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Rattlesnake almosr crawled through my front door

mookiera said:
Thanks for verifying my 'ignorance' was actually correct, though maybe I didn't explain it as well as you did.
But really a lot more thanks for going into much more detail. I didn't get my info from any old wives, got a doc in the family that went through some extensive wilderness doctor training(not sure exactly what the program was).
I've seen a couple of rattlers @ my place in Mariposa in the last year.
One of them had a greenish tint to it. I haven't seen it in any Googled photos.
Any ideas?
Really, thanks for your expert opinion and doing what you do.
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You said juveniles were more dangerous, how is that correct?
 
nbean16 said:
You said juveniles were more dangerous, how is that correct?
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No, I said they 'can' be more dangerous. You gave the examples that corroborate this. In your example, the juvenile might give his all and you also said that the larger snakes do not envenomate up to 50% of the time.
Now, consider the situation I was in when my info was initially given to me.
Living in a remote location, with medical issues unknown to you, even a small amount of venom can be very dangerous for me.
You made a blanket statement that I was wrong and my info was ignorant.
I just pointed out a specific situation that is in fact correct.
Your 'ridiculous' comment was in fact, ridiculous.
 
And seriously, have you ever seen or heard of a greenish tinted rattlesnake?
 
nbean16 said:
You said juveniles were more dangerous, how is that correct?
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Uh..mook. You do realize that I didn't post this query, right.

I don't agree with your rebuttal however.

Anyway....
The Mojave Green rattlesnake, C. scutulatus, is kinda sorta green. Mariposa seems pretty North for that specie to me though. They have a neurotoxic component to their venom. My experiences with them in the field is that you step on them before they bite or strike. They hang out in the shadows and bases of shrubs and creosote. This is why I walk a fair distance from shrubs when I am in the desert. They get pretty big but not massive.

If you live far away from treatment, I suggest you search for some CURRENT snakebite treatment protocol. I used to keep a folder by the door with specific treatments for each Genus I kept to prevent being killed by some ignorant physician.
 
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DrSwade said:
Anyway....
The Mojave Green rattlesnake, C. scutulatus, is kinda sorta green. Mariposa seems pretty North for that specie to me though. They have a neurotoxic component to their venom. My experiences with them in the field is that you step on them before they bite or strike. They hang out in the shadows and bases of shrubs and creosote. This is why I walk a fair distance from shrubs when I am in the desert. They get pretty big but not massive.

If you live far away from treatment, I suggest you search for some CURRENT snakebite treatment protocol. I used to keep a folder by the door with specific treatments for each Genus I kept to prevent being killed by some ignorant physician.
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Thanks for the info.
I didn't realize we had so many varieties of rattlesnakes in CA.
 
DrSwade said:
More snake ignorance but not your fault. The wives tales surrounding reptiles are numerous.

Simply a supposition with made up numbers to illustrate a point:

If the LD50 of rattlesnake venom is 25mg and actual venom is 10mg/ml, and if a neonate's venom load is only 2ml, then it is not able to deliver a lethal dose. If an adult rattlesnake has a venom load of 5ml, then a bite from an adult has more potential to deliver a lethal dose.
Additionally, the longer fangs of adults mean a deeper delivery which is significant in the delivery of any substance into the human body.
Bite sites are also significant in the outcome of envenomations.

Having said this, it is true that as much as 50% of bites from North American vipers are non-envenomations or "dry bites". Last I heard it was something like 3-5 fatalities in the US from snakebite. Most venomous snakes in the US are very unlikely to kill a human. Anti-venin available now is wickedly effective treating snakebite.

The case of juvenile rattlesnakes "not knowing how to control their venom" is next to ridiculous.

I have been out of the research world for quite some time but last theory related to this was that adults don't waste venom on non-prey items and juveniles just bite and deliver due to their tenacity to survive.
So there could be a smidgeon of truth to this.

Another positive for most BA people is that there is only one venomous snake in Northern California, the Norther Pacific rattlesnake, Crotalus viridis oreganus. It is not considered t be a particularly toxic snake as far as California rattlesnakes go. They don't get too big either. Its SoCal brother, the Southern Pacific, C.v. helleri is a whole different matter. That one is very nasty. Small but nasty.

I understand why you killed the snakes. Concern for your family and dogs make sense for it.
I would challenge you to try an alternative Mr.Green. See if there is a rescue organization within your area. Keep a hoe and a bucket handy and use the hoe to simply scoop up the snake and deposit it in the bucket until the snake guy comes to get it.

I volunteered my time and $$ with the Sonoma County Reptile Rescue for many years. I collected dozens (probably more) of rattlesnakes and non-venomous snakes from good folks who took the time to secure the critters and call us.
It was funny that pretty much all of the calls I went to were either educated or wealthy people.
Like or hate snakes, they have a very important place in our ecosystem.
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y u know so much!!!???
 
I like snakes quite a bit, and have enjoyed most of my rattlesnake sightings...but yeah, crawling into my house, no bueno.

I grew up on a citrus ranch in SoCal, and as kids we roamed freely, so we had to learn to watch our respective steps in regard to rattlers; once you learn to be aware and not step over objects without looking over first, the danger goes down quite a bit. My dad used to blast or behead with a shovel every one he ran across (I do suppose the one he nailed that was coiled up on the garden hose and nearly bit him as he reached to water the flowers was a fair kill). I remember playing with the string of 93 separate rattles he kept over a nail on his office door. Over time, though, the load of rats, plague-spreading ground squirrels, and other pests grew to the point that it was decreasing revenue...so he fired the coyote and bobcat trapper and told the employees to leave the rattlesnakes alone unless they were a direct threat. Within five years the pest population was way down and things were all in balance again.

I did once get to fry one I killed up in batter, and it tasted more like rabbit than chicken, though with a firmer texture. Not bad at all.

Ran into this one outside Bodie on the Hawthorne Rally a couple of years ago. It had just nailed a ground squirrel. Exciting!

 
Yes, that video looks retarded. I took the advice of muting and even in silence I could see that this was pretty typical hysteria.

That snake in the vid is definitely a C. v. orgeganus. The tail is the give away, with the banding so prominent.
I am just perplexed as to why, after seeing, handling and being privy to many private collections, I have never seen this very green tinting.
Magnificent!!!
I was pretty sure that C. scutulatus wouldn't be that far North.
Southern Cal has about 5 species I can think of:
C. atrox
C. scutulatus
C. ruber
C. v. helleri
C.stephensi
and the small and cute Sidewinder C. cerastes

OK, six.
I know that I am missing one...

The Timber rattlesnake doesn't occur in California and it is known as C. horridus. Small and nasty. Have a buddy who lost a finger to one.
In hind sight, perhaps he wasn't the best guy to use when I went to him and his collection to learn the skills needed for handling Elapids. Guess I dodged a bullet there.

I any case, you folks up there will only see the Northern Pacific, C. v. oreganus.
That and Gardener snakes.:laughing
 
I can see that you are super educated in the subject of snakes. This is in no way ment to be argumentative or disrespectful. I can assure you we have 2 types of rattlesnake up here. I lived on spy rock rd north Of Laytonville for 25 years. 7 miles up a winding dirt rd at the top of the mountains. I also did heavy equipment work up there with my dad and later on my own for the entire 25 years. When you are moving earth you disrupt many species of the animal world and they go slithering and scurrying for safety. We have wicked fast little brown ones that are quick to rattle, coil and strike. Just for example if you find one that has 8 buttons on it tail it would be about 1-1.5 inches in diameter and say 2-2.5 ft long. Then we have the big green ones who are quiet and gentle. They just want to get away and only coil and rattle if teased for a few minutes. This leads to a big powerful somewhat lazy strike. If this snake has 8 buttons on it's tail it's about 2.5-2.75 inches in diameter and 4.5-5 ft long. I hope this helps your study's and if you already knew all this and I just misunderstood your post then sorry.

FWIW experts will also swear we don't have black widow spiders around here either but I can find one any time someone wants to see one.
 
Relevant?

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SuperMike said:
Relevant?

fkDNvEB.gif
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Chopped the head off one and buried it. My buddy decided he was going to try to skin the body when it quit moving.... It was still moving very slowly a day and a half later.
 
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