Questions for Keith Code - Round Two

[Judaslefourbe]

Hi Keith,

I just read your article in Motorcyclist, and I must say it struck a chord in me.
I totally agree with you on getting back to the basics to build a strong base for advanced skills.
When I was a teenager I competed in Karate (did so for about 10 years). The reason I was so strong technically is that after every break I took (usually 1 month every August), I would always go back to the basics for the first few months.
The benefits I saw in doing so were that it gave me confidence, and also allowed me to better understand the advanced techniques.

Great article!

Thanks,
Lewis.

 

[Keith Code]

Hi Keith,

I have another question (maybe stupid?):
Is the throttle control affected if the turn is going uphill/downhill?
I would suspect that the balance of the bike would change from 40/60, but I am not sure if it changes enough to impact the throttle control.

Thanks.

You have to look at the individual turn to get an exact answer but the most basic point it to get enough weight distributed on both tires so you have all the traction the bike can offer. Some corners like the Corkscrew are hard acceleration because of the way it is banked, others not quite as aggressive like turn 4 at Sears Point but you still want to be on the gas to get the traction and get weight off the front as soon as possible.

Keith

 

[Keith Code]

Hi Keith,

I just read your article in Motorcyclist, and I must say it struck a chord in me.
I totally agree with you on getting back to the basics to build a strong base for advanced skills.
When I was a teenager I competed in Karate (did so for about 10 years). The reason I was so strong technically is that after every break I took (usually 1 month every August), I would always go back to the basics for the first few months.
The benefits I saw in doing so were that it gave me confidence, and also allowed me to better understand the advanced techniques.

Great article!

Thanks,
Lewis.

I couldn't say it better myself. Everyone wants to get to the 'advanced' techniques but the question you have to ask is: did your motoGP or WSBK heroes start out riding like that or did they have a ladder of techniques to climb before they could use any 'advanced' ones?

There is simply no substitute for the fundamental technical skills of riding. Weak basics, weak riding. Strong basics, solid foundation to move forward.

Keith

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Hi Keith,

I got yet another question. It is a little specific so hopefully you will be able to shed some light on it.
It is in regards to backing it in on a supermoto. Since you are supposed to modulate the clutch during the slide (which usually lasts until the apex), how are you supposed to use throttle control? Or does throttle control only apply to "RR" situations?

 

[Keith Code]

Hi Keith,

I got yet another question. It is a little specific so hopefully you will be able to shed some light on it.
It is in regards to backing it in on a supermoto. Since you are supposed to modulate the clutch during the slide (which usually lasts until the apex), how are you supposed to use throttle control? Or does throttle control only apply to "RR" situations?

I'm not sure if you've noticed that the amount of backing the bike into the corners has changed a lot since Supermoto first started. You might also notice that very little of it is being done in road racing as well.

Originally, many of the S'Moto guys had come from Moto X and Flat Track, they used the technique as a sort of carry over to the asphalt. But even in MotoX you see less of this sort of thing that you used to. Body positioning has changed quite a bit over the years even in that sport.

In the end, you have to put your attention on getting back to the throttle and don't fall into the trap of thinking that backing the bike in is going to make it all work out, it doesn't.

Keep in mind that there is a balance to how much time you want to spend sliding the bike around and the purpose of it is to get back to the gas as soon as possible not just put on a show for the spectators!

Keith

 

[abhijitz]

Keith - I have couple of questions for you (track oriented).

Background : Have done ~20 trackdays and when it comes to advancing a step (either in corner acceleration or braking) i find myself intimidated to an extent while pushing beyond. If i step back, take it slow, am confident, not using 100% of my (limited) skills, relaxed and focussed.

Here is my problem :

1. When i approach a corner, which demands harder acceleration out, i tend to do 2 very bad things.
a. coast, (since i think i will loose track by accelerating, thereby drifting)
b. input to bike steering mid-corner OR adjust body position

To ammend this situation, as i mentioned, i took a step back, completed my downshifting, then braking, and am smooth. Moment, i try to take it forward, i end up braking too late OR stabbing the brake (because i entered too hot), carrying too much brakes into the corner, and decelerating the bike to assist in turn-in (like T4/T5 Laguna, T1 Thill, T7a Infineon)

When i go back and look at faster riders from the stands OR follow faster riders, I notice how confident their turn-in is, how smooth their arc of travel is. I tend to ride faster, smoother, and confidently following them. Leave it to me on my own, and i mess it up.

How would you suggest i tackle my situation (dilemma) regards to this?

 

[darkie]

Hi Keith,

I got yet another question. It is a little specific so hopefully you will be able to shed some light on it.
It is in regards to backing it in on a supermoto. Since you are supposed to modulate the clutch during the slide (which usually lasts until the apex), how are you supposed to use throttle control? Or does throttle control only apply to "RR" situations?

Another point to consider is that in A Twist of the Wrist II in the Throttle Control section, Keith says you want to get back to the gas "as soon as possible" but that is modified by "once steering is completed".

Backing it in helps to get the bike POINTED, but because it is sliding it still has some momentum towards the outside of the turn (steering not quite completed yet).

You usually see supermoto riders getting back to throttle once the bike is finally on line, with the steering completed. Going back to the throttle too early (before steering is completed) usually causes the rider to run wide.

So the throttle control rules are pretty universal even when looking at roadracing and supermoto.

In a flat-track type scenario, which is different, you will see the riders throttle steering with the bike sliding through most of the corner.

Jeff Ward (practically the godfather of supermoto in the USA) took his son to the Superbike School for roadrace training and I asked him about the changes in supermoto riding styles. He said that while you still have plenty of "backing in", they found that keeping the wheels in line as much as possible has proven to be the fastest way around on the paved sections of supermoto tracks. He also pointed out that riders are tending to counter lean the bike less.

 

[Keith Code]

Keith - I have couple of questions for you (track oriented).

Background : Have done ~20 trackdays and when it comes to advancing a step (either in corner acceleration or braking) i find myself intimidated to an extent while pushing beyond. If i step back, take it slow, am confident, not using 100% of my (limited) skills, relaxed and focussed.

Here is my problem :

1. When i approach a corner, which demands harder acceleration out, i tend to do 2 very bad things.
a. coast, (since i think i will loose track by accelerating, thereby drifting)
b. input to bike steering mid-corner OR adjust body position

To ammend this situation, as i mentioned, i took a step back, completed my downshifting, then braking, and am smooth. Moment, i try to take it forward, i end up braking too late OR stabbing the brake (because i entered too hot), carrying too much brakes into the corner, and decelerating the bike to assist in turn-in (like T4/T5 Laguna, T1 Thill, T7a Infineon)

When i go back and look at faster riders from the stands OR follow faster riders, I notice how confident their turn-in is, how smooth their arc of travel is. I tend to ride faster, smoother, and confidently following them. Leave it to me on my own, and i mess it up.

How would you suggest i tackle my situation (dilemma) regards to this?

I know what you mean, riding quickly is multi-tasking, possibly more than any other sport.

First let me point out that each of the technical skills in riding integrate with every other one. The moment they go out of balance you hit a plateau or start thrashing with the bike. Which is what you described.

There are a couple of things that caught my attention in your note. Let's clear them up first.

When you say you do your downshifting and then your braking, is that really the sequence that you do them for most turns?

 

[abhijitz]

Yes, 90% of the time i complete downshifting and then brake... I tried the opposite and am still not comfortable with it. I thought, i will leave this part for later learning, while first trying to improve my corner entry & exit speed.

OTOH, it does happen to me sometime, that i downshift much before that am carrying engine braking into the corner slowing me more down. I have improved in this aspect since the last couple of events.

When you say you do your downshifting and then your braking, is that really the sequence that you do them for most turns?

 

[Keith Code]

Keith - I have couple of questions for you (track oriented).

Background : Have done ~20 trackdays and when it comes to advancing a step (either in corner acceleration or braking) i find myself intimidated to an extent while pushing beyond. If i step back, take it slow, am confident, not using 100% of my (limited) skills, relaxed and focussed.

Here is my problem :

1. When i approach a corner, which demands harder acceleration out, i tend to do 2 very bad things.
a. coast, (since i think i will loose track by accelerating, thereby drifting)
b. input to bike steering mid-corner OR adjust body position

To ammend this situation, as i mentioned, i took a step back, completed my downshifting, then braking, and am smooth. Moment, i try to take it forward, i end up braking too late OR stabbing the brake (because i entered too hot), carrying too much brakes into the corner, and decelerating the bike to assist in turn-in (like T4/T5 Laguna, T1 Thill, T7a Infineon)

When i go back and look at faster riders from the stands OR follow faster riders, I notice how confident their turn-in is, how smooth their arc of travel is. I tend to ride faster, smoother, and confidently following them. Leave it to me on my own, and i mess it up.

How would you suggest i tackle my situation (dilemma) regards to this?

Here is an excerpt from something that I recently wrote for my column in Motorcyclist.

We use the motorcycle’s 6 controls: front brake, throttle, handlebars, clutch, gearchange lever and rear brake to ride. There are 22 different techniques such as how aggressively or not the throttle is rolled on; how it is rolled off; how we first initiate the throttle-on action: and 19 more that contribute to smooth. Those inputs are all based on our 18 perceptions. We translate them into decisions and those decisions into control over the machine. As things heat up, ( for example, consider an end of braking/turn-entry/passing scenario with you doing the passing of 2 or 3 riders) that process can involve the coordination of all 18 of your senses and the coordination of several control inputs in as little as two or three seconds. Did I mention you might be multi-tasking…?

 

[Keith Code]

Yes, 90% of the time i complete downshifting and then brake... I tried the opposite and am still not comfortable with it. I thought, i will leave this part for later learning, while first trying to improve my corner entry & exit speed.

OTOH, it does happen to me sometime, that i downshift much before that am carrying engine braking into the corner slowing me more down. I have improved in this aspect since the last couple of events.

I'll bet when you try and up the pace you start feeling a bit rushed at your turn entries don't you?

OK. What you are doing is absolutely backwards. You are making things very difficult for yourself by doing it in this backwards sequence.

Learn how to brake first and do your downshifting a little later, mid way through the braking. Don't rely on your slipper clutch, learn how to use the brake, blip the gas and make your downshifts happen simultaneously.

If you want to see how that is done (and answer a bunch of other questions you have) get a copy of "A Twist of the Wrist, Vol II" DVD. It will show you exactly how to do this.

I guarantee you that 50% of the turn entry problems you now have will disappear once you master the technique.

 

[abhijitz]

you are absolutely right ! little steps works, as i approach further, feel am rushed & get tensed.

I'll bet when you try and up the pace you start feeling a bit rushed at your turn entries don't you?

i do not have a slipper clutch and i have learnt to match and downshift the way you are describing [i rarely experience hiccups now]. I will try what you are asking me to, Thank You !

Learn how to brake first and do your downshifting a little later, mid way through the braking. Don't rely on your slipper clutch, learn how to use the brake, blip the gas and make your downshifts happen simultaneously.

i will definitely source a copy.

If you want to see how that is done (and answer a bunch of other questions you have) get a copy of "A Twist of the Wrist, Vol II" DVD. It will show you exactly how to do this.

thats what am frustrated about. i am hoping to get this fixed.

I guarantee you that 50% of the turn entry problems you now have will disappear once you master the technique.

 

[ElDiablo]

Hello Keith,

I took your one day class at Laguna right before you switched to BMW. Now I also have S1000RR and just recently did a track day at Laguna. Your teachings made me move up from C group (which I did with you) to B+. Thanks!

Now I want to learn more. Do you recommend that I take more of your 1 day classes with my bike or do one 2-day camp? Would I learn more in 2-day camp than 6 1-day classes?

 

[Keith Code]

Hello Keith,

I took your one day class at Laguna right before you switched to BMW. Now I also have S1000RR and just recently did a track day at Laguna. Your teachings made me move up from C group (which I did with you) to B+. Thanks!

Now I want to learn more. Do you recommend that I take more of your 1 day classes with my bike or do one 2-day camp? Would I learn more in 2-day camp than 6 1-day classes?

That's excellent progress , I love to hear that sort of success. The 2-Day Camps are a lot different than the single day schools. We have 7 sessions in each day instead of 5 like you did and your coach will only have you and one other rider on track. You would do Level II on the first day and Level III on the second.

Now, if you did 6 single day schools, you already know what the format is like, you'd be Level IV after 3 of them. Unlike the first three levels, Level IV is an individual program based completely on what you need to put it together.

That's an overview, there are quite a few differences but you can go to the web site and save me the time of typing it all out again

I think you'll find our on-board video much more useful than the usual follow cam stuff. On the other hand, it works really well for our Level III drills to see yourself from behind and we use that view in the single day schools for Level III.

Does that help?

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Keep in mind that there is a balance to how much time you want to spend sliding the bike around and the purpose of it is to get back to the gas as soon as possible not just put on a show for the spectators!

Got it.
Thanks!

 

[Judaslefourbe]

You usually see supermoto riders getting back to throttle once the bike is finally on line, with the steering completed. Going back to the throttle too early (before steering is completed) usually causes the rider to run wide.

Makes things clearer.
thanks.

 

[RRrider]

pretty basic question, and maybe in the wrong place, but Keith, I'm wondering what your opinion is of taking your CSS class in the rain? Part of me says, you're taking the class to push your limits (e.g. more speed, more lean angle, etc) as well as perfect your technique (throttle control, line selection, entry speed estimation, etc). Rain is not helpful to increase your learning along at least the push your limits dimensions, but is probably irrelevant for the technique dimensions. You obviously still run the class in the rain, so I'm wondering about your thinking of the pros and cons.
thanks

 

[hitman5532]

pretty basic question, and maybe in the wrong place, but Keith, I'm wondering what your opinion is of taking your CSS class in the rain? Part of me says, you're taking the class to push your limits (e.g. more speed, more lean angle, etc) as well as perfect your technique (throttle control, line selection, entry speed estimation, etc). Rain is not helpful to increase your learning along at least the push your limits dimensions, but is probably irrelevant for the technique dimensions. You obviously still run the class in the rain, so I'm wondering about your thinking of the pros and cons.
thanks

Riding in the rain will make you more smooth.

From smoothness comes control, from control comes confidence and speed.

Speed is a byproduct of everything else being done correct, speed does not cause everything else to be correct.

Thats my 2 cents

 

[Alexey]

pretty basic question, and maybe in the wrong place, but Keith, I'm wondering what your opinion is of taking your CSS class in the rain? Part of me says, you're taking the class to push your limits (e.g. more speed, more lean angle, etc) as well as perfect your technique (throttle control, line selection, entry speed estimation, etc). Rain is not helpful to increase your learning along at least the push your limits dimensions, but is probably irrelevant for the technique dimensions. You obviously still run the class in the rain, so I'm wondering about your thinking of the pros and cons.
thanks

I'm not Keith or one of his instructors, but I'd just like to say that rain can be a fantastic tool for getting the basics right. I've come to really appreciate getting some wet riding time when learning a new track. What happens in the rain is that all the emphasis is put upon smoothness. And what's smoothness on the track? -- it's the way all your fundamentals like braking, shifting, steering, throttle come together to sing one beautiful song. But since everything is happening a little slower, your brain has some extra time to process what's happening and get it right. Translating what you've learned in the wet to dry conditions is not as tricky as it might seem.

 

[darkie]

Just a heads up for you guys: Keith is in Jerez doing some private coaching and then will be going to Donnington to work with Leon Camier at the WSB round coming up there. He may be a little late getting back for the next week or so.