp vs your 64 hp?

I love the two-stroke streetbikes. I used to live in Japan, in southwest Tokyo. Around the corner from my house was a house with a small shed out front. Under that shed was a really nice TZR250, it was the model with the exhausts exiting the tail section (reverse cylinder I think, '89-'90?).

I walked past that TZR a hundred times during the four years I lived in Tokyo. Never once did I see it moved, the tires had gone flat and it was covered with dust. But it looked bone stock, with all the plastic and none of it damaged.

Right before I left Japan in 2000 and moved here, I finally couldn't stand it anymore. I went and tried to find the owner so I could try and buy it. Turns out the house was the TZR owner's grandma's house, she said he had moved out a long time ago but didn't want to sell it. She wouldn't give me his contact info either. Damn! I really wanted that TZR, other than being dirty it looked great.

While in Tokyo I bought a '90 NSR250R streetbike, had it for 2 years. The previous owner was a part-time contracted Honda racer, except he raced "gymkhana" instead of road courses. Their gymkhana is basically a tight course with cones in a giant parking lot.

This guy lived and breathed NSR250s. A freaking NSR tuning genius. He had figured out how to alter the ignition to get rid of the Japan-market power restriction. But that's nothing new, M-Max and others sell those for 4,000 yen, you just plug them in (not for the '934 and later MC28 though).

He went one better by modifying the CDI on my bike, with a laptop. I have no idea how he did it. On his racebike, he went even further by installing a multi-position switch so he could select various ignition curves on the fly.

He told me the stock MC21 expansion chambers were actually pretty good, as long as you removed an internal restrictor. This is the NSR I inherited from him.

So it had altered stock pipes and altered CDI, with stock airbox and stock jetting. And a 300kph speedo to replace the 180kph speedo. Other than that it looked and sounded like any other NSR buzzing around (there are 20 NSRs for every one TZR in Tokyo).

But when I had it dynoed, the Japanese dyno operator almost fell down. It made 60 hp at the rear wheel. He looked at me, looked back at the stock pipes, then shook his head. He said he had never seen an NSR with stock pipes make 60 hp before. Could've been a "downhill dyno," who knows?

I rode the hell out of that NSR, but only on the street. One time I did a long day ride with some friends, I ended up riding that NSR over 700 kilometers in one day. I have never been so glad to get off a motorcycle.

During that ride I had a chance to do some impromtu drag races against my skinny Japanese friend on his NSR250SP. My R model (poor man's NSR) thumped that SP model like a drum about 4 times. Man, he was pissed. Those magnesium wheels, dry clutch, and close-ratio transmission didn't do much good against my homeboy-modified NSR250R. The R model had the least bells and whistles of the NSR family, in ascending order it was R, SE and SP.

He wanted to swap bikes immediately, which we did. His bike felt flat compared to mine.

I don't pretend to understand any of this, like I said I do not have any two-stroke tuning experience. I just know my NSR was freaking fast, thanks to some kind of black magic performed by the previous owner.

Those were the days!
 
Rick,

Most bikes in the Jpn market all had restrictions. Honda made theirs in the PGM unit. This made it rather easy to derestrict. There are two restrictions on the NSR. The first is the overall speed restriction. The M-Max box, and others remove this restriction. The second that Honda put into the bike was they restricted the ignition in 4th, 5th, and 6th. This limited the overall power/speed it would make at power. The easy fix for this is to rewire the GPS for those gears, and fake the PGM to think it's still in third gear, opening up the ignition for all gears.

The standard mods to the stock pipes are a little labor intensive, but for people racing the bikes in production classes, it's the way to go. Basically, cut the chambers open on the seams, remove all internal baffeling, etc... weld the chambers back up.

With all that, and a lightened flywheel, with a slight advanced curve, some inner engine tunning (porting), a set of RS250 carbs, and you can make a good 65 RWHP no problem. The MC28 has no reason to do most of this. Get a good HRC wiring harness, and the PGM IV cards, and you get the ignition mods you need. There are four cards in all, with different ignition curves. This makes it easy to open the bike up to it's full potential.

From there you can get into bolting some RS250 barrels onto the case, and run RS250 pistons and top ends, a bigger radiator, some good pipes, remove airbox, etc... and you can get close to 70 HP with little effort.

Of course your still riding on a bike that has suspension issues, and brake issues, so you need to look into that. Once you get the bike all setup, you could have an NSR that could be very competitive in 250SB. It's all about how much you want to spend, and how much time you got. I think the TZR's are easier to make go fast, and the suspension brakes are better out of the box. That is why you see more of them. The Aprilias are cheap, and easy to get (thanks to them being brought in to the states). The RGV's, well I think their just rare in general.

Thanks,
 
Man, all that stuff makes my head hurt! I found it less complicated and much less expensive to get an old 1987 GSXR750 frame and start pulling in ebay parts to build a racebike. ;)
 
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1235574-dyno.jpg
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Hey Jove! WTH is this? are you sandbagging! You gotta have more horses than that...:laughing where's the latest dyno w/ the 80 ponies!
 
They must be in your garage, because if I every saw 80 horse power I would be on somebody elses bike. I've been saying for years, it's not the bike it's the rider in that class. Nobody has every seen my bike lift the front wheel (except the wheelie hill at BW) because it just dosen't have the power. Maybe you can come over and show me how to get some serious power out of my motor
 
I don't know what super fast dynos are out there, because if I remember right, Jason Disalvo's A kiited factory Honda was making 86HP. That was the highest for any of the 250's. Maybe I need one of those special Dynos to get rid of this horse power envy
 
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