Questions for Keith Code - Round Two

[Z3n]

Chris,

That is smart. It's just way too easy to get caught up in the testosterone of racing and forget that, with very rare exception, riders don't reach anything close to their potential in one season of racing.

When I began working with Scott Russell for Rob Muzzy's factory Kawasaki team in the early 90's, he was "fast" but undisciplined. Scott had been pretty much a street squid, got into club racing, had quick success for a racer beginning a career past 20 years old with no previous race experience.

That was a fun time for me. I was working with him and was able to talk Muzzy into letting him come to selected WERA/Formula USA races so I could coach him. That worked out really well but it took two seasons. The rest is world history.

Myself and our school headmaster in the UK, Andy Ibbott, have been working with Leon Camier for over 4 years. He won the British Supersport championship during that time and is now on a rocket ride superbike season.

It is interesting to see him having breakthroughs on technical skills and techniques he was exposed to years ago. Some of them never made any sense to him until this last Winter when we had him in Spain for schooling.

In other words, don't ever lose sight of the goals and don't be in a huge hurry to absorb everything. Until your technical and very basic skills are there you can't build on them, you won't progress.

Everyone is in a hurry but there are some things you cannot get by without. A rock solid confidence in yourself will only happen when those foundation pieces are there.

Keith

As a first year racer as well, I'd like to thank you for this excellent post. A little perspective, especially on the greats, really helps me feel a bit more realistic about my first year of racing.

 

[Dove]

Learn to go fast slowly. Thank you for your thoughts Keith!

 

[Ces-1]

Hope this isn't redundant.
I searched for these topics & didn't find anything so here's my question.

I bought a 07-08 R1 last June and since then I left the bike stock. I have a list of mods I plan to do to this bike, I'm sure you can imagine. I'm undecided about a few options, & I'm trying to get educated about things.

I'M considering installing lowering links in front, and swing arm extenders in back. I'm wondering how this affects ride-ability, handling/cornering, or any other changes I should expect. I love the R1 for it's agility & don't really want to change it.

Please tell me what you've experienced?

 

[Keith Code]

Hope this isn't redundant.
I searched for these topics & didn't find anything so here's my question.

I bought a 07-08 R1 last June and since then I left the bike stock. I have a list of mods I plan to do to this bike, I'm sure you can imagine. I'm undecided about a few options, & I'm trying to get educated about things.

I'M considering installing lowering links in front, and swing arm extenders in back. I'm wondering how this affects ride-ability, handling/cornering, or any other changes I should expect. I love the R1 for it's agility & don't really want to change it.

Please tell me what you've experienced?

Ces-1,

This isn't my area, you'd have to go on the R1 forum and ask those boys what you are likely to get and I have no experience with these mods.

Best,

keith

 

[Lovedoc]

Keith answered this, but actually he is an international authority on cornering techniques, and we are lucky to have him. This post would get far more replies in Garage or General. In particular, swingarm extension, fat tires and such mods are not compatible with the primary purpose of the R1 design, which is to get around a race track in a hurry.

 

[Ces-1]

Thank you to both of you. I went to r1-forum.com first and after hours, I only see one very vague & slightly rude reply. (I've stumbled on to the lowered & stretched resistance.)

I'll take your advice on going to garage, and I hear you loud & clear about how this drag racing style cosmetic change is basically truncating the r1's natural form and function.

right on for your time...

 

[Lovedoc]

Keith, I had a lot of trackdays last year, yet finished the season on a plateau, crashy and discouraged. This year I did a Level 4 again, and just a few more trackdays, but have made significant improvements. Hard to explain, but somehow the track just seems wider, and the tires seem to be talking to me a lot more. My question is how can you improve without the seat time and, well, how can a rider continue to make mental improvements and avoid plateaus?

 

[Keith Code]

Plateaus

Keith, I had a lot of trackdays last year, yet finished the season on a plateau, crashy and discouraged. This year I did a Level 4 again, and just a few more trackdays, but have made significant improvements. Hard to explain, but somehow the track just seems wider, and the tires seem to talking to me a lot more. My question is how can you improve without the seat time and, well, how can a rider continue to make mental improvements and avoid plateaus?

Lovedoc,

Wouldn't I be the magician if I could answer that straight away...

According to you, more training sorted you out, OK, we know that works. What else works? I really have no pat answer for that question.

What I know is plateaus occur because of a problem. A problem contains two components, one is locking the other up so neither one go anywhere. The two components are equal in intensity, such as fear of something, as in loss of traction, where the rider has so much attention on that they miss some other key element--importance, such as getting the throttle on but not having the bike pointed where you want it to go and nothing changes.

Looking at it like that, you can see that any technical riding point could cause any other technical riding point to more or less lock up on the rider. Plateaus can often disorient a rider because they go about trying to change a lot of things and then lose their original target.

An elementary way of sorting it out is to back off 5%, which is quite a lot when it comes to lap times, and go over your catalog of understood points: throttle control, turn in points, rate of flicking the bike, your rider input to the bike, the visual skills you've worked on at the school: the two step, three step and so on.

In the end, when you have a coach that you trust and you both speak the same language on technical riding points and you have confidence that they work, you can blow through these barriers pretty quickly, usually in one day.

In the end, there is no substitute for spot on coaching, really.

Best,

Keith

 

[budman]

Keith... just a quick thanks again.. for doing this.

LovDoc.. thanks for guiding others to proper places and keeping Keith in his element.. which is riding knowledge that only a few will ever attain.. very few.

 

[apf]

Hi Keith,

I'm going out for my second time to Streets of Willow. I think i could say that it's my favorite track thus far. I'm having trouble with turn 2, right after the slight right from T1.

Do you have any pointers on taking T2?

Thank you very much!

 

[Dove]

Keith... just a quick thanks again.. for doing this.

 

[Keith Code]

Hi Keith,

I'm going out for my second time to Streets of Willow. I think i could say that it's my favorite track thus far. I'm having trouble with turn 2, right after the slight right from T1.

Do you have any pointers on taking T2?

Thank you very much!

What sort of trouble? Entry, middle, exit, line, speed, grip, lean angle. Tell me what you are experiencing in that corner.

Keith

 

[apf]

What sort of trouble? Entry, middle, exit, line, speed, grip, lean angle. Tell me what you are experiencing in that corner.

Keith

I feel like i just can't get a good entrance into the turn. It feels like i'm not entering at the right point, which is causing me to have to readjust myself mid turn, throwing off my exit.

Currently, I come down the front straight, then downshift one or two gears and brake a few seconds after the little T1 curve, and i try to enter T2 from the top, and exit as tightly as i can to be on the right side for the T3 left hander. But it just never feels "natural".

Thanks for your time

 

[Maverik4k]

I feel like i just can't get a good entrance into the turn. It feels like i'm not entering at the right point, which is causing me to have to readjust myself mid turn, throwing off my exit.

Currently, I come down the front straight, then downshift one or two gears and brake a few seconds after the little T1 curve, and i try to enter T2 from the top, and exit as tightly as i can to be on the right side for the T3 left hander. But it just never feels "natural".

Thanks for your time

This makes me think about Turn-in (not that this is your problem, but it rose a question in mind), you talk about it in Twist of wrist and how it takes a trained racer less than a second to turn the bike with precision, while a untrained rider could take multiple seconds, It was mentioned in the book that it is quiet hard to actually lose the front from turning too quickly, how would one train themselves to turn faster and also learn to turn "the right amount"?

 

[Keith Code]

I feel like i just can't get a good entrance into the turn. It feels like i'm not entering at the right point, which is causing me to have to readjust myself mid turn, throwing off my exit.

Currently, I come down the front straight, then downshift one or two gears and brake a few seconds after the little T1 curve, and i try to enter T2 from the top, and exit as tightly as i can to be on the right side for the T3 left hander. But it just never feels "natural".

Thanks for your time

I agree, it wouldn't feel "natural", by holding the bike on a tight exit line does that create an opening or a closing radius turn?

 

[Keith Code]

This makes me think about Turn-in (not that this is your problem, but it rose a question in mind), you talk about it in Twist of wrist and how it takes a trained racer less than a second to turn the bike with precision, while a untrained rider could take multiple seconds, It was mentioned in the book that it is quiet hard to actually lose the front from turning too quickly, how would one train themselves to turn faster and also learn to turn "the right amount"?

Sorry for the short answers, I on the road on tour without a lap top.
That's an art all in itself but the only way to approach it is with baby steps, flicking the bike a bit quicker each time and noticing how much orhoe little you had to correct your lean after thr flick. Once you havo no or very little line correction after the flick in, you are most of the way there. For sure there can be other problems that crop up but that is a goog place to begin.

 

[Yody]

Keith, assuming the rider is efficient at flicking the bike or steering it quickly (for the most part). As one gets quicker and quicker do you keep the same turn in markers and just steer the bike even faster, or do you back off your turn-in points and take a little longer to get the bike steered. I feel that as I get faster I'm working way too hard on the bars to keep the same turn-in point, I've started to back off my turn in points a bit instead of wrenching the bars harder. My bike isn't the most nimble, but I feel I can be more smooth and still get a good drive on the exit by backing my turn-in points out a bit, still giving a good initial push/pull to get the bike leaned, but not always dropped all the way to max lean angle instantly.

 

[11B]

Keith,

Lots of pro's have been giving tips about throttle and gas that goes something like this; At the race track you should Always be On the Brake or On the Gas - there should never be any time in between. What's your position/advice on the above?

Also, if someone took their advice to heart what would be the best course of action when trail braking was completed before you finished setting your turn in lean angle? Seems like maintenance throttle shouldn't be applied until you've got the bike turned where you want it or you'd run wide or work overtime to stay on the same line. Maybe just enough throttle to put you around 50-60F/40-50R, then stabilize the bike, then accelerate as hard and as soon as you can?

 

[hitman5532]

Keith,

Lots of pro's have been giving tips about throttle and gas that goes something like this; At the race track you should Always be On the Brake or On the Gas - there should never be any time in between. What's your position/advice on the above?

Also, if someone took their advice to heart what would be the best course of action when trail braking was completed before you finished setting your turn in lean angle? Seems like maintenance throttle shouldn't be applied until you've got the bike turned where you want it or you'd run wide or work overtime to stay on the same line. Maybe just enough throttle to put you around 50-60F/40-50R, then stabilize the bike, then accelerate as hard and as soon as you can?

Something to think about in relation to your question...

Remember that when going through a turn, just to maintain speed, more throttle must be applied. This is caused by the fact that action of turning scrubs the speed off.

So, if you enter a turn at 70 mph and 40% throttle (hypothetical situation, arbitrary numbers) and you wanted to maintain that same 70 mph through the turn you would have to add throttle to (let's say) 45% to keep at 70mph. If you simply maintained 40% throttle, you would slow to (let's say) 65mph, killing you drive out.

Food for thought

 

[11B]

Something to think about in relation to your question...

Remember that when going through a turn, just to maintain speed, more throttle must be applied. This is caused by the fact that action of turning scrubs the speed off.

So, if you enter a turn at 70 mph and 40% throttle (hypothetical situation, arbitrary numbers) and you wanted to maintain that same 70 mph through the turn you would have to add throttle to (let's say) 45% to keep at 70mph. If you simply maintained 40% throttle, you would slow to (let's say) 65mph, killing you drive out.

Food for thought

LOL

Not to be sassy at ya but that is common knowledge, kinda up there with counter steering - plus that's a bit off topic from my question ^^. You're talking about what needs to be done to efficiently maintain corner speed/line once you've made the corner and are already turning. Besides, on the track or spirited street riding you'd probably want to apply more than 5%, after all, you don't want to stay in a 50/50 posture, more like a minimum of 40/60 (suspension works better/more stable).

I'm more curious on Keith's position on throttle control (relating to both questions) as you're trail braking and while you've already begun to turn but haven't reached full lean. I know there are times I have been trail braking all the way to my apex while applying a bit of gas at the same time to stabilize the bike and lighten up the front end.

My normal track situation is to be easy (brakes), very hard, finishing with easy trail braking while I start to turn in and then before I reach max lean angle I'm off the brakes, coasting, until the bike is fully turned and my goal lean is reached - then I stabilize the bike with a tad of throttle and slowly add more as the bike continues to rise out of the corner.

The question then remains, if someone wanted to try the advice of always braking or accelerating with no time in between what is the best way to go about it? If you apply too much throttle, including maintenance throttle before you're at max lean you unload the front, lose some contact patch, and therefore can't turn as quickly.

I'm thinking the best answer is to never mess up your braking, entry speed, or turn/apex so the second your done braking the bike is turned and you're on the gas. However, how often do us mere mortals get everything 100% right every single time? My second best answer would be to crack on as little as 1 mm of throttle which should still keep some load on the front but make the transition to further stabilizing the bike and driving out of the corner easier/smoother/faster.

Of course, my answers might be jibberish so I am asking Keith O_^.