R6 engine troubles at 10k miles;dealing with Yamaha USA

[Aluisious]

Let me just say that stuff like this is why it's good to buy Italian bikes.

On Italian bikes stuff goes wrong all the time and no one is ever surprised or disappointed.

Jap bike rider: "OMFG, there's a problem with my engine and they won't even repair it for free in the shop!"

Italian bike rider: "OMFG, there's a problem with my engine and they won't even give me a cappuccino for free in the shop!"

 

[rritterson]

I don't agree one bit as I've had a totally different experience.

Hey, if yamaha gets back to me and says the proper thing to do is shim it back into spec, well, then that's what I do. But the mechanic I trust the most said he wouldn't do it, and I'm relying on that advice for the time being.

 

[auntiebling]

I don't agree one bit as I've had a totally different experience. I bought the exact same bike, a brand new 06' R6 and here's my experience: Took it off the showroom floor in April of 07' and broke it in with three 33 mile heat cycles down to Pacifica and back. Then, I took it on a Sunday Morning Ride and for 10 more heat cycles "I let it have it to the occasional 11k-12k rpm" range(as posted limits would allow of course). Went home, changed the oil with Motul Petroleum(ie. non-synthetic)at about 200 miles. The next day, on Monday, I rode it to T-hill. With 360 miles on the ODO, I beat the living daylights out of it there with rpm's easily into the 14k range for an afternoon and then I rode home, changed the oil with 600mi (again Motul Petroleum).

Then, for the next 29,000mi I used and abused this machine to the redline with the occasional track day and the only thing I ever did was put Motul 300V and gas in the bike for 3+ years and it never drank a sip of oil, ever.(and still, to this day, pretty clean oil drains out a 2k miles).

Then, just this past fall of 2010, it was time to do a valve check at 29k miles(ya think??...LOL). Since I went well over 3000 miles past the 26,500 miles valve check (while still beating the daylights out of it on a day to day basis), I was a bit worried about what I'd find in there, (even though the bike always ran great).

The result of the tear-down?....I had quite a few tight exhaust valves and a few intakes, no biggie. (the "exact data" is at home and I can post later). It took a few times to play with some shim spacing with having to put the crank in and out because many valves had no gap at all (and if you have no gap, you are just guessing so you put a shim in and re-measure..I had to do this 3 times, not uncommon if thats the case).

Then, I put it all back together and the very next day went to the Leo Vince dyno night and placed in 3rd place with with 102.5 HP on my 3rd pull, all with a stock exhaust which was loose because my clamp was so rusted from all the daily abuse. 3rd was right behind a brand new R6 and a Honda I think.

Would I buy Yamaha again? HECK YES!!!!!! WHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Is it a LEO magnet?...ditto. Yikes!

The bike is still running strong, but is likely to see more dedicated track days after a full conversion at some point.

i don't want to deal with an engine where you have to take the crank out to set the valve clearance. FUUUUU to that noise

 

[HalfEvil]

The only Yamaha I ever owned was a '06 R6, and it threw a rod bearing within the first 300 miles of owning it.

I had a problem with my Ducati (under warranty), and I still had to play hard ball with the top North America rep for them to approve the work. (although I had the lemon law clearly on my side)

Don't expect anything to be done by the 1-800 number you call. You need to escalate it up, especially since it's out of warranty.

 

[Ironbutt]

Can I say something? hopefully not to insult anyone or anything but..

What's the big deal checking the valves? 20k intervals is insane if the bike is ridden hard; I'd expect way less than that.. more like 3500k-4500k mile intervals.. or every 2nd oil change.. these are high performance machines.. I don't give a rats ass what the manual says.. if the bike isn't running like it was.. I check the valves.

So y'all are selling your yamaha's because the damned valves are getting tight?

The engine revs to 15k RPM for christs sake???

Anyway.. I understand y'all point but don't take the intervals to the Tee.. they're not right..

 

[Johndicezx9]

Sad to say, but I'll bet Yamaha will do very little, and while I have a lot of respect for Alan and his reputation, he isn't a Yamaha dealer.

They'll probably come back with "You need to take it to your local dealer...." and the local dealer will ask you to cover the tear-down/inspect & report should Yamaha not cover with "good will" warranty. If Yamaha does cover it with any kind "good will", it would be with parts, and the work would have to be at the dealer.

 

[rritterson]

Alan already explained the whole dealer/indie mechanic/Yamaha corporate relationship, and I know that yamaha is not going to let him do the work if they step in at all.

@Ironbutt I wish I had checked the valves under warranty. On all new bikes I will do so from now on, even if it's a lot below the service interval. That said, Alan said he has dozens of customers with R6s and the valve specs are commonly still within tolerances at 26600, and of course, some are tight and below spec. But, no, not by this much so quickly, and not every single exhaust valve.

 

[elskipador]

did a clearance check and found ALL of the exhaust valves had <.002" clearance (.002 is his thinnest feeler).

not to disagree with alan, but the couple of factory/ama race motor builders i talked with didn't see a problem with the clearances being in the .05mm~.00mm. they all just said, "yeah, change out the shims to the proper clearance. you shouldn't have a problem as long as the shims are sizes in the specified range." i agree. i've shimmed lots of bikes with zero clearance, & they're, to my knowledge, are still on the road. now if the shims needed to get the correct clearances are outside of the specified range then i'd be looking a little deeper. good luck with getting any manufactor to warranty something that isn't a known problem, with hundreds or thousands of reported cases.

 

[Ironbutt]

@Ironbutt I wish I had checked the valves under warranty. On all new bikes I will do so from now on, even if it's a lot below the service interval. That said, Alan said he has dozens of customers with R6s and the valve specs are commonly still within tolerances at 26600, and of course, some are tight and below spec. But, no, not by this much so quickly, and not every single exhaust valve.

My 09 KLR had two tight exhaust valves @ 1500 miles.. And didn't stop moving for 15k miles, then they settled down. But I rode it HARD! Red line hard.. 1.55 shims right out of the box.. yuck! the seats sunk fast..

My ZRX's valves stopped moving as much after 48k miles.. The initial valve adjustment's are very important.. #1 cyl exhaust valves were wearing fast.. they were around 1.25 shims..

We just ride our bikes hard.. that's all.. Some people just toodle along never seeing hard miles and the valves never go out of spec.. <shrug>

If it makes you feel any better; the R6 I last worked on has 42k on it and every exhaust valves was tight too.. and probably had been for 20k miles..it sure ran like shit.. I can tell you that..

My EX500.. I've done two valve adjustments in the past 4k miles.. YMMV.. but it's something that has to always, always be checked.

The first time my bike doens't pop right off or I have to use throttle to get it running.. plugs and valve check.. no questions.. I just do it.

 

[CBR1000RR09]

I had a 2007 yzf R6. I am a certified motorcycle technician. At 3200 miles mine became a problem. I noticed from the time I got it a severe loss of power in the low and mid range which I discovered was just the nature of the bike. it began with the difficult starts. Would start then idle funny then die. Finally I checked compression on each cylinder. All down from the range of like 180psi-220. Mine were between 170- 180. That's when I decided to run a valve clearance check. Thirteen of sixteen valves out of spec and in need of reshimming. Pulled out camshafts and noticed lots of scarring and scratches in both the cylinder head bearing journals and the camshaft bearings. Also the tops of the buckets were marked up. Without wanted to send it to the local shop who laughed at the thought that there could be a problem. Plus the cost of a new cylinder head was way too expensive I did what I could. I replaced the buckets and the intake and exhaust camshafts. Reshimmed the valves and checked compression. All cylinders were back into the factory recommended range and the bike performed unbelievably great. I still was miffed that my brand new bike which I babies, changed oil regularly, and was barely ridden was in need of such major repairs. I decided to go to the school where I was trained to talk to some genius teachers i had. They advised me of a few things. After that I went home and began seating down as to why I had what looked like an oil lubrication issue. Pulled the pan, checked the pump, checked everything...looked perfect. Then ran an oil pressure check. It was supposed to be at like 12.5 at idle. As soon as that POS got to one hundred fifty degrees it began it's oil pressure fall. Eventually stopping at a mere 5 psi. No wonder why my motor took a dump....overtime I was at idle or warming up my bike, I was ripping the motor to shred internally because the lubrication was failing. I believe this is a result to a fault oil passage internally in the motor. Not allowing the bike to build pressure under it's own pressure. That's why when I changed oil more always came out than should have. Meaning the oil that is supposed to stay in the oil passages was not . Like a straw with a hole in it. Doesn't hold or suck liquid. Same concept. I sold the bike. Priced it to fly. I will never buy another yamaha again..

 

[Ironbutt]

These oil pumps are high volume/low pressure.. the pressure will drop as the oil warms up. <food for thought>

Revving the engine to the moon/improper warm up; when the engine and it's oil are ice cold, will do this...

I don't understand why these engine can rev to 15 thousand RPM and y'all not expect the valves to move? High performance!!!

Don't matter how many miles it has.. if it needs it, it needs it..

EDIT---> Oh yeah.. I'm a HUGE Kawasaki/Honda fan.. fuck yamaha!

I had a 2007 yzf R6. I

 

[Var]

EDIT---> Oh yeah.. I'm a HUGE Kawasaki/Honda fan.. fuck yamaha!

That's weird..usually it's Kawasaki/Suzuki.

 

[-Gilly-]

That's a really crappy situtaiton for sure. All this, "I'll never buy yamaha" talk can get a little silly though. It's not always that easy.

Replace the word "Yamaha" with "Honda", change the bike to a CRF450X and I could have started this same thread a few years ago. Seems to me all the CS of manufacturers suck bad and have for a few years.

 

[CBR1000RR09]

Ya you can rev the yamaha to 15 but then your gonna be blowing crankshaft bearings. Pick your poison. I never ran mine without the proper warm up nor did I " rev it the the moon" as u put it! Thousands of people experiencing the same problems. Everyone is wrong , I don't think so.. I think yamaha screwed up big time. And that's all there is to it! Either way when the factory says the oil pressure should hold at idle and it does not..... There is a problem. On a bike with 3200 miles and showing it's been a problem since from the begeiningl

 

[silverbelt]

What a fucking mess. Never bought a Yamaha bike before. With all the trouble you've been through with them, good thing your done with them.

 

[Ironbutt]

That's weird..usually it's Kawasaki/Suzuki.

That's because I don't know any better..

 

[CBR1000RR09]

That's a really crappy situtaiton for sure. All this, "I'll never buy yamaha" talk can get a little silly though. It's not always that easy.

Replace the word "Yamaha" with "Honda", change the bike to a CRF450X and I could have started this same thread a few years ago. Seems to me all the CS of manufacturers suck bad and have for a few years.

I agree. Its just the nature. Just like the people who have 08 cbr 1000 rr that are burning a half quart of oil every other gas tank. Every manufacturer will have their faults....I just prefer not to be a customer of yamaha again

 

[Ironbutt]

I'm playing devils advocate.. and I'm probably misinformed.. but what else is new?

Ya you can rev the yamaha to 15 but then your gonna be blowing crankshaft bearings. Pick your poison. I never ran mine without the proper warm up nor did I " rev it the the moon" as u put it! Thousands of people experiencing the same problems. Everyone is wrong , I don't think so.. I think yamaha screwed up big time. And that's all there is to it! Either way when the factory says the oil pressure should hold at idle and it does not..... There is a problem. On a bike with 3200 miles and showing it's been a problem since from the begeiningl

 

[nine_inch_rear]

I can tell ya that unless Alan at SBD is all of the sudden a Yamaha dealer, Yamaha wont give a rats ass who he is. G'luck, hope you get it all worked out.

 

[rritterson]

They'll probably come back with "You need to take it to your local dealer...." and the local dealer will ask you to cover the tear-down/inspect & report should Yamaha not cover with "good will" warranty. If Yamaha does cover it with any kind "good will", it would be with parts, and the work would have to be at the dealer.

This is so far 100% accurate. Jocelyn has said it needs to be taken to a dealer for inspection, at which point they can report it to yamaha and yamaha will see what they can do. I suspect they want to verify I didn't destroy the bike and am pulling a fast one on them, which makes sense.

Don't really have a dealer in mind I trust, though!