PSA - Practice your panic stops!

[nbean16]

I'm kind of torn between both sides in this thread. It sounds like the OP seems to have had only one option and executed it correctly, which couldn't have been done properly without practice. On the other hand, practicing quick stops makes it feel more acceptable in emergency situations, which doesn't allow for any error.

I practiced quick stops 2 or 3 Sundays ago, excessively in a parking lot. I hold no regret doing so since I never practiced them outside of MSF, although it did mislead me the following Tuesday. Out riding that following Tuesday, my mind wasn't in the turn since I had other things racing through my mind (a problem in and of itself) and I realized I wasn't going to make the extremely easy left hand turn. Instead of leaning more or following the slight veer to the right toward the dead end lane I didn't see, I chose to quick stop because I had enough room. Well, turns out I used too much rear brake and fishtailed onto my right side. 100% my fault, but what kills me is knowing I had a million better options and chose the only one that could and did cause me to lay my bike down.

You practicing stops did not make you crash. Your lack of experience did. I can absolutely guarantee you that you would have laid it down with or without the practice. You had a panic reaction that you haven't yet learned to avoid. Regardless of practice your body's natural reaction to a hazard or a tight turn is to let off gas and/or apply brake. You have to teach your body to power through a turn and not panic. You are going to have to teach your body to avoid a lot of survival reactions. But there are times to brake hard and you need to learn that too. Trust me, practicing to stop will not make you brake when you should gas. When you are practicing to stop you should be learning to use the right amount of front and rear brake together without causing the bike to lose control. Practicing this correctly enough times may have stopped you from using too much rear brake and modulate it better. Also if you are thinking of other things while you ride, it is going to cause you to wreck again at some point, guaranteed. You need to break that habit immediately.

 

[stoppie]

Practicing not panicking is the key. How can that be done is the question.

I say practice your braking skills and obstacle avoidance and keep your eyes open and always be alert, and with that ,experience is a big factor, seen this before, no panic, do what I think is best for the situation and if that don't work and crash is eminent I must do something different. The key again is not to panic and not stick to a single course of action for crash avoidance.

There is no one way out for every situation there are many ways out many times and all must be explored in a split second and hopefully you choose the right one, and if not , hopefully you are able to adapt in a split second and change course of action.

 

[Ironbutt]

Does it blend?

New riders want to practice one thing but they're missing the point of the practice. The practice shouldn't be static like they make it out to be..

OK.. 3.2.1-BRAKEEEEESSSSS!!! and now I have blinders on, all I'm doing and all i'm committed to doing is stopping, at all costs.

And opps-- Look a 18 wheeler just ran over my midsection. Opps look.. I'm stuck under a ford truck.. Opps look? Look what happened to me when I just fucking stopped like a dingbat? I GOT HIT? How that hell did that happen?

see what I'm saying? I crashed? Why? Why did I crash? I crashed cause I slowed down so fast I have little time do do much else. And believe it or not, neither did anyone else. so they hit me.

Stopping, quick stopping, "panic" stopping, on the freeway or any highway is a recipe for disaster. Not good at all.. You can't devote 100% mental energy to hauling down to 0MPH on the freeway..

Like I said; the brakes are used for transitional movements. In times of duress- devote your mental energy to 'continued movement' not "arresting your movement" .. Lest you land under an 18 wheeler.

Devote training time to BLENDING braking, accelerating, swerving.. Not just one facet.. then the other.. the stop or the go.. there are many combination of all of them depending on which you started first.

Keep your options open, keep your eyes on that 'line'.. Did my hole close??
Can I swerve? Can I slow then accelerate and swerve at the same time?

All this activity happens milliseconds of the other.

I ask now; do your skills blend?

I actually agree with a lot of what you say here and I think hard braking should be the last option, but there are times when "panic stop" is THE ONLY option and practicing them is extremely important. Learning how much it takes to lock up a wheel is important. I'd rather maybe mess up and lay my bike down in a parking lot then lay it down on the street and end up under another vehicle. I've practiced braking enough to lock up either wheel and always recovered, if you endo and crash while practicing this your whole philosophy on how to grab the front brake is wrong and it's better to learn it in a parking lot.

 

[RRrider]

Sounds obvious, but when you practice, make sure you are practicing the right thing. Repeatedly doing something wrong won't help....

IMO, as stated above, one should practice stopping as fast as possible, which means gradually applying the front brake (not grabbing it) and (depending on your bike) modulating the back brake. This builds the right muscle memory.

Now you have one more tool in your arsenal should you find yourself in a shitty situation. And a damned important one too!

Personally, I practice swerving by doing as much twisties as possible, and I practice stopping as fast as possible at least once per ride, typically before a stop sign when no one is behind me. Every now and then, I go to a parking lot as well.

In a true emergency, one reacts instinctively. Build in the muscle memory you want as that becomes your instinct!

 

[Reiterin]

And change your underwear.

Yeah, that was the first thing I did when I got to work

Devote training time to BLENDING braking, accelerating, swerving.. Not just one facet.. then the other.. the stop or the go.. there are many combination of all of them depending on which you started first.

I completely see your point here, and in your previous posts. I try to do just that. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the OP, but I didn't actually stop on the freeway - I just went from 75 to 20 mph really quickly, downshifting while braking hard, and then went around the semi as soon as I could.

I was just trying to advocate that others, especially noobs like me, should really spend some time developing good braking reflexes so that they can brake effectively when they have to.

 

[Lovedoc]

I just went from 75 to 20 mph really quickly, downshifting while braking hard, and then went around the semi as soon as I could.

Fastest and most controlled way to stop is to downshift with the clutch pulled in, not to use engine braking. For general info, maybe you alrready knew that

 

[rodr]

IMO, as stated above, one should practice stopping as fast as possible

Gotta disagree with this. Stopping as fast as possible is dangerous to practice and dangerous when a situation arises. You might slide out or endo and hurt yourself, or you might get rear-ended because you stopped faster than you needed to. Better to practice stopping before you hit the obstacle. I.e. learn how to stop within various prescribed distances at various speeds.

And as Ironbutt notes, plan also what you're gonna do after braking.

 

[Rabbtsfoot]

New riders want to practice one thing but they're missing the point of the practice. The practice shouldn't be static like they make it out to be..

Stopping, quick stopping, "panic" stopping, on the freeway or any highway is a recipe for disaster. Not good at all.. You can't devote 100% mental energy to hauling down to 0MPH on the freeway..

Like I said; the brakes are used for transitional movements. In times of duress- devote your mental energy to 'continued movement' not "arresting your movement" .. Lest you land under an 18 wheeler.

Devote training time to BLENDING braking, accelerating, swerving.. Not just one facet.. then the other.. the stop or the go.. there are many combination of all of them depending on which you started first.

Keep your options open, keep your eyes on that 'line'.. Did my hole close??
Can I swerve? Can I slow then accelerate and swerve at the same time?

All this activity happens milliseconds of the other.

I ask now; do your skills blend?

This I agree with.

Practicing under different circumstances (not just a straight line) is important, as is practicing from different initial speeds. It is pretty much universally understood in the moto safety world that braking is one of the average motorcyclists weakest skills in the saddle (maybe because few of us practice it?). That is why they all emphasize or at least cover it. The advanced MSF has you do exactly what you said above - stop when signaled in turns, swerves, at different speeds, etc.

And someday you may have to come to a dead stop on the freeway in a straight line. I did when a car decided that the best thing for him to do was to hit his brakes and swerve into Lane 1 at 8 am in the morning after someone four or five cars ahead of him rear ended someone. He landed diagonal across Lane 1 at a dead stop maybe 15 yards in front of me. I had slowed down to around 35 because the cars next to me in lane 2 weren't moving much and I was afraid that one would jump in front of me at 5 mph - didn't think some jackass would come to a complete stop. I didn't know where he was going to come to a complete stop and Lane 2 was full of cars, to my left was the concrete divider (it was on 101N near Ellis). Let's see, where to swerve, into the cars or into the concrete divider, or maybe just try to swerve between the cage and one or the other and hope that I guess right about where he will come to a stop...oh wait, maybe I'll just stop.

Sometimes you've just gotta do it.

 

[Ironbutt]

I'd suggest-- Spend time riding, just riding. Don't focus on braking to a stoppie or launches or any one thing.

Practice being in complete control; what even decision you choose, can you change lines? Can you brake? Can you do this or that immediately after whatever it was you just did.

Practice smoothness, blending hand/feet movement.. Carry corner speed, shift up a gear, do it slow-er, do it smooth.

There are times to commit 100% to a movement or decision but more often than not, you can't and shouldn't. I.E- Panic stopping

A good time to devote your 100% concentration is when riding between cars.. Hesitation is bad.. Second guessing is bad.. Flinching or getting freaked out is bad.

Riding proficiently is as much timing as it is focus, or when to focus on one thing and come back to the big picture, as it is raw skill..

I was just trying to advocate that others, especially noobs like me, should really spend some time developing good braking reflexes so that they can brake effectively when they have to.

 

[Dianoetic]

You practicing stops did not make you crash. Your lack of experience did. I can absolutely guarantee you that you would have laid it down with or without the practice. You had a panic reaction that you haven't yet learned to avoid. Regardless of practice your body's natural reaction to a hazard or a tight turn is to let off gas and/or apply brake. You have to teach your body to power through a turn and not panic. You are going to have to teach your body to avoid a lot of survival reactions. But there are times to brake hard and you need to learn that too. Trust me, practicing to stop will not make you brake when you should gas. When you are practicing to stop you should be learning to use the right amount of front and rear brake together without causing the bike to lose control. Practicing this correctly enough times may have stopped you from using too much rear brake and modulate it better. Also if you are thinking of other things while you ride, it is going to cause you to wreck again at some point, guaranteed. You need to break that habit immediately.

Thanks for the input, although I disagree with one portion of it. I actually have avoided several close calls (not proud of that fact) by looking into the turn and leaning even more and when I decided to quick stop, I ignored the better options of either leaning more to the left or veering easily to the right. In my head, I knew I practiced quick stops just days prior, so I chose that option. I don't blame the practice, but I do feel the more you practice, the more acceptable it becomes to use it in emergency situations, regardless of better options (at least for me).

 

[n8]

reaction speed + good judgement

 

[RRrider]

Gotta disagree with this. Stopping as fast as possible is dangerous to practice and dangerous when a situation arises. You might slide out or endo and hurt yourself, or you might get rear-ended because you stopped faster than you needed to. Better to practice stopping before you hit the obstacle. I.e. learn how to stop within various prescribed distances at various speeds.

And as Ironbutt notes, plan also what you're gonna do after braking.

Interesting. I don't at all disagree with all the discussion above about what to do in an actual emergency. All I'm saying is that having trained the muscle memory of how to stop very quickly into your body, gives you one more weapon in your arsenal should the situation arise. There are situations where stopping quickly is the best option, and if that situation were to arise, I wouldn't want to be trying the stop very fast option for the first time (almost definitely, you'll grab too much brake and bad things will follow).

Of course you are right, if while practicing, you push it too far, then bad things can happen as well, so another option is to avoid this practicing risk. My view is, the risk of not having the skill in an emergency outweighs the risk of getting hurt while trying to learn the skill.

But to mitigate the practicing risk, when practicing, start slowly, squeeze slowly, and gradually increase things, creeping up on the boundary. You can actually hear a squeal from the tire when you are close to the edge. You don't need to do a stoppie to stop quickly.

Instructors like Lee Parks, and Ienatsch strongly recommend practicing this skill as one of the most important, if not the most important skill. Personally, I trust them on this one.

But, suit yourself. I'm just saying what I do and why, not preaching how you should approach it.