Police Motorcycle Training

[beginner]

Beginner: All of your training (in the tight "patterns") should be done in 1st gear,, as slow as you can possibly go. The slower/tighter you can complete a turn,, the more control you have over the bike. If you can do it at 2 mph,, 7mph is a breeze. All of our students are required to be extremely proficient at doing lock to lock turns. Most (if not all) of the Police MC patterns require this skill. Getting your eyes waaay ahead of you is paramount in developing this skill.

Take a look at my avatar <---. That is me in Oakland last year. My eyes are out in front of me and had been so prior to that turn. My body is actually unwinding around my head. The turn I am in currently was initiated a looong time ago when I first visually picked up the cone way before I got there. As I rotate around that cone my head will start turning right as I approach the next cone.

Thanks 5MARY4, I can keep a fairly straight line at 1.5 mph and slower but the minimum speed I can do tight turns, including figure 8s, so far, is about 4 mph in first gear. (I have to use a gps for speed. It is good for straight lines but not reliable for turning exercises.)

I started on the bike 5 months ago. I ride 2 hours a day, about 280 hours so far, more than half of that in a parking lot. There are noticable changes in balancing and handling ability at about 2 week intervals but I assume the learning curve is years, not weeks or months.

I'll spend some more time on 1st gear turns and see if I can get them below 4 mph. Can you suggest a remedial exercise for developing locked turns? (If I had to guess I'd say stovepipe is doing his lock-to-lock figure 8s in second gear at something over 4 mph.)

Thanks again.

 

[5MARY4]

Thanks 5MARY4, I can keep a fairly straight line at 1.5 mph and slower but the minimum speed I can do tight turns, including figure 8s, so far, is about 4 mph in first gear. (I have to use a gps for speed. It is good for straight lines but not reliable for turning exercises.)

I started on the bike 5 months ago. I ride 2 hours a day, about 280 hours so far, more than half of that in a parking lot. There are noticable changes in balancing and handling ability at about 2 week intervals but I assume the learning curve is years, not weeks or months.

I'll spend some more time on 1st gear turns and see if I can get them below 4 mph. Can you suggest a remedial exercise for developing locked turns? (If I had to guess I'd say stovepipe is doing his lock-to-lock figure 8s in second gear at something over 4 mph.)

Thanks again.

From what it looked like to me,, Stovepipe is in 1st gear.

For your full locked turns: First, no brakes. You don't need them and they are only going to hinder your progress. Our school is a "no brake school". Trailbraking will result in dismissal. There is a time and place for trail braking. But not during training. Use your clutch to control your MC. Slightly elevate your RPMs and use the "grey area" of the clutch to maintain control. While in the short cones, my clutch is NEVER fully in or out. It is always somewhere in between. If you are trying to slow down in the patterns, use just enough clutch to keep the MC upright. Any more than that just adds speed. Lastly (for now) get that head around. While still in the left hand portion of your turn (just after apex) start turning your head to the right. As you reach the transition portion, your head should be seeing the tail light (peripherally) with your chin resting on your right shoulder. Think bike going left,, eyes turned way right. Now turn the bars smooth and quick. Be careful

 

[beginner]

no brakes... Use your clutch to control your MC... Lastly (for now) get that head around...Be careful

Thanks again, I've never used brakes in turning exercises. The only exception is a 2' offset cone weave when the MC is going down a slope in the parking lot--a few taps to keep the speed down.

I can't yet do tight circles or figure 8s below 4 mph because of balance issues, regardless of how I use the clutch. I'll work on that more and see how it goes.

Eyes are important in a lot of sports. I know that and work on it.

I'm careful but I assumed there would be falls and there have been, 8 so far, every one a precious gift of knowledge. Only one of them was on pavement, in my practice parking lot, when the front wheel slid out on a cup of silica beads spread over a couple square feet. They were put there by a road painting truck that stopped for lunch and forgot to turn off the feeder that adds the beads to the paint. I'll take responsibility because I noticed the white-ish spot and could have hand checked it before starting practice. (If you notice a road painting truck parked for lunch I'd suggest you check to see if the bead feeder is turned off and if they dumped any of that stuff in an unsafe manner write them a ticket--please.)

 

[silversvs]

So when is LPD going to give a civilian class??

Motorcycle safety is a big issue nationally and at the state level.

LPD is leading the charge in trying to bring safety awareness to the community.

Some type of civilian riding/training/assessment course is in the works. We are not sure how we are going to pull it off but it is a hot topic of conversation for us right now.

BARF and 1Rider will be at Granada High School on Thursday 11/13 for a lunch time M/C safety awareness demonstration.

 

[silversvs]

Patrick,,

Good to hear from you again. Redding was an absolute blast. RPD holds a great event. Our Unit (SSD) did very well.

Beginner: I hope my tone does not sound too harsh,, again I'm not trying to be overly critical, just helpful. All of your training (in the tight "patterns") should be done in 1st gear,, as slow as you can possibly go. The slower/tighter you can complete a turn,, the more control you have over the bike. If you can do it at 2 mph,, 7mph is a breeze. All of our students are required to be extremely proficient at doing lock to lock turns. Most (if not all) of the Police MC patterns require this skill. Getting your eyes waaay ahead of you is paramount in developing this skill.

Take a look at my avatar <---. That is me in Oakland last year. My eyes are out in front of me and had been so prior to that turn. My body is actually unwinding around my head. The turn I am in currently was initiated a looong time ago when I first visually picked up the cone way before I got there. As I rotate around that cone my head will start turning right as I approach the next cone.

Yeah, but can you do it on a real man's bike? 875 lbs of Harley!!!

 

[beginner]

For your full locked turns:

I focused on full lock circles for the past 2 days in the parking lot. Without some tips or tricks I won't be doing them in the forseeable future. I can circle the bike easily with the steering bar a fraction of an inch from the stops but the minute I leave the steering against the stop the bike leans inward and I have to catch the bike with a foot. It feels like I should be able to keep everything in balance with upper body weight but my balancing aptitude is not there yet.

I have to doubt my observation that stovepipe is in second gear because I have to be in first gear to attempt locked circles. I wonder if stovepipe is using the rear brake in his locked circles.

 

[stovepipe]

I have to doubt my observation that stovepipe is in second gear because I have to be in first gear to attempt locked circles. I wonder if stovepipe is using the rear brake in his locked circles.

Well I use to feather my rear brake (sometimes).
Those vids were made before I became enlightened. I have since winged myself off of the “trail braking” technique. Thanks to a conversation I had with 5Mary4 where he gave me some guidance on how to do this. It's actually easier to manipulate your clutch than constantly feathering your rear brake. Trail-Braking for there situations seems now to be counter intuitive. Knowing where your friction zone is IMO the best way to maintain control.
However, I know there are still some motor instructors who teach the trail-braking method. It’s all subjective.

btw
I think it’s easier to do those slow speed maneuvers/transitions on a harley then say a bike like mine. Only because the cg is different and your kind of sitting behind your knees.
I know this because I was showing a friend of mine who has an hd road king. Not sure what year it is but its burgundy. I could do the eliminator on his bike no problemo.
He didn’t think I could do it. When I got back on my bike, it was like I never rode before. Couldn’t believe the difference.

Beginner,

Keep practicing, you'll get there.

 

[beginner]

Well I use to feather my rear brake (sometimes).
Those vids were made before I became enlightened. I have since winged myself off of the “trail braking” technique. Thanks to a conversation I had with 5Mary4 where he gave me some guidance on how to do this.

I think it’s easier to do those slow speed maneuvers/transitions on a harley then say a bike like mine. Only because the cg is different and your kind of sitting behind your knees.

Keep practicing, you'll get there.

Thanks stovepipe, My pattern seems to be 2 hours of riding a day with half of that doing exercises. (When I realized riding is addictive I decided to be addicted to skill instead of miles. I think this can be true for any rider who does enough practice to see progress.) As mentioned before, there's no way I'll be doing your full lock figure 8s, with or without brakes, anytime soon, unless there is a remedial exercise to build towards it I haven't discovered.

I ride a 234 pound, 300cc bike but it has a tall seat, 36.5 inches. Never-the-less, when I put my beginner backside on the seat for the first time it seemed to weigh 10,000 pounds and have the power of 4 diesel locomotives. I stopped making scary-throttle-mistakes months ago and sometimes the bike seems light as a feather now.

How long did you have to ride--months, years, whatever--before your balancing abilities were good enough to learn full lock circles?

Thanks again.

 

[5MARY4]

Thanks stovepipe, My pattern seems to be 2 hours of riding a day with half of that doing exercises. (When I realized riding is addictive I decided to be addicted to skill instead of miles. I think this can be true for any rider who does enough practice to see progress.) As mentioned before, there's no way I'll be doing your full lock figure 8s, with or without brakes, anytime soon, unless there is a remedial exercise to build towards it I haven't discovered.

I ride a 234 pound, 300cc bike but it has a tall seat, 36.5 inches. Never-the-less, when I put my beginner backside on the seat for the first time it seemed to weigh 10,000 pounds and have the power of 4 diesel locomotives. I stopped making scary-throttle-mistakes months ago and sometimes the bike seems light as a feather now.

How long did you have to ride--months, years, whatever--before your balancing abilities were good enough to learn full lock circles?

Thanks again.

Usually a bike going into the ground is one of two things (or a combination). Eyes went down or the clutch went in (or some of both). Try doing your turns with less MC lean angle (maintain full lock tho). Keep your eyes up and find the tail light. Maintain just enough engine RPM to keep the MC from stalling,, about 2k or so. To get the bike to lean over a little more,, pull away a "little" power by pulling in the clutch a little. All of the clutch manipulation is done in fractions of an inch. These are VERY minor inputs. Counterbalance your body in relation to the amount of lean angle you induce into the MC.

For reference only,, our motor school is two weeks long, week 1 is all short cone work, about 50 hours or so. Week 2 is primarily long day rides. Prior to motor school, we provide one to two weeks of "pre-training" in short cone work. After motor school, a new rider spends two weeks (minimum) with a CMTO on the road. So in the course of the first three weeks, a new motor spends about 120-150 hrs on the bike,, riding constantly,, under close supervision and constant instructor input. By midweek of week 1 of motor school,, our goal is to have the student riding the patterns side saddle,, or with an intructor as a passenger,, or over 2x4's,, with cones on their head,, or while throwing things at the bike,, or a combo of some of these things. Our people should leave our facility with COMPLETE control of the MC. A foot down or a bike down after Wed of week 1 is cause for dismissal from motor school.

Silvr: OH REALLY ?????

 

[silversvs]

I think it’s easier to do those slow speed maneuvers/transitions on a harley then say a bike like mine.

Its all about practicing and having good technique.

I ride a Road King, but have had the opportunity to ride the BMW 1200 and 1150 as well as the Honda ST1300 in the cone patterns. I also ride my FJR1300 in the patterns. All of them are easy to ride as long as you have good head and eyes and smooth clutch throttle.

Personally I think the BMW is easier to ride fast in the patterns and more fun to flick through the turns. You just have to be comfortable and confident in letting the bike "fall" into the turns and knowing that keeping the power on will keep the bike upright while carving a tight turn. Check out some of 5Mary4's pictures from a variety of the motor competition threads and you will see the bike at some extreme lean angles.

Check out the lean angle in the third pattern of this video............... schweet!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i9aL4AwzUM&feature=channel

 

[beginner]

Usually a bike going into the ground is one of two things (or a combination). Eyes went down or the clutch went in (or some of both). Try doing your turns with less MC lean angle (maintain full lock tho). Keep your eyes up and find the tail light. Maintain just enough engine RPM to keep the MC from stalling,, about 2k or so. To get the bike to lean over a little more,, pull away a "little" power by pulling in the clutch a little. All of the clutch manipulation is done in fractions of an inch. These are VERY minor inputs. Counterbalance your body in relation to the amount of lean angle you induce into the MC.

For reference only,, our motor school is two weeks long,

All of my falls were in the catagory of failure-to-observe-change-in-surface-conditions. All were at slow speed and all but one was off road. I got bumped and bruised but nothing worse than I got from 30 years with horses and 10 years inline road skating.

In the full locked turn practice I've tried reducing lean angle by moving my upper body weight more to the inside of the turn, no luck yet. I think that maneuver is waiting for motor balance skills that just aren't there yet. The other possibility is the geometry of my bike makes it harder. The steering range is 90 degrees and the wheel base is 56 inches. A longer wheel base and shorter steering range would make full lock turns easier but I should probably be able to do them anyway--eventually.

I might survive your motor school if I started at my present skill level but as the rank beginner I was 5 months ago there would have been no chance. And I have no experience with busy streets. To get to one of those I'd have to ride 30 miles, something I haven't felt the need to do.

(Silver thanks for posting that video.)

 

[5MARY4]

Beginner: Your upper body should be to the outside of the turn,, hence the term counterbalance.

<<<<------ My upper body in this pic is actually a little too far to the inside of this turn,, I'm leaning with the bike a little too much.

Silvr:

 

[beginner]

Beginner: Your upper body should be to the outside of the turn,, hence the term counterbalance.

I know what you are talking about and I did not mean anything different. Counterbalancing was the most important discovery I made in this first summer of riding. I didn't really get it until about 200 hours. I love the feel of counterbalancing in turns.

In locked turns steering is no longer available to influence the lean of the bike. What's left is power, brake, and upper body. You advise avoiding the brake so that leaves power and upper body. Since my bike always leans inward soon after the steering is locked I tried balancing the bike by using my upper body more--which hasn't worked so far. I can stop the lean of the bike with power to the rear wheel but that is harder to fine tune than the position of my upper body.

 

[moto-rama]

Runouts are available from private partys,auctions and Dealerships like A&S BMW in Roseville I believe . . . not sure about the price though but a Bmw RT1100 or better yet RT1150 would be a start . . .

Good Luck

You might get yourself a nice old R1100RS or 1100R. I routinely see those for under 4,000 with reasonable mileage.
I find my RS can do some pretty amazing things if I ask it to. I have not owned a bike that had better slow speed agility. (I have owned a few bikes)

Ditto on the KZ1000 , too. And some Guzzi's will also practically do anything. Anything a bike can do anyway.

+1 on the suggestions for course setups.

 

[beginner]

Beginner: Your upper body should be to the outside of the turn,, hence the term counterbalance.

4mary5, is drifting the rear tire in turns part of motor police training?

In the past few days I've discovered I can gently drift the rear tire in 16' diameter figure 8's (6-7mph) in the last 180 degress of the circle, before turning into the opposite circle, with throttle, steering and body weight only. Practicing it seems to create a more secure feeling on the bike all the time not just in turns. Since I'm a beginner it appears to be a beginner skill.

 

[Cyotee01]

Our school is a "no brake school"

My first post...

I haven't heard anyone suggest, but low speed control, upper body position (leaning out) and weight on the outside peg will help offset the 'falling tendency' if you don't get your coordination of throttle/clutch/rear brake perfect. When leaning out, note that it's not your shoulders, but your general mass from your stomach upwards.

Did I mention REAR BRAKE? I am an advocate of using it in conjunction with throttle and clutch feathering. It can help you control the speed. No front brake though... I agree fully on that.

The suggestions on head & eye placement I fully support. Don't look at the ground (look over your shoulder as far as you can comfortably see). If there are obstacles nearby, look at them briefly to assess and then use your periphery awareness rather than focusing on them..... You know your body will follow your eyes so never look (obstacle, ground or that power pole on the outside of a corner if you go in a little hot!

My 2 cents worth....

 

[mcxosolo]

For those of you who did not know Steve Brinkerhoff passed away last Friday 2/11/11. Gods speed Steve!

 

[5MARY4]

I had not heard. He was a class act and true professional. I'm sorry to hear this.

 

[horsepower]

Of all my days on the track and the street, the most awe inspiring and sexiest thing by far I have ever seen was an advanced CHP motorcycle training vid done on the track. Pure utter skill and perfection. It is one thing to flick around a 375 pound race bike, and quite another to do the same thing on a 850?+ pound beasty.

In fact, about a week after watching that vid, I was on 101 Northbound, moving through traffic and feeling very skilled and cocky at how well i was doing when a CHP flowed through like an Orca playing with penguins, going I'd say well over 115 in moderate traffic on his way to something up the road. Never skipped a beat.
He looked over at me just long enough to wag a "no no" finger at me-which both humbled and deflated my skill instantly- then surfed by and was gone.
I realized right then and there how little skills I really had on the road, and slowed down. :|

You guys have my complete admiration. If I do get a chance to take a CHP type course, I would jump at it. Can't get those damn links to work for me though.

 

[5MARY4]

I'm thinking about putting on a one day course in May. We put one on a couple of years ago and it was a great success. Silvr puts on a very good one as well.

ETA: Remember,, the Gov't invests a ton of money into a motorcop. First, 4 weeks of EVOC training averaging 50 hrs per week,, on a motorcycle that is expected to be dropped repeatedly, under the direct supervision of an expert instructor, then an additional two weeks on the street with a CMTO. Then we train monthly to keep those skills up. Not to mention equipment.